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"So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 2002 - 2018

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Good day all. I am currently applying as a DEO pilot (completed aircrew selection in Trenton), and while hoping for great things, I would like to take this time to look further into some scenarios where the unintended happens (as they say, hope for the best, plan for the worst). This is for my own sake, and my parents are also understandably worried, so I am trying to educate and prepare myself and them for different outcomes along the way.

I understand bits and pieces of some of this information may be scattered around these boards, but I thought it would be a good idea to 1. Get the most up-to-date information, and 2. Bring it all together to create a resourceful thread. I hope this will pick up and serve as an informative source not only for myself but also other candidates like me. On to the questions:

What are the more recent flight training timelines? It seems people have all experienced different timelines over the past few years. How is it looking these days? Is the system fixed, or backlogged again?

What are the recent failure rates from all 3 phases of flight training?

What happens to candidates that fail at any phase? Are they free to discharge back into the civilian world? Or are they obligated to stay and serve out the contract? Can they choose to stay willingly and train for a different RCAF trade? Or even an Army or Navy trade?

As pilot medical standards are high, what happens to pilot's career if he is no longer able to meet the medical standard to fly, either during training or service after wings? Can the pilot keep his rank and train for a different trade, e.g. ACSO or something else entirely? Or is he assigned to a desk for the balance of his mandatory service term? If he's further along in his service and a desk job becomes his only option, can he attempt to pursue a promotion to a higher rank, more responsibility, etc? At the end of the day, can he still be of useful service instead of liability?

Age. I am turning 28. Not old but not as young as I could have applied. I've read lots already that age is of no concern career-wise as long as you are still healthy and can still "hack it". (I imagine fighter stream would probably be an exception though, as I understand it's very taxing on the body, and younger bodies tend to be more suited. Not that anyone should bank on becoming a fighter pilot given the odds of it, but just saying.) My concern is more in terms of things like family life and CF career balance around this age. I am single now, and I imagine first several years would be dedicated to intensive training and frequent change of location, landing myself somewhere in mid-thirties with the likelihood of still being single. From experience, any words of advice on career/family balance around this age?

This is all I have so far. Feel free to add more questions and answers. All advice welcome, especially from the experienced pilots. Thank you all very much.
 
infantry-better-than-you.jpg


Just saying, you should probably consider us if the whole pilot thing doesn't work out hahahaha

In all honesty though, you should probably stop worrying about all the "what ifs" and just get on with it.  You want to be a pilot then buckle down and do it and stop worrying about failing. 
 
Try reading this:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/12744/post-53756.html#msg53756

and this:

http://army.ca/forums/threads/103289.0.html
 
Gunshark said:
This is for my own sake, and my parents are also understandably worried.....
Put their minds at ease; just assure them that however this plays out, you will be moving out of their basement.  :nod:
 
Hahah RoyalDrew, nice post. I'm thinking very positively!! But I do think it's responsible and prudent to be informed about negative outcomes as well (ah, my parents would be so proud to hear me say that!).

George, thanks, I've read these before but I'll go over them again to refresh my memory.

Journeyman, I already did move out a couple years ago. Hmm.. Maybe they're worried about me having to move back in!
 
Gunshark said:
Hahah RoyalDrew, nice post. I'm thinking very positively!! But I do think it's responsible and prudent to be informed about negative outcomes as well (ah, my parents would be so proud to hear me say that!).

George, thanks, I've read these before but I'll go over them again to refresh my memory.

Journeyman, I already did move out a couple years ago. Hmm.. Maybe they're worried about me having to move back in!

In short, if you wash out of Pilot training you can be remustered, depending on what's available.  No one here can tell you what's definitely going to happen as what trades are available change all the time.
 
Gunshark said:
What are the more recent flight training timelines? It seems people have all experienced different timelines over the past few years. How is it looking these days? Is the system fixed, or backlogged again?

They were long, then short, now people are telling me they are up a bit but still reasonable. I guarantee you it will change again by the time you get there. The real wait now is after flight training.

Gunshark said:
What are the recent failure rates from all 3 phases of flight training?

PFT failure rates are all over the board (over the years I've seen everything from 0% to 50+%), but the average failure rates for the rest of training is around 10% for PhII and PhIII. Every course is different though, sometimes everyone passes, sometimes failures are higher. There are no quotas or anything like that to worry about though, if they offer you a job, there is a cockpit for you, and if you meet the standard, you will pass.

Gunshark said:
What happens to candidates that fail at any phase? Are they free to discharge back into the civilian world? Or are they obligated to stay and serve out the contract? Can they choose to stay willingly and train for a different RCAF trade? Or even an Army or Navy trade?

As a DEO, you won't owe any obligatory service until you get your wings, so a failure up to that point gives you the option to either switch trades or release. When I went through flight training, the only trades available for failures were artillery and combat engineer, so needless to say those guys got out. Of course it has changed since then, and will change again by the time you get in.

Gunshark said:
As pilot medical standards are high, what happens to pilot's career if he is no longer able to meet the medical standard to fly, either during training or service after wings? Can the pilot keep his rank and train for a different trade, e.g. ACSO or something else entirely? Or is he assigned to a desk for the balance of his mandatory service term? If he's further along in his service and a desk job becomes his only option, can he attempt to pursue a promotion to a higher rank, more responsibility, etc? At the end of the day, can he still be of useful service instead of liability?

Depends on the nature of the issue, if you could potentially regain your medical you could work a ground job while on a temporary medical category. As for whether you will let you out of obligatory service if you are permanently unfit to fly, I honestly don't know the answer to that one.
 
Hey GunShark,

I have been lurking these forums for about two months now in spite of the thought of becoming a pilot. A little information, I'm 21 years old and in my fourth year of a computer science degree. From what I read on these forums, people who want to become a pilot are usually the ones who have went flying before or had this on their 'to-do' list since they were a child. I'm assuming the people who have shared their stories on here have made their decision on flying early on and have been set on it. Myself, I have been playing with the thought of becoming a pilot for the last four years.

If you don't mind pitching an answer in, what got you into flying? How do you know that you will enjoy the military lifestyle and more so, enjoy flying (assuming you have never controlled an aircraft before)? I'm planning to take a flight lesson or two just to see if I like flying but I'm finding it overwhelmingly difficult to choose a career that I don't know if I would be good at or even enjoy. Watching videos on military life, the pride in being in uniform all excites me but as others have stated on this forum, not everyone is fit for the lifestyle. If I happen to apply and get a spot but ended up not liking it, I would feel terrible I took a spot that someone else may could have taken.

Another interesting trade is aircraft mechanic (sorry. don't have the exact name with me at the moment). I believe I'm good working with my hands but I have only dealt with building and fixing wooden projects. I have no idea if I'd like to fix aircraft's or more so, if it would be over my head. It's something that looks intriguing but I wouldn't know if it is by reading online.

Your input would be most valuable since you're an applicant I can relate to. Also, from the questions I have seen you post around, I believe we have the same mindset for questions.

Cheers,

Ali
 
Thank you Dimsum and bradley247. Not that it is my intention, but is it possible to voluntarily release from CAF before getting winged, if one happens to firmly dislike it for whatever reason? Again, this is just for information. Thanks.
 
I have been lurking these forums for about two months now in spite of the thought of becoming a pilot. A little information, I'm 21 years old and in my fourth year of a computer science degree. From what I read on these forums, people who want to become a pilot are usually the ones who have went flying before or had this on their 'to-do' list since they were a child. I'm assuming the people who have shared their stories on here have made their decision on flying early on and have been set on it. Myself, I have been playing with the thought of becoming a pilot for the last four years.

I think you are in a good spot to get into it. You are young and about to finish your degree. Your degree is of technical nature which, although not mandatory, may only reflect positively on your application. Yes, from talking to pilots, I'd say there is a fair share of people who dreamed of doing this from birth. It's a popular childhood dream to have, right up there with policeman, fireman, and the like. However, having not dreamed of this from early age does not disqualify you from going into this career by any means. And believe me, you're not alone. My flight instructor (I have a few hours in a Cessna) was an electrician for about 10 years, before he decided to become a pilot and started flying in his late 20s. A couple of guys in my aircrew selection group were around my age (27) with no flying experience, and going for it. Everyone has a different life path and some people don't find their calling until later on in life. It's not uncommon. Sounds like you have been thinking about it for quite some time now, so it seems to be a conscious wish, and not something you decided last night after watching Top Gun.

If you don't mind pitching an answer in, what got you into flying? How do you know that you will enjoy the military lifestyle and more so, enjoy flying (assuming you have never controlled an aircraft before)? I'm planning to take a flight lesson or two just to see if I like flying but I'm finding it overwhelmingly difficult to choose a career that I don't know if I would be good at or even enjoy. Watching videos on military life, the pride in being in uniform all excites me but as others have stated on this forum, not everyone is fit for the lifestyle. If I happen to apply and get a spot but ended up not liking it, I would feel terrible I took a spot that someone else may could have taken.

I was not happy working at an office and so I started considering a different career path. After thinking of some alternatives, I remembered how I was always drawn to airports and always had great fun flying. Getting on a plane to go somewhere and passing by an open cockpit on the way to my seat, I would aways be intrigued by what happens on the flight deck. I did some research on civilian and military pilot career, and the military choice appealed to me more because it seemed to have more challenge, variety and reward to it. So I decided to go to the recruiting centre and chat about it. Then I applied.

I can't know 100% that I will enjoy the military lifestyle until I try it. But from what I know about the military, e.g. through conversations with serving members (including on this site), I expect/hope I will enjoy it. I like the idea of discipline, challenge, even PT. The idea of camaraderie, and doing your part to bring positive change to people in need. I understand the possible geographical and other limitations of military life but I don't expect they would be a factor for me personally. You'd have to figure that part out for yourself since you know yourself best.

It is definitely a great idea to go up flying a few times if you are not sure if you would enjoy it. I have a few hours and I know by now that I enjoy it. Don't get discouraged though if you can't keep up well on your first or even first several flights. When I first got into an airplane and watched my instructor, I was wondering how anyone can have capacity to do this. Then after a few hours I started doing most of those things myself, and it felt rewarding. The learning curve is steep and you have to do many things at once. But once you start getting it, it feels pretty great.

Another interesting trade is aircraft mechanic (sorry. don't have the exact name with me at the moment). I believe I'm good working with my hands but I have only dealt with building and fixing wooden projects. I have no idea if I'd like to fix aircraft's or more so, if it would be over my head. It's something that looks intriguing but I wouldn't know if it is by reading online.

I believe there are a few technician (NCM) career options linked to the aircraft, and a couple of engineering (Officer) options. The fact that you're about to have a degree will qualify you for an Officer position, although I'm not sure you'd be able to be an engineering officer without an engineering degree. Most likely not, but that's something to check. But you can be an NCM technician. You can get started reading about jobs on forces.ca, and the salaries are also available online.

Your input would be most valuable since you're an applicant I can relate to. Also, from the questions I have seen you post around, I believe we have the same mindset for questions.

It's a good idea to educate yourself, but in the end, it's not possible to predict everything. Sometimes you just have to go for it and keep a positive attitude. Let me know if you have any further questions. Welcome to the forum.
 
Ali M said:
I'm planning to take a flight lesson or two just to see if I like flying

While there is certainly nothing wrong with doing this, it is not likely to do anything useful for you either - unless you discover that you are horribly prone to airsickness and barf non-stop from take-off to landing.

Puttering along in a little Cessna is far removed from the sort of thing that one ends up doing as a military Pilot.

I started towards my private pilot licence when I was fourteen, but gave up after a few lessons because it was both boring and expensive. Flying a Kiowa tactically, "skids clear of ground and one-half rotor diameter from vertical obstacles" (our tactical limits), was anything but boring.

You'll never know if you'll like anything about this job until you try it. And don't worry about taking a slot from somebody else who could have used it because you are unsure. The system accounts for that - not everybody makes it through for a variety of reasons, and "that" person will get his/her chance regardless. So long as you apply with honest intent, and do your level best, nobody has valid reason to complain about you.

If we restricted entry to only those completely sure, we'd be sucking for applicants.

You are better off applying, and finding out for certain, than not applying, and wondering/regretting for the rest of your life.
 
After you get winged, what is the "standard" career progression? How many flying tours? How many desk tours? What's the timeline like? When can you start flying the desk (as either Captain or Major if you qualify for promotion) if for some reason you tire of flying? What kind of duties do you perform as a non-flying Captain or Major, and do your hours and location become more stable that way? Thanks!
 
I could write several pages discussing all of the variables that can affect every person's individual career, but I shall not.

Two words, instead, will suffice: It depends.
 
I understand, of course.

However, if someone in the know could provide examples of non-flying pilots' duties later down the road, that would be very interesting to know. Thank you.
 
100's of possibilities - but to name a few:

1)  EA to a Comd
2)  Staff Officer at an Army/Navy/Air Force Unit
3)  Staff Officer at an Army/ Navy/Air Force HQ
4)  Staff Officer at a NATO/UN/Foreign HQ and/or Unit
5)  Embassy Staff
6)  Liaison Officer anywhere in the world

Pretty limitless eh?
 
Do these questions represent critical factors in a decision-making process?
 
SF2 said:
100's of possibilities - but to name a few:

1)  EA to a Comd
2)  Staff Officer at an Army/Navy/Air Force Unit
3)  Staff Officer at an Army/ Navy/Air Force HQ
4)  Staff Officer at a NATO/UN/Foreign HQ and/or Unit
5)  Embassy Staff
6)  Liaison Officer anywhere in the world

Pretty limitless eh?

My CO at CFRC was a Pilot as was one of the MCC's.
 
Crantor said:
My CO at CFRC was a Pilot as was one of the MCC's.

SF2 meant to include, "Staff Officer at a CAF joint or departmental HQ."  ;)
 
Loachman said:
Do these questions represent critical factors in a decision-making process?

I would not say critical, and all service is service. But it is interesting to have a general sense of what kind of life may await a pilot should he/she no longer fly for whatever reason, but is not yet ready for retirement. Cheers!
 
Gunshark said:
......what kind of life may await a pilot should he/she no longer fly for whatever reason......
Intelligence, Public Affairs, Training Development....or if you switch to the Reserves, there's a whole fascinating world of 'Influence Activities.'


Those who lump them together as inhabiting the "Land of the Misfit Toys" are just jealous; don't let them dissuade you.  ;)
 
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