Tan berets and other CANSOFCOM, JTF, and CSOR fashions [1st split: CSOR]

[Recce41]

;D cute

I just find it odd that a tech in 427 will get it for nothing other than being there (no offence Pat  ) - but a Infanteer with have to undergo selection (less than SOAC and not Duey's aviation course  ) to get the hat -- kinda like Airborne Indoc I guess.  I'd make ALL the folk (esp HQ) do a little pain and torture for their hat.


 

I agree with Kevin, I have to work for mine. But the NBC Coy/427/and Bge weenies just get them. It may wearing it worthless pride. Thats just me.

 

[Good2Golf]

Recce, I'll be the first to agree with you about the PT thing - I'm a huge advocate of that.  But someone upstairs decided it wasn't necessary - so don't blame the flyers and hold resentment towards them on that sole basis.

The spec pay issue was raised at BGen Barr's brief, but has not yet been considered, so I would drop that arguement.  As far as being fat and lazy, I would take that up with the individual.  Considering the company they'll be working with, I would consider it to be a matter of professionalism to maintain a level of physical fitness, even if they don't NEED to meet the same standard.  If one doesn't, that's their personal, unfortunate issue.

Although SOA aircrew will likely retain Level 2 pay...

Working out with and seeing CO-designate of 427 SOAS run/bike/spin almost half a marathon every day (and I try very badly to keep up, only rowing 15km/day), I think it's fair to say that fitness will be stressed. 

Personally, I fully agree with Short Final, that folks should meet the applicable fitness standards that are associated with the support/operator-level they work at...

Hopefully things don't degrade into an "only the 'operators' should get to wear a tan beret" thing -- then who would qualify as an 'operator'?  Teir 1?  Both Teir 1 and Teir 2?  Whom?  ???

Cheers,
Duey

 

[KevinB]

Well I coudl concede the hat to the pliots and flight crew too -- but not the ground crew.  The Pilot and crew will be part of the mission team -- undertakign SOF missions with a correspondingly greater threat and personal danger level -- I fail to see how a clerk or tech's job changes with this assignment

 

[Good2Golf]

Well I coudl concede the hat to the pliots and flight crew too -- but not the ground crew.  The Pilot and crew will be part of the mission team -- undertakign SOF missions with a correspondingly greater threat and personal danger level -- I fail to see how a clerk or tech's job changes with this assignment

That was the logic behind it....both guys on either end of rappel were in a hurt locker if you lost an engine! 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

How do other SF units work around the whole designation thing?  Do the clerks that work for the SAS or JTF have a special decoder ring?  I'd have to lean more towards Kev's line of thinking.

 

[George Wallace]

How do other SF units work around the whole designation thing?  Do the clerks that work for the SAS or JTF have a special decoder ring?  I'd have to lean more towards Kev's line of thinking.

Perhaps they don't have clerks and Maintainers, but rely on 'Command' to provide when necessary.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I can only speak for my Inf BN by saying that all support staff where their own trade badge and element colour beret (ie navy, airforce, land etc).  So there are a few blue and black berets intermixed amoung the green.  To make them feel part of the "family" they have all been given the regimental coin.   :  Boy does that go over well.

 

[Good2Golf]

Sounds like some folks are getting unnecessarily bent over things.  JTF operators already have the dinnerplate, CSOR can come up with their own operators insignia, other groups can propose insignia they feel they want to put the effort into being approved.  I had seen a set of proposed pilot wings with a black maple leaf instead of a amber maple leaf to designate being a SOA aviator, but I don't think that went anywhere due to it being frowned upon within the air force.  Also, I see nothing wrong with everybody in the Command wearing a tan beret.  Operators of whatever specialty are compensated duly and have accessories to note qualifications.  This could very well head into the "it's just an accessory [like a ribbon], get the sand out of your body part (right Kev? )  Let's not have it degenerate into that.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[matty101]

if the tan beret is the difference between high and low moral for anyone with in the unit,that says a lot of the individual.  My guess would be that when the training starts there will be far less time to care about it and will quickly become a non-issue

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The beret and its colour can be a very obvious symbol of your special unit/ designation and so on.  Those that take and pass selection and are "awarded" the tan beret will tend to hold it in high regard as it is the representation of all the hard work it took them to get there as well as passing a difficult course.  Those same personally may come across others that are simply given the tan beret because they work there and this doesn't jive for some.  Especially if those support personal don't reflect the image a SF unit would like to have.  That being said the Armoured make everyone where a black beret if your attached to them and there doesn't seem to (although I really don't know for sure) be any problems.

 

[Recce41]

If you posted to an Armour Regt, you wear Blk, some Airforce types do wear the Bl. It is like the old Airborne. You wore the Green until, you passed the AIC, then wore the Maroon and coin.
I know in the SAS, ALL must pass selection.

 

[MikeL]

I just skimmed through the last few pages. So, non-031s willl not have to do any courses to earn the tan beret?

So, to get into the unit, you'd first have to do an Indoc type thing(2 days of testing) if you pass that you can get in. An you get to wear the tan beret. Do the troops that do the CSOR course get any special insignia to show that they've completed the course?


To bad we aren't doing something like the US does it guys wanting the 75th Ranger Reg't(US Army); to get into the Regiment you complete an Indoc course(RIP) pass that an they go into the Regiment an earn the tan beret an either a BN or Reg't Scroll(depending if they goto a Ranger BN or Regimental HQ). After getting Time In, etc you goto  Ranger School(even if you join the Reg't as a cook, you goto Ranger School) complete that an earn the Ranger Tab.

 

[painswessex]

There is also going to be a CANSOF capbadge coming down the pipe soon.

Yes there is it is half a maple leaf with half a world globe joined together and in the middle is a sabre.

 

[buzgo]

Its a commando dagger...

The capbadge is an adaptation of the JTF2 emblem, but reversed. I also hear that there will be SOF insignia for DEU - collar dogs, perhaps a command badge...

About 'earning' the tan beret. People are going to earn it in different ways. The guys who are the operators obviously are going to earn it through hard work, determination and, I would imagine, blood sweat and tears. The troops who are selected to fill other positions at CSOR, 427 or the HQ will earn it in different ways - through their technical expertise or specialized skills. Not everyone is an operator, not everyone will deploy to the FOB. It is up to the individuals (and their leaders) to make sure that they represent the SOF community well. No slugs, no plugs.

Its all about creating a Canadian SOF identity and fostering some cohesion and morale.

 

[Popurhedoff]

The "weenie's" at 427 THS have been supporting Special Ops since 1992 when they took over from the SERT.  Never then they ever worry about which color Beret they wore... but rather to carry out successfully the mission at hand... "Mission first".

We will continue to carry out our missions in Special Ops Aviation and all other tasks deemed to be within our scope of our specialities regardless of the color of our Berets.  What the Beret brings to us it too make us feel more like a part of a team,  we are all just the  sum of the parts, we all have our specific jobs... it is up to all of us to "Know our Roles"

No disrespect taken KevB,  not all of our tasks are glorified Cloak and Dagger or Walter Middy save the world missions, we know that but we have our share of "fun" as well.  Before I got posted here, even I as a Zoomie" did not expect to be doing recce's in "injin country", setting up FARP's and MRP's ... taking out teams, setting up a defensive perimeters (C7's, C9's, M79's etc) and carrying out missions (FARP's and MRP's) behind enemy lines ( exercise only so far).  We are not always back safe at camp, we do what we do.

Due to the nature of the job,  it takes the air technical trades long hours to make sure the end users have the aviation assets to complete the mission.  We do not have the time within the working day to allow for physical fitness training,  we do that on our own time.  We would also like to have from 0700 to 0900 to keep in shape  and do PT, then off to Tim's for awhile but due to our technical requirements that is not possible.

After 27 years of service still I get up at 0515hrs,  get to work by 0550hrs,  run 5-6kms with full ruck and webbing, clean up and start work at 0700hrs... usually we will get home around 1700-1900 hrs.  The day would be spent rebuilding aircraft.  Our course that is easier to do when we have parts... if not then we double our work by robbing them off of other aircraft that are down for inspections or other unserviceabilities.  The end result is the same... aviation assets (helo's) for our end users.  We do not always finish work at a preset time...assets available dictate our routines.

As mentioned by others,  each group will earn it differently, some through physical labour, others through technical abilities, some through having the necessary skill sets required.  All who wear the Tan Beret should be equally proud to be a part of a team. 
We as a part of a team must recognize who is on our sides and the who the enemy are.  To lose perspective only undermines the person, the team, and the mission.  If any or all cannot figure it out, I suggest they go down to the local tattoo parlor and get a nice tattoo of a "Dotted Line" around their necks with the words "cut on dotted line".  This may greatly aid in having your heads served to them. :-*

No disrespect to any members here living or deceased.  No animal were hurt in the making of the above statement...
"Professional drivers on closed road circuit"  ;D

Mission first.

Cheers
Pop

 

[gnplummer421]

So that was your guys hovering above my garden with OPP guys hanging out the side looking for odd colored plants

Support elements are the backbone of the Army, in addition to other agencies :-X

Nice writing skills by the way...

Gnplummer

 

[Recce41]

I just skimmed through the last few pages. So, non-031s willl not have to do any courses to earn the tan beret?

So, to get into the unit, you'd first have to do an Indoc type thing(2 days of testing) if you pass that you can get in. An you get to wear the tan beret. Do the troops that do the CSOR course get any special insignia to show that they've completed the course?


To bad we aren't doing something like the US does it guys wanting the 75th Ranger Reg't(US Army); to get into the Regiment you complete an Indoc course(RIP) pass that an they go into the Regiment an earn the tan beret an either a BN or Reg't Scroll(depending if they goto a Ranger BN or Regimental HQ). After getting Time In, etc you goto  Ranger School(even if you join the Reg't as a cook, you goto Ranger School) complete that an earn the Ranger Tab.

You'll get it until you fail the 5-10 month course. Also Canada did have a SAS Coy back in the 50s. So the Unit wearing Tan is nothing new.

 

[Jungle]

Also Canada did have a SAS Coy back in the 50s. So the Unit wearing Tan is nothing new.

The CDN Coy never wore the tan beret, or any other SAS identifiers. The CDN SAS Coy only existed for a 2-year period (1947-1949), and was founded and commanded the whole time by Guy D'Artois.
A quick historical note: Guy D'Artois had served in the FSSF, then in the SOE on the same team as Guy Biéler during WWII. After the disbandment of the SAS Coy, he went back to the R22R, and served as a Coy Commander in Korea.
All this to say, the members of the SAS Coy wore their parent unit accoutrements. The only thing setting them apart then was the jump wings, as they were the only active Airborne unit in the Army until the Mobile Strike Force came into existence in 1950.

 

[Recce41]

The CDN Coy never wore the tan beret, or any other SAS identifiers. The CDN SAS Coy only existed for a 2-year period (1947-1949), and was founded and commanded the whole time by Guy D'Artois.
A quick historical note: Guy D'Artois had served in the FSSF, then in the SOE on the same team as Guy Biéler during WWII. After the disbandment of the SAS Coy, he went back to the R22R, and served as a Coy Commander in Korea.
All this to say, the members of the SAS Coy wore their parent unit accoutrements. The only thing setting them apart then was the jump wings, as they were the only active Airborne unit in the Army until the Mobile Strike Force came into existence in 1950.

Jungle
I had seen a few photos from the late 40s-50s. It has a fellos wearing Canadian BD with the SAS cap badge and Canada shoulder title when I went up to Hereford for a visit on my Britain trip.

 

[Jungle]

Interesting... this is the first time I hear about this. I don't claim to be a definitive authority on the subject, so I may be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time... 
Thanks...