Tac Vest does not make the grade.

[HollywoodHitman]

PBI,

Sir,

I would have to say that as an infantry NCO I have spoken up on several occasions where I have felt in my professional opinion that certain concerns need addressing, whether kit or operations wise. I have subsequently been informed in person, by my CO in theatre that 'you are only a master corporal and a reservist, I can't have you making decisions or comments like that". HORSE SH**. I will, for the rest of my career never forget those words. I have come to realise that I would not willingly go to war with someone like that, or follow them, even out of out of simple curiosity. I only wish that there were more officers out there who consider themselves professionally inclined, that would listen to the genuine concerns of one of their NCO's, about equipment or operations, even though he was a rental.

That being said, I am not suggesting for a moment that the troops don't offer suggestions of how to improve kit or other things they see needing improvement. I am just wondering how well received it would be in the CF these days.........

I actually managed to personally piss off the DCDS by asking a question (being a reservist) of whether or not the CF was going to start to employ their reserve troops in more front line roles........

Anyway, rant is over,

Good day

 

[pbi]

PBI,

Sir,

Thanks, I don't think we should be saying "sir" on this site: I rather prefer that we keep something of a level playing field

I would have to say that as an infantry NCO I have spoken up on several occasions where I have felt in my professional opinion that certain concerns need addressing, whether kit or operations wise. I have subsequently been informed in person, by my CO in theatre that 'you are only a master corporal and a reservist, I can't have you making decisions or comments like that". HORSE SH**.

You are right-it is horsesh*t. Unless you were rude, stupid, or seditious, he should have listened. I was not there but the response IMHO was wrong.

I will, for the rest of my career never forget those words. I have come to realise that I would not willingly go to war with someone like that, or follow them, even out of out of simple curiosity. I only wish that there were more officers out there who consider themselves professionally inclined, that would listen to the genuine concerns of one of their NCO's, about equipment or operations, even though he was a rental.

I would truly wish to think that most worthy of their salt would. However, we cannot account for everybody and I know that we still have people in the RegF who have an extremely distorted opinion of Reservists, just as we still have some Res who hate the RegF.

That being said, I am not suggesting for a moment that the troops don't offer suggestions of how to improve kit or other things they see needing improvement. I am just wondering how well received it would be in the CF these days.........

It won't be received at all if you don't say something. If you are going to progress as an NCO/WO you had   better be able to make a strong case with officers, or you won't do your men much good. Don't give up because of one bad experience.

I actually managed to personally piss off the DCDS by asking a question (being a reservist) of whether or not the CF was going to start to employ their reserve troops in more front line roles........

Yes well ,maybe you made him think. And, by the way, the employment of Reservists in front line roles started at Medak-check the medals. I think it will only increase from here on in, esp as Canada takes note of the very heavy role of the Reserve component in OEF/OIF..

Further to this tacvest thing, you can e-mail CTS at: http://www.army.dnd.ca/Chief_Land_Staff/Clothe_the_soldier/hab/8/8_e.asp. While their site says that they don't reply to individuale-mails, I encourage anybody with a complaint about any CTS item to send it in. This would be much faster than the UCR process (although this will still happen) and it will give CTS staff "coal face" input. I have sent them an e-mail summarizing the complaints I have seen about the tacvest. Fire away! Cheers.

 

[zerhash]

lol piper,
i know youre new and youve got a good opinion on the kit. but i dont think you can truly appreciate it until you have lived with the old stuff.

 

[Redeye]

Having just come back from my first weekend using the vest, I'm incredibly impressed with the way it feels for long wear - I have somewhat narrow shoulders and with the 82 pattern webbing and ruck on it gets to be sort, a lot of shoulder hotspots, and I found no such problems rucking this weekend, even though it wasn't like I covered any great distance.  The lack of modularity is my sore point, and the fact that the entire system (with small pack, at least) hasn't been issued together.  The loss of the buttpack can be addressed by using an IPE bag or one of a multitude of private-purchase (ie Canadian Peacekeeper, Dropzone Tactical, Tiger Tactical, etc) patrol/day packs.  It just sucks buy same while knowing that at some point in the not too distant future I'm going to be issued one anyhow.

A massive number of troops in my unit own Camelbak or other hydration packs, they have opted to use those systems and ditch the canteen career entirely for 2 C9 pouches and thus more load carriage.  Works pretty good that way.

Of course, I'm just a rental, I could be wrong.

 

[pbi]

I adressed the butt-pack problem (I think....) by attaching the large blister-pouch from the small pack to the rear of the vest. Now, I'm just a pogue, so maybe its a bad idea. Cheers.

 

[HollywoodHitman]

PBI,

Thank you for the candid post.

As for the tac vest, I have found that a simple low volume small pack can assist greatly in the use and load distribution, and best of all it can be left behind for some more tricky situations. 

 

[zerhash]

seems like the wheelers nuke bag is a favourite amongst the engineer troops

wheelers has good kit however if you are going to get issued new small packs chances are you probably wont be purchasing any replacements.

as for the small pack, how exactly do they expect you to travel with it as part of your marching order? (ruck, tv, sp, rifle etc)

 

[zerhash]

lol they should make you use the old webbing and greens. have ye earn the gucci kit

at least the army isnt looking as bad anymore! we still have some pizza barret issues but at least we are using one uniform now

 

[R031button]

lol they should make you use the old webbing and greens. have ye earn the gucci kit

at least the army isnt looking as bad anymore! we still have some pizza barret issues but at least we are using one uniform now

No in BC we don't.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Personally, I like the conveniance of the tac vest.  The old but pack, you had to take your webbing off and sort through everything in there to find something..and that is especially difficult when you have a Mcpl barking at you to hurry..

The 2 utility pouches in the front are much easier to open, close, and sort my needed kit.

The only thing I can't really fit in there is my plate and cup...but when you're in the field, you eat rations anyway.

And the rain gear can go in the C-9 pouch (if you're not a C9 gunner) or you can just roll it and strap it to the back.

The TV is, IMHO, leaps and bounds better than the old webbing.  (I also heard some complaints about it only holding 4 mags....well, so did the old webbing so?)

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Lost_Warrior,

I think your handle isn't the only thing that's "Lost" here... :

Did you not bother to read this thread in its entirety, or any of the other threads that discuss at length the average combat load ammo requirements around 10-12 magazines per rifleman and the shortcomings of the Tac-Vest in this area?  Also, consider that in one of your C9 pouches you're going to be carrying an extra drum for one of your section's C9 gunners.  Then consider that in those front utility pockets you're not going to be stowing your weekend snacks like chocolate bars, gloves etc.  You're going to have a combat trauma first aid kit and field dressings in there.  And then because the tac-vest can only stow 4 magazines, you're going to need to put your other 6 mags in the other C9 utility pouch. 

Now where are you going to put your NVGs, extra frag grenades, pop-flares and any other kit that's been deemed mission essential?

While the 82 pattern webbing had its deficiencies, the whole point of CTS and the Tac-Vest was to implement a better piece of equipment, not one that creates a whole different set of problems.

 

[zerhash]

But but but...I like my gucci kit. My gortex jacket with holes in it and (a pain to wash I might add) simunition hits on it when I got it, my multi-tool with a bent tip on the blade (I think the last guy who had it tried to stab a rock with it) and my various levels of fade-ness combats. .

lol thats what happens when your enemy force is a rock... cut backs tsk tsk.

No in BC we don't.

just wait for it bud lol

i think its just making its way past ontario then it should get to you pretty soon

what pissed me off was having and the frenchies get it before us... not that i dont like french people...but... but... hell they didnt even want to be a part of canada! GIVE ME THE GUCCI KIT!! jk jk

 

[R031button]

lol thats what happens when your enemy force is a rock... cut backs tsk tsk.

just wait for it bud lol

i think its just making its way past ontario then it should get to you pretty soon

what pissed me off was having and the frenchies get it before us... not that i dont like french people...but... but... heck they didnt even want to be a part of canada! GIVE ME THE GUCCI KIT!! jk jk

I'm just bitter because it seems like the guys getting the guicchi (or couchinni in the words of my RSM) kit are the RMF's that get a nice heated fucking mod tent for ops

 

[Pikache]

what pissed me off was having and the frenchies get it before us... not that i dont like french people...but... but... hell they didnt even want to be a part of canada! GIVE ME THE GUCCI KIT!! jk jk

Unacceptable, even if it's in jest.

 

[chrisf]

The TV is, IMHO, leaps and bounds better than the old webbing.   (I also heard some complaints about it only holding 4 mags....well, so did the old webbing so?)

The TV is, IMHO, leaps and bounds better than the old webbing.  (I also heard some complaints about it only holding 4 mags....well, so did the old webbing so?)

You could cram up to a dozen mags in the old webbing reasonably easily. The old style mag pouches would hold three C7 mags, and if you took the C9 pouch off, you could put on two more mag pouches...

Or if you were a C9 gunner, you could replace the C7 pouches with C9 pouches, and carry up to three boxes.

The 82 pattern webbing wasn't great, but it was more modular then the new tac vest, not to say it was better then the tac vest, just that both have their pros and cons.

 

[Infanteer]

what pissed me off was having and the frenchies get it before us... not that i dont like french people...but... but... hell they didnt even want to be a part of canada! GIVE ME THE GUCCI KIT!! jk jk

As RHF already pointed out, we don't need that kind of stupidity around here.  If we see it again, you can count on a fast trip out of here.  Consider yourself warned.

 

[McG]

I adressed the butt-pack problem (I think....) by attaching the large blister-pouch from the small pack to the rear of the vest. Now, I'm just a pogue, so maybe its a bad idea. Cheers.

I thought about doing that with one of the 7.5 L  . . .  but I couldn't help but think that would put it up in the centre of my back.  That would be even worse than the old butt-pack when it came time to put on a ruck or the small pack.

How have you found it?

 

[jmackenzie_15]

though it isnt very good for quick access, the wheelers nuke bag (this is the best way ive found to compensate for lack of space) seems to work well.Carrying extra ammo and supplies that otherwise just cant be crammed into these TV pouches you can throw in there for the time being.It also doesnt interfere with the ballistic vests.It would really suck having to get at stuff thsi way if you needed it fast but id rather have it on me somewhere at least than not. I always had a nuke bag with the old webgear too, i put ammo and rations in the buttpack and raingear and clothes and whatever else i needed in the nuke bag, sometimes c6 ammo.Its the best I can think of for the moment.

Those nuke bags are endlessly useful.I carried my rain gear, thermal clothes, socks underwear, food, combat jacket gloves and a ranger blanket in there during Arcon04 (was a joke) without having to compromise any space on the TV.Those two front pouches on your TV you could carry a few 80mm rounds in... put the rest in... your pockets?  :
Anyway the point is, if you dont have a nuke bag i suggest you get one.Theyre worth their weight in gold.

 

[McG]

Anyway the point is, if you dont have a nuke bag i suggest you get one.Theyre worth their weight in gold.

Or wait.  The Army has already started issuing the small pack to units not slated for a tour.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Too late for me =p The nuke bag saved my a$$ from freezing to death at 4am where I was able to carry all sorts of stuff.Did i mention i had countless food items with me as well? No im not a fata$$ =p