Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread

[Michael OLeary]

Anyone have ANY idea on how this delicate matter will be handed??

Probably not like this:

"Here is your award for having an OSI. Hope you get better.

 

[aesop081]

"Here is your award for having an OSI. Hope you get better.

What would you like them to say ?

"i know we have provided you with treatment for you OSI but just to be on the safe side we will award you this badge but dance around the reason why you are getting it "

 

[RHFC_piper]

Just touching on the topic of how it gets awarded, and who is eligible (for the wound medal, that is):

If this thing is going to take the place of the wound stripe, it stands to reason that it would be awarded under the same circumstances... Just seems logical to me, but what do I know.

And if thats the case, and to remove all doubt; here's a link to the Wound stripes FAQ

What kind of injury merits a wound stripe?
A wound stripe recognizes an injury directly attributable to hostile action, received in honourable circumstances in an operational area, and requiring medical treatment beyond local first aid.

What kind of injury does not merit a wound stripe?
Injuries received in accidents in special duty areas, on domestic provision of service operations, or on training exercises do not qualify for wound stripes. Wound stripes are not issued posthumously.

Now... just by this information; it doesn't state anywhere that OSI's are not included... It does specifically state "an injury requiring medical treatment beyond local first aid" and  "received in SDA/SDO"... which is in line with OSI's...  But, I always figured wound stripes were issued for physical wounds.  Not to discount OSI's, but I think there is a difference.  Most people I know with physical injuries from tour have very little reason to not wear their wound stripe, but I doubt soldiers affected by OSI's would be so willing... but that's just my thoughts on it.

Either way, if this medal is to replace the wound stripe (or augment it), would it not stand to reason that it follows roughly the same guide lines?

Just my $0.02

 

[Reccesoldier]

OK, so tell me.  Who has seen it?  What does it look like?  Engraving?  Ribbon Colours?  Bar on the ribbon?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I have, but I'm not telling... Honours in confidence and all that.  :blotto:

 

[Gunner98]

Sorry, my comments were made in reference to the CAB.  The "sacrifice medal" is another issue entirely and I think DAPatterson was actually posting in response to it.  The Comd/unit CO currently presents the wound stripe to a soldier in theatre.  I'm not sure if this will change once it transitions to a medal.

There is some precedence from the Wound Stripe is:

If the CO decides not to award it in theatre, it is unlikely that a paper trail is started that documents this decision.  When a soldier is later diagnosed with physical injury (or perhaps an OSI) and decides to redress, it may be too late.  Some (CSS) COs place letters/Memos on all soldiers' files (those not in direct combat role) who are involved in specific incidents that may result, in the future, require follow-up.

From recent experience it would be necessary for the individual to convince the CO from the time of the incident to reverse his decision.  It would be up to the individual to compile the supporting documents, if he chooses to otherwise redress.  IMHO, the Unit CO that the soldier is serving with will not have the knowledge or authority to retroactively revisit the situation.

 

[McG]

Why not just get the medics to hand them out at the RAP (or equivalent) based on a doctor's professional assessment of the injury, and as noted in the casualty's medical records? Oops, I've probably just proposed eliminating a whole floor of staff in some HQ somewhere ... sorry.

The comments on a dedicated staff being required to administer an award were for the combat badge & not for wound stripes (or a related medal).  I know, it is difficult to keep track of what is going on in this thread when posts keep switching between wound stripes vs wound medals and combat badges (and not stating which item they are commenting on either).

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

ok lets get on to the idea of the sacrifice medal, we already have an award for wounds recieved in combat, it's called the wound stripe, its worn on the sleeve of the CF Tunic to recognize these acts.  and yes the US has a different honours system,  read DIFFERENT, we are creating awards with the same (or pretty d@#$ close) so is it a matter of continiueing with a Canadian home grown honours system or lets just adopt another nations, like the US, we can hand out ribbons for successful course completion, not medals mind you but ribbons alone. or we can stick to the ones we have and develop in our own, modeled after nobody system. With Canadian medals, modeled after Canadian Ideals. It's not like I'm saying let's forget new medals and awards, but lets be distinct from other nations about it.

 

[the 48th regulator]

With Canadian medals, modeled after Canadian Ideals. It's not like I'm saying let's forget new medals and awards, but lets be distinct from other nations about it.

Uhm,


Not to burst your bubble, but our system is not based on Canadian Ideals.

Look at the uproar when we tried to distance ourselves from the V.C.

There is absolutely nothing "Canadian" about our awards system, other than the engraved name on the awards.

dileas

tess

 

[geo]

Artienewbie,... you might not have bothered reading the 19 previous pages of this thread but, your argument has already been brought up.  The wound stripe is good - while you are still in uniform.  What happens to that wound stripe once you retire or are invalidated out of the CF?  Would you permanently mount one on your business suit or mufti?  OR would you rather that it be added to your "rack" so that, for suitable occasions, you could wear it in full public view?

 

[Greymatters]

There is absolutely nothing "Canadian" about our awards system, other than the engraved name on the awards.

Too true!  Up to 1990 anyway, after that it seems to be a muddle between American and British systems...

 

[armyvern]

Too true!  Up to 1990 anyway, after that it seems to be a muddle between American and British systems...

Isn't muddled up & confused between US/British typicly Canadian regarding our 'identity' though?? I'd think that's what makes the Awards System distinctly Canadian.  >

 

[Reccesoldier]

There is absolutely nothing "Canadian" about our awards system, other than the engraved name on the awards.

dileas

tess

Right, just as there is nothing Canadian about our sovereign the Queen of Canada, her representative in Canada, the Governor General, the CDS, our Parliament, the PCO or any of the other members of the  Honours committee or legislative body of this nation which decides (completely independent of the UK or the USA) what honours will or will not be brought into the Canadian Honours System, because we all know that because Canada was once a Colony of England and so close geographically to the USA that it is absolutely impossible that we are ever going to be responsible or have a unique thought of our own. 

 

[the 48th regulator]

Right, just as there is nothing Canadian about our sovereign the Queen of Canada, her representative in Canada, the Governor General, the CDS, our Parliament, the PCO or any of the other members of the  Honours committee or legislative body of this nation which decides (completely independent of the UK or the USA) what honours will or will not be brought into the Canadian Honours System, because we all know that because Canada was once a Colony of England and so close geographically to the USA that it is absolutely impossible that we are ever going to be responsible or have a unique thought of our own. 

What distinguishes us from other Countires, with regards to the awards system then?

Oh and, who has final approval on the design and designation of a medal.

dileas

tess

 

[Gunner]

What distinguishes us from other Countires, with regards to the awards system then?

It's a Canadian system based on our history and heritage.

Oh and, who has final approval on the design and designation of a medal.

The Queen of Canada you Republican bastard! 

 

[the 48th regulator]

It's a Canadian system based on our history and heritage.

A British one.

The Queen of Canada you Republican *******! 

Aha, not the Prime Minister, our politically elected leader.

God save the Queen, we mean it Man!  :blotto:

Up the CRA!!

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

Up the CRA!!

Mother of Gawd ... I wonder if the GG would approve. 

 

[Reccesoldier]

What distinguishes us from other Countires, with regards to the awards system then?

Have you been studying the posts of georgeharper, Majstorovic and Harbinger in the "Afghan Fact or Fiction thread" to learn how segregate actions and logic from history? :-*  What would you suggest that we as a nation shouldn't use assembly lines because Henry Ford perfected them or we should have reduced ourselves to stone age technology in 1867 when we became a sovereign nation?  What nonsense!

Oh and, who has final approval on the design and designation of a medal.

dileas

tess

HM Queen Elizabeth II, The Queen of Canada.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Have you been studying the posts of georgeharper, Majstorovic and Harbinger in the "Afghan Fact or Fiction thread" to learn how segregate actions and logic from history? :-*  What would you suggest that we as a nation shouldn't use assembly lines because Henry Ford perfected them or we should have reduced ourselves to stone age technology in 1867 when we became a sovereign nation?  What nonsense!

HM Queen Elizabeth II, The Queen of Canada.

You cannot call our system, distinctly Canadian, it is not.

It is Canadian for the fact the awards are issued to mainly Canadians, that is where the distinction stops.  When we still await HM Queen Elizabeth II, The Queen of Canada to approve the medals, there is nothing distinct, other than we are still part of Britannia.

Until the whole system is overhauled, we keep our heritage, revamp the decision making process, and rid our the alignment with British Medals (i.e. the V.C) we cannot pontificate the fact of our apparent Canadian individuality on the Global scheme of awards systems.

We can beat our chest and call ourselves Canadian, while blessing our Queens long life, but in the end, our system is NOT "Canadian".

I am not anti monarchist, however, in the theme of this thread we can not lie and muddy the waters of fact.

dileas

tess

 

[Teddy Ruxpin]

I'll just point out that our current system (the "final approval" aside - even that is de facto in the hands of the Governor General in accordance with the current Letters Patent) is completely unconnected with that of the UK.  We cannot be awarded (except as a foreign decoration), British valour and campaign medals and have a distinctly Canadian award in place for all endeavours and at all levels.

Even the VC is a Canadian VC, with no connection (aside from the name) to the UK version, which, admittedly, it perpetuates historically.  The medal is superficially the same, but the motto is in Latin.  The Australians also have an Australian VC, with much the same intent.

We have not had a "British" honours system for many, many years and it is disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

 

[Reccesoldier]

You cannot call our system, distinctly Canadian, it is not.

It is Canadian for the fact the awards are issued to mainly Canadians, that is where the distinction stops.  When we still await HM Queen Elizabeth II, The Queen of Canada to approve the medals, there is nothing distinct, other than we are still part of Britannia.

Until the whole system is overhauled, we keep our heritage, revamp the decision making process, and rid our the alignment with British Medals (i.e. the V.C) we cannot pontificate the fact of our apparent Canadian individuality on the Global scheme of awards systems.

We can beat our chest and call ourselves Canadian, while blessing our Queens long life, but in the end, our system is NOT "Canadian".

I am not anti monarchist, however, in the theme of this thread we can not lie and muddy the waters of fact.

dileas

tess

I am not lying.  Your assertion that just because our honours system is based on the one we inherited from the UK it is not Canadian is the lie.  There is no CD, SSM, CPSM in the British Honours system, these medals are Canadian, they were devised, designed, legislated by and for the Canadian Forces.  We can pick fly crap out of pepper on this all day but the system is Canadian, manned by Canadians and legislated under Canadian Law.  You be the judge.