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"So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 2002 - 2018

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Yo Moody,

Props for watchin my back homie.

Life on the Helo side is totally sick. Dude, we go backwards and forwards up and down dog. Those suckas on the seized wing side are totally wack. Word.

Apologies for the hijack.

Pipstah is right- Why can't we just get along.

Ninja, (totally sick nic by the way), it is kind of like arguing which victortia secret model is hotter--- imagine her head on that body.
 
omg that's awesome!!  Bograt, you just really brightened up my day with that.
 
NINJA said:
Just my take.  ;)

When you have more than one community under your belt perhaps you would have something to compare your views with.  ;)
 
This thread seems to be straying from the topic, namely, questions about becoming a pilot; let's refocus the discussion. 

There are no bad flying jobs, but there are certainly disgruntled pilots.  Students that are not prepared to go to any type of airframe are setting themselves up for disappointment at aircraft selection time and there are some pilots who let this disappointment sour their entire respective careers.  Selection is based upon three criteria, the first and foremost being the exigencies of the CF.  Next is demonstrated student performance and third is student preference.  Student performance includes academics, flying, and officer development.  Additionally, there is an effort made to be equitable to the gaining communities by distributing the slots as evenly as possible across a course – each course is divided into thirds based upon overall performance.  The top student usually gets her or his first choice (always depending upon the needs of the CF), and then the selection board attempts to fill the other slots by drawing equally from the top, bottom and middle thirds.  The only issue that muddies the water are the fast jet slots; unlike ME or RW, there are minimum flying marks required to go fast jets, particularly if the candidate is going to proceed to fighters vice staying in Moose Jaw as an instructor pilot.  This requirement usually sees the fighter slots going to those in the top third or the top portion of the middle third which, in turn, means that the student distribution is not truly equitable.  Additionally, no student will be forced to go fighters, i.e. Phase 4 in Cold Lake; however, students that have demonstrated the prerequisite ability may be sent fast jet to receive wings on the Hawk, with the intent to have them remain in Moose Jaw as instructors.  Students are not forced to go fighters – Phase 4 and the subsequent Hornet OTU are extremely demanding and, without the motivation to succeed, virtually impossible to pass.  Previous experience makes no difference to aircraft selection except in those cases where students come to pilot training from other classifications or trades.  For example, if it serves the needs of the CF to send a former infantryman to TacHel, a former Navy officer to Sea Kings or a former C-130 Navigator to C-130s, then that will likely occur, regardless of the individuals desires.  Personal circumstances also make no difference to the selection process, i.e. a spouse's career, parent's medical condition, personal property obligations, etc., cannot be taken into consideration without making the process unfair to the other students.

Not all students remaining in Moose Jaw as instructors earn their wings on the Hawk.  Because of anthropomorphic limitations, a certain percentage of students can fly the Harvard II, but not the Hawk.  Additionally, some students destined to remain in Moose Jaw as instructors, have been loaded onto a modified advanced Harvard course, which will see them earn their wings on that aircraft.

Portage Phase 1 bypasses are not necessarily a good thing.  Military pilot training is aptitude and performance based; students must meet milestone standards throughout training within flying hour limitations.  If they cannot, they fail.  Civilian pilots can keep flying as long as they can keep paying.  Students who have completed one of the Canadian Flying College courses that impose strict standards usually do well in Moose Jaw.  Those that receive a bypass based solely upon flying hours have more mixed results.  Usually, previous experience masks aptitude until something new is introduced, such as low level navigation portion.  Prospective CF student pilots with previous flying experience can fairly accurately predict their performance at Moose Jaw by looking in their respective log books.  If qualifications were obtained at or near the minimum possible times, the aptitude to succeed in Moose Jaw is probably there.  If it took an individual significantly longer to attain quals, his or her learning curve / aptitude is likely going to be a limiting factor in military flight training.  The wildcard in this is self-assessment is the continuity of the civilian flying; if the person could not fly frequently enough to prevent a lot of time from being dedicated to review, he or she has to honestly consider how well training would have proceeded if it had been possible to fly more often.

From the friends I have seen go to the airlines, whether their background was fighter or heavy did not seem to be that significant a factor.  Over the years, I have heard all sorts of stories about who gets picked up the most – ME or fighter pilots and neither group seems to have a clear advantage.  It's true the ME pilots log more hours, but the fighter pilots log more flights and virtually all of the time is hands-on as AC.  The ME pilot has experience in a crew environment, but the fighter pilot's role as a wingman, element or section lead puts many of the same ticks in the box with respect to crew coordination / cockpit (or inter-cockpit resource management).  Bottom line, a pilot coming off of several tours of fighters is just as likely to get an airline job as a pilot of the same age coming off of the same number of tours flying ME aircraft.  Helicopters are another story all together – there are lots of really good commercial RW jobs, but the jump to an airline is difficult without fixed wing time.
 
fightergator said:
Not all students remaining in Moose Jaw as instructors earn their wings on the Hawk.  Because of anthropomorphic limitations, a certain percentage of students can fly the Harvard II, but not the Hawk.  Additionally, some students destined to remain in Moose Jaw as instructors, have been loaded onto a modified advanced Harvard course, which will see them earn their wings on that aircraft.

AFAIK, the first and only course (so far) that graduated from the Phase IIB Wings Course graduated on 25 Jul 08 (they were 5: 2 that were directly selected for that, 3 that got pulled the Hawk course after the 18 Apr 08 crash).  I'm not sure (or haven't heard anything to that effect) if anybody else is going that road now.

Good post fightergator.  It pretty much sums it all up!!
 
Orange Quotes are Bograt's

NINJA said:
1. Cold Lake It's what you make of it.

Agreed.  However, some are easier to make good. 

NINJA said:
2. Cold lake en Francois I'd much rather take 3 Wing than Cold Lake

Agreed.  Bagtown is a very decent city IMHO (maybe that's because I'm French)

NINJA said:
3. It is a old air frame. What isn't in the Air Force

C-17s? EH-101? Incoming J-Models? Incoming Chinooks?

To answer Bograt's comment, Old doesn't mean incapable.

NINJA said:
4. Because the BS doesn't stop after CYMJ.

There's BS everywhere.  Just different kind.  Just gotta find which kind you don't mind ;)

NINJA said:
5. Demographics - There are a lot more older guys going through the pipe- with wives and kids who don't want that lifestyle.

True, very true.

NINJA said:
6. 410 Nothing wrong with that sqn as far I'm concerned.

NINJA:  Maybe on a tech point of view, but on a 410 student point of view, it's the thing we see as the hardest course of all and the most demanding.

Bograt: How many people told you how Moose Jaw was crazy and impossible and oh, so hard.  It may be hard, but what isn't in life that will get you something?  IMHO, if you have the motivation and you got that far, you should be able to make it through.

NINJA said:
7. There are many hipper jobs (are kids these days still using the word hip- I'm so old) for guys with wings. If flying a fighter plane isn't hip, I don't know what is.

NINJA:  Not everybody likes the idea of flying jets, just like not everybody likes the idea of flying a helo.  It comes back to preferences.

NINJA said:
8. Better flying in the helo world How so?

Again, depends on what you're after. 

NINJA said:
9. More flying in the helo world.Our fighter jocks get more than enough hours to make them sick. We don't have too many drivers sitting around the sqn right now waiting for serviceable aircraft.

NINJA, that's probably true that fighter guys get less hours than helo or multi guys. 

Bograt:  I'm sure that if you compare logbooks, you have the same number of lines filled out (ie: same or close to the same number of flights).  Fighter flights are just shorter.

Cheers!

Max
 
Who are you, and what have you done to SupersonicMax?  ;D

To add on to the question of who gets what slots, many times the pilots with the exceptional hands and feet will go helos, simply because of the extra controls involved -- we actually use our pedals for something other than to taxi.  Just like the guys that have a great analytical mind, can work well on their own, can think fast on their feet, and are not easily stressed will be sent fast air.  I've also seen guys who have been great at both, are very social creatures, get along with everyone, and have the patience of Job, who get slated as instructors.

There are so many factors involved in the selection of who goes where, and it's not always obvious to the students.  On my course we had a former Nav instructor who ended up getting helos.  He was right pissed, as all he wanted was ME.  But he made the decision to tough it out at least until his first flight and then decide if he was going to go back as a Nav.  Well, he ended up topping the course (beat me by .5% for the spot!  :rage:  ;D ) and is now teaching at 403.  Another on the same course made sure everyone knew he was pissed at getting helos, and by the time he realized it wasn't all that bad, he was failing so bad he couldn't recover.  He had the ability to pass and do really well, but his attitude sunk him.
 
Strike said:
Who are you, and what have you done to SupersonicMax?   ;D

I'm a hairy Frenchman and I haven't done much, I must say ;)  But I like to listen

Strike said:
To add on to the question of who gets what slots, many times the pilots with the exceptional hands and feet will go helos, simply because of the extra controls involved -- we actually use our pedals for something other than to taxi

Peddlless?  I can't spell that word.  Other than taxi?  God, I don't even use them for taxi... :P
 
SupersonicMax said:
Peddlless?  I can't spell that word.  Other than taxi?  God, I don't even use them for taxi... :P

Jeez, I pitty the servicing guy that parks you.  ;D
 
SupersonicMax said:
NINJA:  Maybe on a tech point of view, but on a 410 student point of view, it's the thing we see as the hardest course of all and the most demanding.

I sure hope it's demanding.

Peddlless?  I can't spell that word.  Other than taxi?  God, I don't even use them for taxi...

If I ever have to park you sir, I'll be sure to leave a ground chalk out there for you. Just aim for it for with the nose wheel and you'll be fine. :D
 
Max,

You know what I say usually is in jest. I hope this link insipres those who wish to follow your footsteps ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BzU1sYPjzo

 
SupersonicMax said:
Good!  I was in your shoes 10 years ago and I got my CF pilot wings last month!  Don't let anyone tell you you can't, because it's not true. 

You WILL need a degree of some sort (any degree) to become a pilot in the Canadian Forces.
You have a few options:

1-Do your degree the civy then apply for pilot;
2-Apply for ROTP (Regular Officer Training Plan) for pilot.  Basically they pay your education (degree) and give you a salary while doing it then you go on pilot training.  Your degree can be at RMC or somewhere else.
3-Do your flight training the civilian way at an accredited school then apply in the CF under the CEOTP (Continuous Education Officer Training Plan).  Basically, once you're enrolled, you have 9 years to complete your degree (in anything, pilot training doesn't count towards any degree).

I personally went option number 2 and went through RMC.  It took me a total of 8 years, 1 month and 8 days to get my wings (from enrolment)

Any kind of flying will be a LOT of work, lot of thinking and will be dangerous. Every aircraft the CF operates are quite more complicated than the typical small charter turboprop that you will find at your local airport.  The training isn't easy (far from there) but it is very challenging.  But you are right, fighters are quite more space restricted than multi or helos.  However, everybody has to go through the Harvard II which is somewhat small as well.
 


Good, I did my Glider Pilot License in 1999.  Never got to do the PPL, I enrolled before... At age 16.

Never heard anything like that.  I've been involved in aviation for 13 years.

You will need to compete against quite a bit of people.  You need good marks but not incredibly high marks.  Lots of people in my year were in the mid-70s and got accepted at RMC.  The pilot trade is also very competitive.  I'm not sure if they select people with their marks.

Never heard of ANY exception because you were cadet.  It may help you get more points on the board, but it won't give you a free pass.

Max

Hey Thanx Max for all the info. Sorry it took so long to reply, school started and i forgot about Army.ca and my post.

Another thing which is getting in my way is my eye sight, I wear glasses but mainly because my Right eye is lazy and therefore blury. Would i require Lazer eye to be able to become a piolit in the CF? or its a no-go whats so ever? Aswell as sight, my French is basically at the bottom of the pit, and as i have researched, to graduate as an officer (ROTP) you need some functionality within that field. All i can basically say in french is "Hi", "Yes", "no", and "May I use the bathroom?". Ha ha, sounds funny but hey! it got me thorough Grade 8 :P, and if it wasnt for my crazy nice teacher in grade 9, I would still be working on it, But you did say it took you 8 years and a bit to complete it. Would i have that much time to get my french up and working? or is it 4 years at school, and I must be finnished by then, and then i am sent off to serve for another 4 years?
 
Another thing which is getting in my way is my eye sight, I wear glasses but mainly because my Right eye is lazy and therefore blury. Would i require Lazer eye to be able to become a piolit in the CF? or its a no-go whats so ever?

New vision standards came into effect in 2007.  You are allowed a max of 20/60 in both eyes.  Laser is now an option as well, but you do not need to get it.

Would i have that much time to get my french up and working?

At some point before you are commissioned, you need to be fluent in both official languages. So you will probably end up taking up to 7 months of second language training before you finish your degree.
 
Corey Darling said:
At some point before you are commissioned, you need to be fluent in both official languages.

Bad gen alert - there is no requirement for any french language proficiency for your commission or for the pilot trade.  The only people that need to be highly functional in their second official language are those of the french persuasion.

If training time permits - you may be sent to a sentence of approximately 7 months at the language school in Quebec.

The Airforce is entirely English - the international language of aviation is English.
 
Corey Darling said:
At some point before you are commissioned, you need to be fluent in both official languages. So you will probably end up taking up to 7 months of second language training before you finish your degree.


hmmm, I don't think so!  Last I heard, you didn't need any profile.  You need BBB to be promoted to Maj (and even then, you can be temporarily promoted to Maj without BBB.  You loose your promotion after a while if you don't get your profile though.)  BBB is NOT fluent.  It's merely functionnal.
 
ya i keep hearing that i need a bit of french to graduate as an officer from RMC, but fluent for Major and up :warstory:
 
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