Sailors don't wear CADPAT direction by CANFORGEN

[Edward Campbell]

...
My personal view is, if I am working in an office then DEUs should be the dress of the day. Why do I need to wear operational clothing sitting in an office? I am not working out in the field or on a ship where I need it. Chances of me having to hide behind a plant in the office is slim (except when I screw something up) or having to fight a fire or plug battle damage. Plus now with being able to order new DEUs it's never a problem to keep my kit in good repair.

The Army and Air Force in my office are miffed right now because we do have to wear DEUs. This means no more wash and wear. They have to actually put an iron to their clothes and polish on their boots.
...

BZ!

+300 Mil Points

 

[gcclarke]

The way I see it, there's two main issues. Firstly, at the HQs of the various Dot Coms. Yes, they probably should be wearing DEU, but when the LGen or VAdm decides that your dress of the day should reflect an "operational focus", I don't have a problem with that. But sailors working in those commands should at least be able to reflect a naval tinged operational focus.

And then there are other places that are both non-office environments, but are also not in "the field". Places like warehouses and workshops where the wear of DEUs are, frankly, rather inappropriate. Again, in accordance with the CANFORGEN, those sailors working in those environments (who are entitled to or already have NCDs issued to them) should be wearing them.

As for wear in the office, that's a bit of a no-brainer in my opinion. In the office, most sailors should probably be wearing DEU, but if they're not, they sure as heck shouldn't be wearing CADPAT en lieu.

 

[armyvern]

The one thing I saw with ArmyVern's post was that Purple people did not get their chioce of element. I'm not sure what went on severasl years ago but since I've been in recruiting everyone gets a choice of element. If there are no positions in the elemnt they chose then they will be asked if another element is ok. If they say yes then that's where they go. If they say no they only want a certain element then they will wait for an opening.

I'll clarify for you:

One of the two was posted to Halifax when DEU CiF, the first & only non-Army posting of his career; he didn't get a choice - he was "assigned" the naval uniform because he was posted to the navy when the DEU CiF.

The other of the two was asked which enviornment he preferred - he stated land. AF was well over-strength at that time, and land was at-strength. He was therefore offered Navy and took it because he was "purple" and could go work with the Army anyway given that he is "purple". With this CANFORGEN - he wants to be identify with the Army because that's what he wanted in the first place and that's where he's always served.

Myself, I was aked too for a preference (I chose Land); but, I was given blue. I never knew I was slotted "AF" (I was CF)until I was issued thos DEU during my QL3s. I started writing memos to change my DEU as soon as I saw & became addicted to the red ink that my Master Seaman (my first posting was with the navy) was writing all over everyone else's memos. It took me 6 hard years of trying, and I finally had to tell them that I'd pay out of my own pocket to purchase Army DEU, before that message from NDHQ came through authorizing me to switch to land. It was a happy day for me.

Your comment about those not wanting to iron uniforms everyday is ohhhh so true. Should have heard the bitching from the AF and naval folks who had to iron and do boots every night during QLs and leadership courses while we Army folk could spend time out drinking etc ... likewise, I've had many a sailor and an airman/woman (back in the day when both of those still wore workdress) who absolutely welcomed the respite they got from wearing their enviornmental uniforms and thus didn't have to do ironing every day/night; they were quite happy to be able to throw on combats each day.

I rue the day I am posted to HQ and get to wile away the hours doing footwear and DEU every day ... I think that's what parades are for.

Edited to add: And, now that I'm an MWO --- crusty old me will ensure that all my personnel in future will have ample "parading" opportunity just to ensure that ironing & boot-polishing skills are kept up-to-date.  > Just kidding folks, just kidding.

 

[CallOfDuty]

  Seeing the new  NCD's that the navy types have been wearing lately seem to be pretty good to me.  They have the cargo style pants, and the Canadian flag on the shoulder is a nice touch.  Quite military, as compared to the older ones. 
  Just my opinion.
Cheers

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The "mall cop" pants?  ;D

 

[NavyShooter]

Actually, the pants were described to me as being the same ones used by the Military Police.

NS

 

[Edward Campbell]

Actually, the pants were described to me as being the same ones used by the Military Police.

NS

Which makes them "mall cop" pants, right? 

 

[BlueJingo]

From what I read, Even more so now that he's confirmed it! LOL

 

[CallOfDuty]

yup...I think the mallcop pants are better than the old ones .  It's Peanut-Blart and jelly time!...peanut-Blart and jelly time!!!.......
  Thats from Paul Blart. Mall cop. lol.

 

[gwp]

I'm wondering if the Navy's own scale of entitlement has anything to do with some sailors not yet being seen in NCDs.

IAW their own SOE, we can't issue NCDs to anyone not posted into a Naval-owned Posn, thus - there's a whole lot of purple sailors in Army Units (or Air Units) who've never been issued NCDs, nor do they have any current entitlement to be issued NCDs.
......
Anyway, until the Navy amends it's scale of entitlement (which are issued, authorized and in effect on authority of the CDS) - I can not issue NCDs to any pers of the Naval enviornment who is not posted into an establish "Naval position".

That is being questioned and checked by the Formation Chiefs. 

 

[armyvern]

That is being questioned and checked by the Formation Chiefs.

I had my tunic down to clothing the other day, so I asked what it read. I haven't seen the scale myself for 2 years, but recalled that it used to read the entitlement for those posted into naval posns.

If it's not changed yet, an update done 1st thing tomorrow should show up on the scale as they are usually updated versions on Fridays. Once it's updated, a message from the scale OPI to all Clothing Support groups would make them immediately aware of the change in entitlement, and one to all SupOs reminding of the recent CANFORGEN may see both the change of policy and the "new entitlement" being distributed 'up' the CoC from the lower level.

When I was the CSG supr, I'd always bring up scale changes during the weekly O Gp, noting to whom the change was applicable and why; that way it (the info) got distributed back down via the CoC to those entitled and their CoC were aware of the authority and no one was walking about in the dark.

I did the same thing when "OD undies & T-shirts" became exchangeable years ago ... and we had a rush in clothing stores a couple of days later because the info was passed on like it should have been. Apparently, it was passed on to everyone except Technoviking because he freely admitted on this site a few days ago that he's been walking around in dirty undies since he was originally issued them circa 2000 having only just learned of their exchangeability.  >

 

[Halifax Tar]

I'm wondering if the Navy's own scale of entitlement has anything to do with some sailors not yet being seen in NCDs.

IAW their own SOE, we can't issue NCDs to anyone not posted into a Naval-owned Posn, thus - there's a whole lot of purple sailors in Army Units (or Air Units) who've never been issued NCDs, nor do they have any current entitlement to be issued NCDs. Perhaps, the top acted without consulting the bottom to ensure the Admin was in place down here where crap actually happens to make (or ensure) this CANFORGEN implementation actually doable. It wouldn't be the first time ...

Also, am aware of two "Navy" purple people who've since submitted requests for change of enviornment to Land since this msg was cut. Seems they are among many purple people who didn't get their choice of enviornmental uniforms (because, let's face it - one joins the CF, not the Navy or the army or the AF) but figured what the hell because they were a "purple" trade anyway and serving in the Army where they wanted to be ... but now, want to be in the uniform of the enviornment they prefer because it will now be making a difference to them.

Anyway, until the Navy amends it's scale of entitlement (which are issued, authorized and in effect on authority of the CDS) - I can not issue NCDs to any pers of the Naval enviornment who is not posted into an establish "Naval position".

That little tidbit may have a whole lot to do with what's occuring (or not occuring in this case) too.

Vern I think you may be incorrect here. For all Naval DEU personnel are issued an initial SOA for Naval dress at basic which is there's to keep and care for for their entire careers. I think you may be getting confused with an order many moons ago that stressed the shortages of NCDs and restricted their issue to only sea going positions. This was also back in the day when we in the navy had our work dress too, remember that postman blue shirt and black polyester pants with the sweater you could wear with it.

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that any Naval DEU personnel are entitled to the initial issue of NCDs as it is our environmental work dress now.

 

[armyvern]

Vern I think you may be incorrect here. For all Naval DEU personnel are issued an initial SOA for Naval dress at basic which is there's to keep and care for for their entire careers. I think you may be getting confused with an order many moons ago that stressed the shortages of NCDs and restricted their issue to only sea going positions. This was also back in the day when we in the navy had our work dress too, remember that postman blue shirt and black polyester pants with the sweater you could wear with it.

I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure that any Naval DEU personnel are entitled to the initial issue of NCDs as it is our environmental work dress now.

Purple Naval pers have not always been afforded the opportunity to retain their NCDs upon completion of Basic Trg. This may have been the case for hard sea trades, but not purple trades of your enviornment. I'm still not sure it is the case for purple people who wear the navy uniform. Much like hard army trades kept army op kit when they departed St Jean - not so army purple types (and not even most hard-army types these days due to shortages).

CFSAL kitlist used to read for Navy pers reporting to QL trades courses that daily dress while attending course was "Naval Operational dress" for naval envir pers. We had to advise CFSAL that our pers coming on course would not be wearing NCDs as they had zero entitlement to them - having not been allowed to retain (because they were not hard sea trades) once they left St jean, nor did they have any current entitlement to them having served with the Army for the past 3 years (never in a Naval owned posn). This was with the new dress.

Naval pers from all over Gagetown would show up at clothing looking for NCDs when proceeding on career courses - and we'd have to turn them down each time due to their lack of entitlment. We had to advise CFSAL that their placing an item on a kitlist did not an entitlement to it create...

I had to tell some of the LF schools the same thing regarding some of the items they put onto their own kitlists ...

I think I'll try to hunt down an avail computer demain matin and get to the scale sites to download to ascertain if/when there has been a change for myself.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Purple Naval pers have not always been afforded the opportunity to retain their NCDs upon completion of Basic Trg. This may have been the case for hard sea trades, but not purple trades of your enviornment. I'm still not sure it is the case for purple people who wear the navy uniform. Much like hard army trades kept army op kit when they departed St Jean - not so army purple types (and not even most hard-army types these days due to shortages).

Operational kit (IE Rucksack, webbing etc etc) Is different than one's daily dress. Unless you are hearkening back to the days of Work Dress/Base Dress/OP dress then I think you may be mistaken. For the OS Sup Tech who leaves St Jean for Borden will retain the NCDs for that will be the DOTD while at CFSAL.

CFSAL kitlist used to read for Navy pers reporting to QL trades courses that daily dress while attending course was "Naval Operational dress" for naval envir pers. We had to advise CFSAL that our pers coming on course would not be wearing NCDs as they had zero entitlement to them - having not been allowed to retain (because they were not hard sea trades) once they left St jean, nor did they have any current entitlement to them having served with the Army for the past 3 years (never in a Naval owned posn). This was with the new dress.

This in my opinion is just laziness on the members part. Such as all Air and Army personnel retain the CADPAT while employed on ship (But wearing NCDs as DOTD). Naval personnel should have retained and up kept the NCDs for situations like career courses. As well I think hiding behind the "non naval position" is thin at best. You and I both know as Sup Techs the NCDs could have been provided had the correct time been allotted. Lastly on my 5s we had 2 Navy pers. Myself from Halifax and 1 other LS from Edmonton. This LS having spent his time thus far in hard army central managed to show up in NCDs.

I know while in Kingston I was able to provide a PO1 Coms Research type with NCDs because he was entitled to them as Navy pers in an instructional environment. That was in 1999.

One last thing about Scales and our "rules" governing supply, don't let them get in the way of providing the best support possible. Your cap badge reads "Service Second to None", try to uphold that for all elements eh. I sometimes get the feeling you resent your Naval counterparts.

 

[armyvern]

Operational kit (IE Rucksack, webbing etc etc) Is different than one's daily dress. Unless you are hearkening back to the days of Work Dress/Base Dress/OP dress then I think you may be mistaken. For the OS Sup Tech who leaves St Jean for Borden will retain the NCDs for that will be the DOTD while at CFSAL.

I say again - one last time - I say again: I am speaking of the NCDs. Last year, purple pers leaving Saint Jean were still not entitled to leave basic with their NCDs as a retention item because, as purple people, there was no guarantee they'd be posted into a "naval establishment posn" upon grad from QL3. Two OS's were posted into me, they had NO NCDs - nor did they have an entitlement to them.

This in my opinion is just laziness on the members part. Such as all Air and Army personnel retain the CADPAT while employed on ship (But wearing NCDs as DOTD). Naval personnel should have retained and up kept the NCDs for situations like career courses. As well I think hiding behind the "non naval position" is thin at best. You and I both know as Sup Techs the NCDs could have been provided had the correct time been allotted. Lastly on my 5s we had 2 Navy pers. Myself from Halifax and 1 other LS from Edmonton. This LS having spent his time thus far in hard army central managed to show up in NCDs.

I'm not hiding behind anything; the navy's scales are the Navy's scales, not mine. Naval pers will retain their NCDs once they have become entitled to their initial issue of them; as the scale read, that entitlement "commences upon first posting into a naval establishment posn". Now, why is it that the Navy implemented a change to their dress regs that (apparently) did not match their own scale of entitlement, but that is somehow mine (or my trades) fault? Very interesting concept you have of what my job is vice what the navy's job is in this circumstance. The irony in your statement is that YOU are the naval Sup tech working within the Naval CoC at this point in time, but that you addressed SFA - just bitched at me - while another Naval non-Sup pers here on the site actually took the time to address the navy's conflict (as did I) through their CoC.

I know while in Kingston I was able to provide a PO1 Coms Research type with NCDs because he was entitled to them as Navy pers in an instructional environment. That was in 1999.

That's nice, but that's not what we're talking about here; we're talking about purple people who by the Navy's own scale of entitlement were not entitled to an initial issue of NCDs as they were/had never been posted into or working for on a temp task a Naval establishment posn. Besides the fact that we are also discussing the current navy scale - which I guarantee you has changed at least 20 times since 1999 and your given example - and the current NCDs, not the old shrinking crap that we used to have in the dockyard circa 91/92 ... or 99. As a suppie you and I both know full well that how a scale read circa 99 means absolutely SFA as to how that scale reads today - or at least you should ... given your apparent TI.

One last thing about Scales and our "rules" governing supply, don't let them get in the way of providing the best support possible. Your cap badge reads "Service Second to None", try to uphold that for all elements eh. I sometimes get the feeling you resent your Naval counterparts.

One last thing about "my job"; right now, my job is to attend classes and be a student. As for "service second to none", one day, while being a student, I had to visit the tailor shop. While there, I asked the suppie to check the scale to see if it still read the same - according to that suppie it did. I told the suppie about the new CMS message and asked them to bring it (and the conflict with the scale) to the attention of their supr. I did my job, even though I didn't have to (& what, exactly, have you - the navy Sup tech in a naval CoC done to address it [ie: have YOU done YOUR job?]). And, because of comments such as yours slamming all the other environments about "not letting" sailors wear NCDs despite the new message --- I pointed out the conflict here too. One Naval pers actually took it upon themselves to take that info and address that conflict through the Naval CoC (who are the ones, after all, who can ammend that scale; me nor any other suppies can), unlike yourself who just chose to slam someone else and another trade for a possible oversight on the navy's part.

Pointing that out means I am biased and not doing my job? Ri-iiight. As for slamming me with the "resent your naval counterparts" comment ... you'll get over yourself one day I'm sure (hopefully soon).  : Here's a link below to a pic of me & my sailor dad ... and my brother is sailing on the Freddy these days. Have a happy new year, hope your sky turns from purple haze back to blue soon.  :

http://milnet.ca/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=16928

 

[Halifax Tar]

Easy fix if you can get access get onto the Web Query Tool go to MA Documents and follow the lead to Scales of issue following it to the various different scales. You will find the basic uniform entitlements for all people of all elements. This will solve it. I cant as I am on leave but once I am back in Petawawa in the new year I will again verify something I am quite aware of.

I don't know what SFA means... (Sweet F All I think) Please enlighten me

So what does the OS Sup Tech/Cook/Clerk wear as dress of the day while on his/hers 3 course ? Seeing as that is not a "naval establishment posn" you would see them in CADPAT ? Or some version of the CF dress ? (i.e. Salt and peppers)

"That's nice, but that's not what we're talking about here; we're talking about purple people who by the Navy's own scale of entitlement were not entitled to an initial issue of NCDs as they were/had never been posted into or working for on a temp task a Naval establishment posn. Besides the fact that we are also discussing the current navy scale - which I guarantee you has changed at least 20 times since 1999 and your given example - and the current NCDs, not the old shrinking crap that we used to have in the dockyard circa 91/92 ... or 99. As a suppie you and I both know full well that how a scale read circa 99 means absolutely SFA as to how that scale reads today - or at least you should ... given your apparent TI."

First Comm Research is a "Purple Trade" I have sailed with them and know they are employed in all other environments. This PO1 was instructing some Comm Rsch course in Kingston hardly a Hard Naval Established Position and was entitled to NCDs.

And again refer to the WQT which will give you scales, basic or operational or an combination there of for all personnel out there. Basic scales are to be issued, maintained and carried by the member so long as they remain part of that entitled environment.

If you saw my post as "slamming" that's fine but it was just an observation made over this limited window called the internet and I stand buy it. If you disagree good for you, you know you best right ? I know I can still sleep at night not worrying about what is said on Army.ca, i sure hope you can too.

Who and who's trade did I "slam" ? You could marginally argue I slammed our's but I could just as easily argue the other.

Criticism is a good thing Vern I hardly think "I sometimes get the feeling you resent your Naval counterparts" is a heinous "slamming" of ones self wouldn't you ?

 

[armyvern]

Easy fix if you can get access get onto the Web Query Tool go to MA Documents and follow the lead to Scales of issue following it to the various different scales. You will find the basic uniform entitlements for all people of all elements. This will solve it. I cant as I am on leave but once I am back in Petawawa in the new year I will again verify something I am quite aware of.

I don't know what SFA means... (Sweet F All I think) Please enlighten me

So what does the OS Sup Tech/Cook/Clerk wear as dress of the day while on his/hers 3 course ? Seeing as that is not a "naval establishment posn" you would see them in CADPAT ? Or some version of the CF dress ? (i.e. Salt and peppers)

"That's nice, but that's not what we're talking about here; we're talking about purple people who by the Navy's own scale of entitlement were not entitled to an initial issue of NCDs as they were/had never been posted into or working for on a temp task a Naval establishment posn. Besides the fact that we are also discussing the current navy scale - which I guarantee you has changed at least 20 times since 1999 and your given example - and the current NCDs, not the old shrinking crap that we used to have in the dockyard circa 91/92 ... or 99. As a suppie you and I both know full well that how a scale read circa 99 means absolutely SFA as to how that scale reads today - or at least you should ... given your apparent TI."

First Comm Research is a "Purple Trade" I have sailed with them and know they are employed in all other environments. This PO1 was instructing some Comm Rsch course in Kingston hardly a Hard Naval Established Position and was entitled to NCDs.

And again refer to the WQT which will give you scales, basic or operational or an combination there of for all personnel out there. Basic scales are to be issued, maintained and carried by the member so long as they remain part of that entitled environment.

If you saw my post as "slamming" that's fine but it was just an observation made over this limited window called the internet and I stand buy it. If you disagree good for you, you know you best right ? I know I can still sleep at night not worrying about what is said on Army.ca, i sure hope you can too.

Who and who's trade did I "slam" ? You could marginally argue I slammed our's but I could just as easily argue the other.

Criticism is a good thing Vern I hardly think "I sometimes get the feeling you resent your Naval counterparts" is a heinous "slamming" of ones self wouldn't you ?

Yes, once you get back here to Pet (I am here now) - go ahead and verify what the scale reads now. But, no - it isn't "an easy fix" - YOU can't change the scale - even being a navy sup tech who can access them via WQT & homepage - rather, you can just look them up. Hell, even an SM(f) can't change the scale. I can assure you that I am very well familiar with their workings ... We'll perhaps meet one day soon ... this is my posting choice number one & 9erD is here. You can show me how to read scales. And you can tell me how Comm Rsch is a purple trade ... and you can tell me how THAT relates to how a scale reads today as opposed to 10 years ago? It doesn't. Two years ago, 043s weren't entitled to safety boots either, but they are now. Scales change. Your example has SFA (yes, you got that right) to do with now.

Oh, and when you teach me how to use the scales, make sure you teach me how to read the *notes that accompany them ...  :  But really, there's no need for you to look anything up actually -- another Naval pers on this thread has already brough the conflict between the scale and the message to their CoC for invest. And I've already made sure it was brought up on the Supply side. Because, the Sup tech who works in clothing stores looked up the scale for me the first week of December (I have pretty-much non-existant DIN access as a student on a French course; I certainly don't have a computer) and they still read then "upon first posting into a naval establishment posn"; It'll have been a month and, as already noted in this thread, that conflict was then brought up through the supply and naval side of the house, so perhaps it'll be fixed by the time you're back to work.

My OS' came in to me ... with cadpat. They were also in cadpat and/or word dress last fall/winter (2008) when I was tasked to CFSAL as staff ... One of them went to work in clothing, another into the MSA (which also fell under me in the CoC) ... neither were, at that point in time last fall, entitled to NCDs.

I guess I'm wrong. You must be right. In 91/92 I was entitled to the old NCDs ... I was NOT entitled to the new NCDs a couple years ago even had I been working in the exact same posn (in CSG in the Halifax dockyard) that I had been in in '91. Because until a couple years ago, the new NCDS were for "shipboard" use only and that is when entitlment kicked in. Guess what the other sailors wore? Their work dress. With the new NCDs entitlement was at first for "hard sea" posns first, then "navy establishment posns" ... and it keeps evolving & evolving ...

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Two years ago, 043s weren't entitled to safety boots either, but they are now. Scales change. Your example has SFA (yes, you got that right) to do with now.

And as an Instructor at CFSME during that time I thank you for helping get the scales changed.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yes, once you get back here to Pet (I am here now) - go ahead and verify what the scale reads now. But, no - it isn't "an easy fix" - YOU can't change the scale - even being a navy sup tech who can access them via WQT & homepage - rather, you can just look them up. Hell, even an SM(f) can't change the scale. I can assure you that I am very well familiar with their workings ... We'll perhaps meet one day soon ... this is my posting choice number one & 9erD is here. You can show me how to read scales. And you can tell me how Comm Rsch is a purple trade ... and you can tell me how THAT relates to how a scale reads today as opposed to 10 years ago? It doesn't. Two years ago, 043s weren't entitled to safety boots either, but they are now. Scales change. Your example has SFA (yes, you got that right) to do with now.

Oh, and when you teach me how to use the scales, make sure you teach me how to read the *notes that accompany them ...  :  But really, there's no need for you to look anything up actually -- another Naval pers on this thread has already brough the conflict between the scale and the message to their CoC for invest. And I've already made sure it was brought up on the Supply side. Because, the Sup tech who works in clothing stores looked up the scale for me the first week of December (I have pretty-much non-existant DIN access as a student on a French course; I certainly don't have a computer) and they still read then "upon first posting into a naval establishment posn"; It'll have been a month and, as already noted in this thread, that conflict was then brought up through the supply and naval side of the house, so perhaps it'll be fixed by the time you're back to work.

My OS' came in to me ... with cadpat. They were also in cadpat and/or word dress last fall/winter (2008) when I was tasked to CFSAL as staff ... One of them went to work in clothing, another into the MSA (which also fell under me in the CoC) ... neither were, at that point in time last fall, entitled to NCDs.

I guess I'm wrong. You must be right. In 91/92 I was entitled to the old NCDs ... I was NOT entitled to the new NCDs a couple years ago even had I been working in the exact same posn (in CSG in the Halifax dockyard) that I had been in in '91. Because until a couple years ago, the new NCDS were for "shipboard" use only and that is when entitlment kicked in. Guess what the other sailors wore? Their work dress. With the new NCDs entitlement was at first for "hard sea" posns first, then "navy establishment posns" ... and it keeps evolving & evolving ...

All right I think I'm lost now. I was only trying to show how all Naval DEU personnel are entitled to NCDs as it is the work dress of that environment, but not always the DOTD. I have no Idea what you think I should have been trying to change to address up through my CoC. What exactly should I be trying to change or address ? I believe the scales on the WQT all show the basic issue for naval personnel male and a separate one for female, and on those scales is the basic issue of NCDs.

I'm glad you like Pet its good to see people be where they want to. When the career shop has the chance to make someone happy the should. I'm only in Pet on TD until we leave for Afghanistan. Enjoy it, I know its been eye opening for me.

What is your definition of a purple trade ? Mine is one who is employed in all environments regardless of uniforms. Com Rsch is one, in my books as they sail, go to the field and do air stuff too as a part of their primary duties. Also the fact that I have seen and worked with Navy and Army Comm Rsch people further supports my belief that they are purple as well but by arguing this I feel its petty I don't think this has much to do with the point.

I am quite sure all Naval personnel are entitled to have NCDs and now with that message will be allowed to wear them in all environments which is good. If you are working on a base establishment like and MSA or Clothing Stores you wear the directed DOTD. That does not mean that those Naval personnel were not entitled to have on charge to there docs a complete set of NCDs.

Don't get all bent out of shape over this with all the "Oh, and when you teach me how to use the scales, make sure you teach me how to read the *notes that accompany them ...  :  But really, there's no need for you to look anything up actually"kind of talk. I simply believe, to the best of my knowledge, that all Naval DEU personnel, whether hard sea or support, are entitled to a basic issue of NCDs issued during BRT that will be theirs to up keep and maintain for as long as the Naval DEU is that which they wear. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong I can deal with that but until proven I am I will go on believing I am not.

When back in Pet, with access to a DIN computer, I will check this out and post my findings if you get to it first by all means have the pleasure. Until then relax have a beer and enjoy Petawawa. Merry Christmas right ?

 

[McG]

One last thing about Scales and our "rules" governing supply, don't let them get in the way of providing the best support possible. Your cap badge reads "Service Second to None", try to uphold that for all elements eh.

I'm not sure what you mean by suggesting not to let the rules governing supply get in the way of providing the best service?

Those scales are produced by the ECSs (in the case of MARCOM, I assume it would be N4 something or other) in consultation with the supply manager (in the case of NCDs that would be in DSSPM).  The ECS assesses needs, wants & benefits; the SM is consulted on item availabilities and costs; the ECS then make a decision on entitlement.

If you are handing out items to individuals that are deemed not-entitled, then you are disobeying an order.  I could find understanding for operational reasons, but not just so that little Johnny won't be the only un-cool guy without item X on his course.  If you issue out items to individuals that are deemed not-entitled, then you are consuming/wasting resources that you are not authorized to consume (because lets face it, the SM is going to have to spend money to replace that on the shelf).  Sure, maybe it is small dollar value in the big scheme of things, but aggregate that cost across on the supply techs "just trying to be a nice guy" across the country for the year ... the dollar values add up.  It is a lot of waste when one considers that those responsible for the resource (Navy HQ & DSSPM) have determined it was not required; and it would be especially worse in a time when we are hacking training & cutting reserve employment to save every dollar we can.

I'm sure that is not what you were suggesting though.