Soldiers sacked over drug taking (BBC News)

[Yrys]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/6384709.stm

Ten soldiers from a Scots regiment are to be dismissed from the Army after failing drug tests.

The members of the Royal Scots Borderers, 1st Battalion the Royal Regiment of Scotland tested positive during a random test this month.

Army bosses have not disclosed the nature of the drugs identified, or the ranks of those who failed.

A total of 441 soldiers took part in the 5 February test at the Borderers' Dreghorn Barracks in Edinburgh.

The Army has a zero-tolerance policy towards drug-taking, with the majority of soldiers found to be taking them instantly dismissed.

 

[geo]

Ahhh....
The other interpretation of Zero tolerance....

I am in agreement that leaders MUST do something immediately upon detection BUT dismissal might not be the only alternative.  The CF policy of C&P is from a humane perspective, the better route to follow.

 

[1feral1]

I show no sympathy for anyone caught what these idiots were doing.

No excuses, no exceptions. Illegal drugs are simply that, and I would not want any user in my Unit period!

Drug abusers/users are weak, dangerous and unreliable, and with lives literally in the balance, I show no quarter.

Discipline by example.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[geo]

Not 100% against your views Wes... but there are a couple of instances I have been party to where C&P was the proper way to go..... regardless.... the CF has it's policy & have to follow party line.

Point being.... never pass a fault!

Chimo!

 

[Yrys]

Drug abusers/users are weak, dangerous and unreliable.

Doesn't that depend of the person/type of drug/quantity used ?

I was at a party a few years ago, and noticed a lot of going in and not much
out of a bedroom. Curious, I went in, and saw a lot of people smoking pot
that I would never have believe as users. Some of them told me that they
were very casual users, only taking it some of the times when it was offered...
As I didn't show any outward emotions that I know (wanted to learn more of who
was using, I was so shock!), I don't think they had any reasons to lied to me.

Take those people out of regulars pot smokers, I think most of them will stop using it.

Shouldn't sometime it be a case by case approach ?

 

[niner domestic]

Here's the thing about Canadian law on controlled and illegal drugs Yrys, you're at a party, some of the guests light up a joint, it gets passed around, it's your turn and your give it a pass because you personally don't do drugs. You stay at the party and all of a sudden the police come knocking because of a noise complaint, they see/smell the drugs and bust everyone at the party. On the way to the station you think, this is not a problem, I didn't smoke anything so I'll go home soon.  In your interview with the police, you tell them that your didn't smoke anything but was there when the joints were brought out and passed around,  The police confirms with you that you knew and understood that the joint contained a substance that was considered a street drug and your respond in the affirmative.  The police then read you your Charter rights, and charge you under the Controlled Substance Act for being in possession of an illegal drug. Why? Because you knew it was an illegal drug, you stayed in the area as it and therefore you were in possession of it.  Your only defence to that charge is that your either left the party, or had no clue that there were drugs there.  But since you didn't leave, and you thought in your own defence that claiming you didn't smoke the joint was enough to get you a ticket out of the station, the Crown now has a confession and statement of guilt.  Have a nice day in court. 

As for the Brits and their interpretation of zero tolerance, they have always been strict with their regulations, there was a time that simply not believing in God was a way to get punted or winning the pools got you punted as well as you were not allowed to have more money than what your wages were in a year (same went for an inheritance),  you could drink yourself stupid, but if you did drugs, you were gone.  One of the big reasons for the strict rules was preventing any member of the Armed Forces from being in a vulnerable position to be blackmailed or being in the position to have their tie of loyalty questioned.  With the demise of communism and the step down of the cold war threat as well as a fragile peace in NI, those overarching requirements of the members have been relaxed with perhaps one or two regulations such as drug use being still held in a strict sense.  The brits aren't as touchy feely about individual based rights as we here in Canada are. 

 

[Yrys]

I never thought that if police went in, saying that I didn't smoke would get me a free
pass, as I knew what was going on (even if it take me so long that people laugh
at me). If I quit before they went in, if they had wanted to know who knew, are you sure
I had get a freebie ? (not sure how to use  the time verbs)

Édith: I presumed that if they had enter when I was in the ''is it going on here now?''
phase, I would have been accused too.

One of the big reasons for the strict rules was preventing any member of the Armed Forces
from being in a vulnerable position to be blackmailed or being in the position to have their
tie of loyalty questioned.

Very good point.

 

[3rd Herd]

As for the Brits and their interpretation of zero tolerance, they have always been strict with their regulations, .....  One of the big reasons for the strict rules was preventing any member of the Armed Forces from being in a vulnerable position to be blackmailed or being in the position to have their tie of loyalty questioned.....  The brits aren't as touchy feely about individual based rights as we here in Canada are. 

One of the more interesting piece's of "why thee should not do drugs" was a British film showing the effect on a seaman, an acid trip and missloading a live for a practice round. Mind you it was from the dinosaur/cold war days. As Geo points out there have been successful rehabs through C&P. Most of the cases I am aware of involved the so called soft drugs, pot, hash, etc. However, with anything chemical it was a long stay in DB and dismissal. Given that were are more and more involved in actual conflict rather than exercises I agree one hundred percent with Wes. Another way to look at it is:

Drugs are grown if it turns out to be either pot or herion in Afghanistan. Money from the sale provides funds for purchasing weapons. Weapons are then used on units currently in country causing deaths. If the drugs can be proven to have come from Afghanistan hang the dealers for treason.

 

[orange.paint]

Most of the cases I am aware of involved the so called soft drugs, pot, hash, etc. However, with anything chemical it was a long stay in DB and dismissal. Given that were are more and more involved in actual conflict rather than exercises I agree one hundred percent with Wes.

Actually hard drugs are treated just as lenient.I had a guy who came in with me who was a addict.Pure and simple.He did anything and everything majoring in Coke.They gave him 2 chances I.E 2 failed drug tests.All the loser coke heads that got caught in IIRC 2003 not one got the boot.1 "retired" as the parade program said. :Retired Tpr.
The rest are currently on JLC,on tour as troop leaders gunners and some coming on ARCC.

I cannot speak for everyone's regiments,however the RCD are weak in discipline when it comes to drugs.They shot themselves in the foot when these kids got caught.All the SSM's and OC's had parades the next morning and very vividly yelling out the "ZERO F***ing percent" "WE WILL KICK YOU OUT" followed by out CO and RSM later that day.
"You will not see some of your peers here after Christmas"(as it was the 21 December,last day of work).

Then we seen nothing happen.
I even heard one young guy say "well I guess we can smoke dope now."Discipline was lacking in this department from our (the soldiers)point of view.

I personally don't give a rats *** if some one does this shit at home or wears a teddy bear outfit all weekend.Personally I hang out with a very select group of people who I know are solid.We don't do coke.

However I believe if your caught your gone.Do we have a discipline system anymore?Never hurt any of the guys who got caught.There all Afghanistan vets,with courses coming out their ....you get the point.

This angers me to no end.However why are only the JR ranks getting tested?As in the above test?I would pee in a cup anyday.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

I think this all came about after that cell phone video of the coke party in the shacks leaked onto the internet a week or so back, it showed the scots doing lines and loudly encouraging others to do so, all while acting like freeking lunatics.

 

[orange.paint]

??? ??? ???
I'm RCD.Our big bust happened in 2003,mens christmas dinner.Do you have a copy of that video?That's fucking hilarious!Not only are they coke heads their stupid.

 

[CADPAT SOLDIER]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=12733_4207