Swine Flu argument.

[Xiang]

So now you're an epidemiologist??  I think the concern regarding H1N1 is the potential for it to become fatal, as in the 1918 epidemic

I am not an epidemiologist, but I certainly watch the news and have followed this somewhat closely.  Medical officials have clearly stated that this disease is no more contagious than seasonal flu, and those who get it (who do not have any underlying medical/immunity issues) have a near equal chance to survive as those who contact seasonal flu.  I think you may have been taken in by the hype.

As for the companies, I was referring more to US companies, not foreign ones.  Baxter seems to always be the one the US government runs to, even after their numerous scandals.

 

[Greymatters]

The virus has been elevated to a Level 5 Pandemic...

Its not conspiracy, just the way that pandemic cases are defined and categorized.  Most of the time the category is based on CFR (casualty versus fatality ratio) instead of more practical quantitative information like number of persons affected and areas affected... 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I am not an epidemiologist, but I certainly watch the news

Well that explains it!    I am more concerned with the news reporting accurately on this, not reporting anything/everything to keep a story going.  With conflicting reports and opinions, all of them "on the news", how does someone know what is/is not the facts/truth? 

Personally, I am paying attention to the emails that are coming from CF Health Services personnel via my CoC, and have put the stuff on the news into the "other/useless" file.

IMO, *the news* has gone to far from "reporting accurate information" to "reporting consistent confusion and contradictions" and I don't find them a source of information that is reliable.

 

[Another Mom]

I am curious about any new initiatives to limit H1N1 in the Forces. Where I work, they have installed alcohol dispensers and disposable face masks for people to use, but we see a lot of the public. Is there a higher rate of cold/flu in the close quarters of the Forces? Are people being asked to wash their hands more frequently or for longer periods (20-30 seconds), for example?  Just curious. 

 

[PMedMoe]

Baxter seems to always be the one the US government runs to, even after their numerous scandals.

Care to start posting sources/links instead of vague allegations?

I think you may have been taken in by the hype.

I think not.

When it comes to hindsight, it's sad to consider how many people have died due to complacency.

 

[aesop081]

When it comes to hindsight, it's sad to consider how many people have died due to complacency.

That is true. That being said, there is a fine line between justified precautions and pressing the panic button every single time. As i said before, the WHO cried wolf for SARS and Avian flu and is doing the same for H1N1. last i saw H1N1 on the news there was indications that in some areas, it had become resistant to that tamiflu drug. If this is indeed something worthy of the term "pandemic", do you think we blew our wad a bit early ?

What is the danger of yelling "panic" every time ?

People will stop listening.


Now, for you conspiracy theorists out there, consider this :

In the early stages of the swine flu hysteria, helth Canada officials were on CBC newsworld, telling people that the current flu vaccine was ineffective for H1N1 but that they should get it anyways.

So whats in the flu vaccine that the Government wants you to take in ?


I'm not a conspiracy nut but that should get a few people going.... >

 

[Edward Campbell]

The WHO has an establised, internationally approved definition of pandemic and that definitions has various levels that should guide countries re: precautions. The Director General would be irresponsible, maybe even negligant if she did not "declare" a pandemic when the defined standards were met.

My physician tells me that H1N1 and season flu are, most likely, going to so different as to require two different sets of vaccine. (Parenthetically, my physician thinks that, because of my age/general health, the seasonal flu shot is more important for me in the event that my winter travels get in the way of a timely H1N1 shot.)

I don't think anyone except the ill-informed and easily miled are "panicing."

 

[Another Mom]

I  think it is supremely ironic that when the medical system jumps into high gear to deal with an unknown and serious entity (SARS),  and if  they are successful at containing it,  people  then think it was "crying wolf".  A lot of work went into containing SARS, including building special, negative pressure isolation rooms in hospitals, triple gowning, medical people quarantining themselves away from family, etc. What happened in China, with 8 doctors dead, was lessened in Toronto, ( 3 medical personnel dead) and  lessened again across Canada exactly because of all the action behind the scenes.  But unfortunately, the Canadian public just  sees the outcome and thinks SARS was not too bad.

 

[Xiang]

Care to start posting sources/links instead of vague allegations?

They're not vague at all.  Anyone who knows anything about Baxter knows they have their nose so far up the US Governments butt that it doesn't matter how careless they have been in the past, the government runs to them first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_heparin_contamination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_International#2009_avian_flu_contamination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_International#Dialyzer_crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products

 

[blacktriangle]

So whats in the flu vaccine that the Government wants you to take in ?


I'm not a conspiracy nut but that should get a few people going.... >

It's probably a weight loss supplement for the masses.

But hey, if it turns everyone into zombies "I Am Legend" style...at least you have a plane to escape in...

 

[aesop081]

I  think it is supremely ironic that when the medical system jumps into high gear

The medical system is not capable of jumping to high gear without the WHO and every other health department big head being on TV telling people about the end of the world ? School here hasnt even started and joe six pack is starting to demand that schools be closed for the year because of H1N1. Edward, they might be ill-informed but they are in large numbers and all they see on TV is "panic". All that the medical system has given them as far as the public sees, is reason to.

I fly around alot and remember the SAR days very well. I remember the hysteria people were in. Our medical system did a great job in dealing with the situation but i'm quite confident it would have done the same great job without the WHO and other health organization feeding public hysteria.

 

[PMedMoe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_heparin_contamination

Though Baxter was first to recall heparin because of increased adverse reactions, after the contaminant was identified and testing protocols were shared with other manufacturers globally, over a dozen other companies in nearly a dozen countries issued recalls, which linked back to certain supply points in China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_International#2009_avian_flu_contamination

Though there was a risk of serious consequences, Baxter claimed the controls over the distribution of the virus were stringent and there was little chance of the virus harming humans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_International#Dialyzer_crisis

though the cause was unclear, the company issued a world-wide recall of two lines of filters, the sole common link between all the equipment used by the patients. Harry Kraemer, the company president at the time, apologized for the errors, shut down the factory producing filters, alerted competitors of the issue and took a 40% pay cut along with a 20% cut for other executives.  The company's earnings dropped by $189 million as a result of the issues. The company took quick action to reduce the impact of the event and prevent future recurrence and as a result suffered minimal damage to its reputation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products

That one I'll give you.

My source is the same as yours.

 

[Xiang]

If you're content with their life threatening, and in some cases, deadly blunders, that's fine.  But don't call them vague for the sake of a debate.

 

[Another Mom]

I would be sceptical about how the media reported any sound bites coming out of the CDC or WHO.  The media thrive on building hype. I know for a fact the media  edited and sensationalized  information that a person I know, gave them. It was very frustrating.  The CDC did not predict "the end of the world" and I would challenge you to back up this own bit of hyperbole.

And actually, there are meetings taking place, as we speak, discussing possible containment  H1N1 strategies, including school closures.  There are also earthquake and fire drills, which the fringe complain frighten the children.  Disaster planning takes place all the time and is not driven by the response of Joe Sixpack, who most of the time, ignores it.  H1N1 is the crisis du jour for the media.  Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

 

[Xiang]

I agree.  Media sensationalism is why I am taking this "pandemic" one day at a time.  I'm not breaking out the gas mask and MOP4 just yet..

 

[Journeyman]

Dammit Moe, stop stealing my thunder 

OK, based solely upon your sources (you have greater faith in Wikipedia than I, notwithstanding the changes happening to your source articles even today -- not involved in that, are you?)......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_heparin_contamination

The heparin was processed in China from pig's intestines by the American pharmaceutical firm Scientific Protein Laboratories. The company harvests heparin from pig's intestines in Changzhou City, China and supplies the crude heparin to Baxter Travenol.

Looks like SPL is the culprit, not Baxter.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_International#2009_avian_flu_contamination

In early 2009 supplies of unintentionally contaminated vaccine material with Influenza A virus subtype H5N1 provided by Baxter International were sent to a series of European laboratories[18][19]. The deadly H5N1 strain was mixed with the less harmful H3N2 subtype of the seasonal flu virus, and was detected after it killed test animals in a lab in the Czech Republic. Though there was a risk of serious consequences,[20] Baxter claimed the controls over the distribution of the virus were stringent and there was little chance of the virus harming humans.[21]

Yep, guilty....but hardly worthy of "the sky is falling" efforts in this thread.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baxter_International#Dialyzer_crisis

On August 15, 2001, two elderly patients in Spain died within hours of receiving dialysis from Baxter products. Eventually 51 more patients would die; though the cause was unclear, the company issued a world-wide recall of two lines of filters, the sole common link between all the equipment used by the patients. Harry Kraemer, the company president at the time, apologized for the errors, shut down the factory producing filters, alerted competitors of the issue and took a 40% pay cut along with a 20% cut for other executives.[13] The company's earnings dropped by $189 million as a result of the issues. The company took quick action to reduce the impact of the event and prevent future recurrence and as a result suffered minimal damage to its reputation  [...except in the mind of one army.ca poster, apparently] 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products

Contaminated haemophilia blood products were a serious public heath problem in the late 1970s and early 1980s. These products caused large numbers of hemophiliacs to became infected with HIV and hepatitis C. Companies involved included (1) Armour Pharmaceutical Company, (2) Bayer Corporation and its (3) Cutter Biological division, (4) Baxter International and its (5) Hyland Pharmaceutical division and (6) Alpha Therapeutic Corporation.

By my count, Baxter is merely one of six companies or subsidiaries involved.


The evidence you've provided does not support your premise that Baxter is some singular, evil empire which owns the US.

Media sensationalism is why I am taking this "pandemic" one day at a time.  I'm not breaking out the gas mask and MOP4 just yet..

Ah, seen. Cherry-picking Wiki to justify your dorm-room rant against Baxter is laudable, but the media lacks crediblity here? Got it.

Say, you don't own stock in a Baxter rival, do you?




oh, and it's MOPP (Mission Oriented Protective Posture) by the way....

 

[Another Mom]

You don't need a gas mask.You do need to wash your hands thoroughly  (20-30 sec) and often, cough or sneeze into your sleeve instead of your hand, refrain from touching your nose, mouth and eyes and stay away from sick people. Again, more, logical action is better than ignoring everything because of the media hype, which sometimes does have the benefit of getting people's attention.

 

[mariomike]

"1976 swine flu story swung from fear to farce":
http://www.thestar.com/comment/columnists/article/627097

 

[aesop081]

The CDC did not predict "the end of the world" and I would challenge you to back up this own bit of hyperbole.

You know damn well that i am not quoting anyone but, IMHO, that is the message that is making it to the masses, like it or not.

And actually, there are meetings taking place, as we speak, discussing possible containment  H1N1 strategies, including school closures. 

Of course there is meetings and planning going on. It would be irresposible not to plan. Thats not what i was getting at. My point is that it is possible to prepare for emergencies without feeding public hysteria. The panic in my area is fed by nothing more than ignorance. People here have already demanded that schools be closed this year despite the fact that there has not been a single reported case of H1N1.

Health authorities need to manage information and the media better.

 

[Xiang]

The evidence you've provided does not support your premise that Baxter is some singular, evil empire which owns the US. 

The evidence I provided was never intended to paint Baxter as some singular, evil empire that owns the US.  I provided information on scandals Baxter has been involved in in the past, as requested.