Saving Private Ryan/Band of Brothers

[Fader]

I‘ve never been especially fond of Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers; although they both did have thier moments, just the whole "War is a one sided video game" setting both movie/series seems to have really bothers me. I mean, maybe if the Germans sent in thier Comm Reservist to the front line, it would be the case, but in both movies, there always seems to be the general trend that:
-Americans either have some sort of magical implant in thier eyes that makes them have perfect aim, especially when firing full auto from the hip or that they have some sort of high tech "Kraut seeking" bullets that home in on all Germans when fired in thier general direction
-Germans are unable to fire thier weapons until they‘ve ran head first into a line of Americans that are firing at them; and when they do, the only time they can ever hit the Americans is if they are firing full auto at a whole bunch of them standing close together.

I don‘t know, but not having watched Saving Private Ryan in about a year, I decided to watch it today (I skipped all the parts where blind nationalism is used to make the fallen soldiers seem like martyrs). I finished watchign Band of Brothers a week ago, and I couldn‘t help but have some questions, that maybe the combat arms people might have the answers for, like:
-If you fire 50 rounds from a machine gun, say an MG42 commonly used in the German army during WWII, do you have to change the barrel?
-If you‘re rushing a machine gun nest, do you and 7 others run in closly grouped pairs at it‘s flanks and straight towards it until it has to change it‘s barrel then throw grenades at it?
-Don‘t the section attacks we are supposed to do in the CF envolve working in pairs of sections, squads and teams, offering suppresive fire so that one pair is always fire, and one pair is always advancing, until the section (or what‘s left of it) is close enough that one team can toss a ‘nade into the trench and run in, unloading an entire mag full auto at any survivors.
-If you‘re doing urban combat, do you run into a city in large groups along the the sides of streets? When the guys in front of you start taking fire from machine guns, snipers, etc, do you and everyone beside you run to where they got shot or do you try to find where the shots came from, and eliminate them before proceeding
-Is hitting two seperate target at 100m semi/full automatic very easy to do when firing at the hip?

I have more, but I have class in half an hour. I‘ll post them when I get back

 

[DnA]

in SPR, the germans were portrayed quite poorly in some parts, especially in the final battle in Rammel?

having a Panzer moving around in combat, an not being locked up

an 55+ W-SS soldat‘s, with 2-3 tanks, an armoured vehicle(Kzsomthin), 20mm, an panzerschrecks, couldent take out 12 US soldier‘s, that were low on ammo, an such


anyways, moving on to Band of Brothers
this is based on true events

and the germans looked more effective in BoB

some things may not have looked possibly, like the paratroopers reppeling an attack of 9th SS I think it was, with panzers an 6th Fallschirmjagers Reg? soldats, but it happened in real life

it‘s hard to say how realistic these things are, since no one here was ever there to see


some things that seem unrealistic in combat, have happened, from what I‘v heard from Combat Vets

 

[Redneck052]

...they were movies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The protrayel in the movies were to give us an inventation to witness what it MAY have been like. Not what it WAS like. To compare the tactics of the Americans to Canadians is fruitless. If we were able to show what it really is like in a firefight, no one would ever go back to see the movie.

A German general once said, that he feared a Company of Canadian Infantry, far more than a Regt of Americans. Because he knew the tactics of the Americans, and the Canadians seemed to have no doctrine.

When you watch the movies again, just remember. The Victors always tell their stories.

 

[BestOfTheBest]

ITS JUST A MOVIE!
THERE ARE CIVILIANS IN THIS WORLD WHO NEED ENTERTAINMENT, AND DONT ALWAYS THINK THIS AND THAT
just take it easy and enjoy life :blotto:

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Saving Private Ryan‘s battle scenes were a joke; why anyone would take time to dissect them is beyond me.

The simple fact that an MG42 was left in a dug in position with no one else around for miles (notice they have time to bury the dead afterwards - so where was the rest of the German company? A lafette mount for the 42 was a pretty important piece of company equipment just to leave behind) is proof that the whole thing was a poorly done cinematic device.

Equally cinematic would have been to have Miller risk taking his squad through a minefield to save time, and having the Medic get killed. No goofy Steamboat Willie, no awkward questions about tactics, and it still serves the purpose of creating the conflict between Reiben and Miller.

The Ramelle fight was even sillier, with the Tigers apparently missing armoured glass from their viewslits and ammo for their bow and coax MGs, which never fire, or the sections of SS infantry without their MGs.

I shall stop there.

Band of Brothers, on the other hand, was as close to a masterpiece as we are likely to see for some time, in the depiction of small unit cohesion and actions, and yes, it was based on true events.

Bear in mind the physical settings were compressed - look at the documentary WE STAND ALONE TOGETHER and look at the shot of the real town of Foy, then look at the set used in the BoB episode, and you‘ll see what I mean. It had to be that way for cinematic reasons, but still gets much closer than anything I‘ve ever seen on film.

SPR was not about military tactics, though, it was about making an emotional and visceral connection to what the guys in WW II went through, and on that level, it‘s been more successful than any other film I can think of.

As for "blind nationalism", I didn‘t see that in SPR at all; rather a tribute to that greatest of generations who espoused everything Lui does not - self sacrifice, devotion to duty and to others, and clear purpose of mind.

 

[Infanteer]

Redneck, I heard that story once, however it was a Soviet General who said it...probably another one of those urban legends that seem to float around the CF.

Mike, yet again, another accurate post. I think fault can be found at the Normandy landings at the beginning too (although I think the scene was lauded for the raw energy it conveyed). Anyone who knows the story of Omaha Beach knows the Rangers didn‘t make a quick 15 minute breakthrough.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Exactly; the story would have been more concinving had Miller been in the 4th or 5th wave. Now that would be a scene I‘d like to see - to be told you‘re in a follow up wave, have the doors open, and look out onto a beach choked with soaking wet, terrified, weaponless guys scratching for cover, surrounded by hundreds of bodies and parts of bodies. Again, though, it‘s normal to compress events in order to make it work cinematically.

 

[Thaedes]

Regardless of the inherent flaws in a cineamatic movie with regards to portraying realism, SPR I believe was a good movie anyways.

I‘ve never been able to track down BoB, I really want to see it. I‘ve been a fan of war movies for a while, at least the ones that are paying some tribute to the fallen soldiers at the battles. And Tom Hanks had a fairly large hand in the making of BoB so it should at least be as good as SPR.

 

[ninty9]

Everyone should own Band of Brothers.

Do yourself a favour and go out and spend the $100. You won‘t be dissapointed.

 

[holywars33]

Niney9, you can get the BoB DVD’s for super cheap off ebay…I got mine for 55 buck new.

I agree that BoB is a masterpiece and yes it does potray American’s as victors and hero’s. However the point of the whole series is that camaraderie and reliance that forms among soldiers in those types of situations. “…and they relied on each other” right off the front of the tin box.

However I would have to disagree with some of the episodes, particularly Bastone and Foy that it appeared that E company was the only one there.

 

[Gunnar]

I‘ve heard the doctrine complaint as well...but I heard it as not that we have no doctrine, but that we have a wonderful, detailed and thorough doctrine...that we don‘t follow.

Study the answer book and it doesn‘t help. That would be annoying...