Rucksack / webbing layout

[JBP]

You mean you were required to do something physical with little tiime while having to absorb information....my god...it's almost like you were on Basic or something.

Yeah and I'm doin f*ckin' great so far.... Can't say the same for MANY of the others on the course...

Example:
People falling asleep during class lectures....
People failing the C7 Weapons Handling Test even AFTER they gave us PLENTY of warning+lead time+practice...  :
People missing timings+not having kit proper for inspection on week 5...

= Some people being BOOTED, some people simply giving up and quitting...

I was seriously shocked when I seen people start dropping from the course like flies, I mean, it hasn't even gotten that hard yet! PT is challenging, but we haven't even done ANY ruckmarching even........... O-well..

 

[R031button]

Yeah and I'm doin f*ckin' great so far.... Can't say the same for MANY of the others on the course...

Example:
People falling asleep during class lectures....
People failing the C7 Weapons Handling Test even AFTER they gave us PLENTY of warning+lead time+practice...   :
People missing timings+not having kit proper for inspection on week 5...

= Some people being BOOTED, some people simply giving up and quitting...

I was seriously shocked when I seen people start dropping from the course like flies, I mean, it hasn't even gotten that hard yet! PT is challenging, but we haven't even done ANY ruckmarching even........... O-well..

My BMQ was like that too; we even had people making up medical issues to get booted. It's ridiculous, some people seem to think that soldiering is just like playing Ghost Recon....well you never get shit bagged from playing X-Box.

 

[1feral1]

This weekend will now be SO much easier!!! Well, except for that our Sgt wants us to be able to do 425 pushups in 24 hrs....

Mini Rant: ON

I just got something to say here.....

425 pushups? In 24 hrs? Well frankly I think thats stupid and I would consider it abuse of authority. Think about it. PT is PT and thats okay within its own periods on standard trg days, and its for improvement of one's fitness status, and well being. I do it 3 days a week. I don't like it, but its gotta be done.

Setting personal goals for recruits is fine, but.......

If you (the DS) have a time frame to meet in your wknd trg pack (POs/EOs, eating, daily routines etc) its pressure fitted as it is to squeeze stuff in. I think than even outside of trg hrs alloted for the day, this many pushups is foolish time lost in effective man management for recruits. We know there is such things as maintaining kit and cleaning weapons. Cleaning of quarters, studying subjects, team building, bonding, learning and asking questions. Even semi-socialising with their peers within their barracks, not the Mess.

Young soldiers need a mininum of sleep, after all there is weapons handling, and other important classes which require ALERTNESS. I call it duty of care.

Mentioned above by Joe also is some pers falling asleep, poor subject retention - failure of weapons lessons etc, failure of meeting of timings (sounds like a piss poor Sect Comd here, not the recruits). What about good effective trg? Retention of personnel? Pers quitting?Ya I know that happens, but if they're copping from over zealous DS, can you blame them. I am not saying be soft, but if you want to retain recruits, one does not sling abuse of any kind   it them.

This many push-ups is also the brink of causing physical injury to some who being only part time, and just starting out, might not even be up to the mininum standard yet. The aim in PTat the recruit level is to promote physical activity, create better self esteem and self confidence. Do I know what I am talking about? As a former battelschool instructor (2yrs), I would NEVER request or authorise such things as this. As far as I am concerned your Sergeant needs his head read! Does your Pl Comd know whats going on?

Pure unadulterated foolishness! I am about as NON POLITICALLY CORRECT as you can get, but I do have one thing (like most of us) and that is common sense.

Mind you don't get me wrong, if this was some kind of endurance trg to trained soldiers, or work-up trg for/or SF/SASR selection, then I think thats fine, but for weekend recruit trg in the Militia, its just not on!

Mini Rant: OFF

My 2 'Bob'

Cheers,

Wes

 

[JBP]

Mini Rant: ON

I just got something to say here.....

425 pushups? In 24 hrs? Well frankly I think thats stupid and I would consider it abuse of authority. Think about it. PT is PT and thats okay within its own periods on standard trg days, and its for improvement of one's fitness status, and well being. I do it 3 days a week. I don't like it, but its gotta be done.

Setting personal goals for recruits is fine, but.......

If you (the DS) have a time frame to meet in your wknd trg pack (POs/EOs, eating, daily routines etc) its pressure fitted as it is to squeeze stuff in. I think than even outside of trg hrs alloted for the day, this many pushups is foolish time lost in effective man management for recruits. We know there is such things as maintaining kit and cleaning weapons. Cleaning of quarters, studying subjects, team building, bonding, learning and asking questions. Even semi-socialising with their peers within their barracks, not the Mess.

Young soldiers need a mininum of sleep, after all there is weapons handling, and other important classes which require ALERTNESS. I call it duty of care.

Mentioned above by Joe also is some pers falling asleep, poor subject retention - failure of weapons lessons etc, failure of meeting of timings (sounds like a piss poor Sect Comd here, not the recruits). What about good effective trg? Retention of personnel? Pers quitting?Ya I know that happens, but if they're copping from over zealous DS, can you blame them. I am not saying be soft, but if you want to retain recruits, one does not sling abuse of any kind  it them.

This many push-ups is also the brink of causing physical injury to some who being only part time, and just starting out, might not even be up to the mininum standard yet. The aim in PTat the recruit level is to promote physical activity, create better self esteem and self confidence. Do I know what I am talking about? As a former battelschool instructor (2yrs), I would NEVER request or authorise such things as this. As far as I am concerned your Sergeant needs his head read! Does your Pl Comd know whats going on?

Pure unadulterated foolishness! I am about as NON POLITICALLY CORRECT as you can get, but I do have one thing (like most of us) and that is common sense.

Mind you don't get me wrong, if this was some kind of endurance trg to trained soldiers, or work-up trg for/or SF/SASR selection, then I think thats fine, but for weekend recruit trg in the Militia, its just not on!

Mini Rant: OFF

My 2 'Bob'

Cheers,

Wes

Well Wes, your a good guy and I've read many of your posts on this website over the past 8 months I've been on it or so...

I would agree it was abit much, and our eyes almost fell from thier sockets when he gave us that #... Yes, it's BMQ (Basic training) for reservists every other weekend a month. It all started from one guy in our Section Commander's home unit trying out for the JTF 2, he asked how many pushups they'd do in a 24 hr period. The guy said about 425-450 on a good day, so, he said he'd have his RECRUITS doing that or better!!!!

We didn't make it. I can do a decent amount of pushups for a new recruit and compare to some guys on course and MY arms felt like jello....

Our course officer I /think/ knew what was going on because our Pltn MWO sure knew... They're all "old school" hard ass guys though... Except for the officer (Left-Tenant) who looks not past 25...

With our section it was okay I believe, we started with 13 and on week 5 are left with 9 guys. Not too bad, we're a pretty in shape bang on group of recruits. I don't think the other sections could have even attempted it seeing as they have quite a few younger gentlemen. Aged from 16-19... XBox ageframe..

Anyway, reading your message makes me kind of proud of myself Wess, at least I know if I have a half-cocked psychotic Sgt running my Section, it shouldn't be too hard to get through SQ+BIQ!

We did about 300-320 and I will admit one thing I DIDN'T like at all...

We had NO time, seriously, for any socializing or relaxing. We had 1 hour before lights out (2300 hrs) and it was NOT enough time to prepare for inspection in the morning. THEN, whoever wasn't up to standard, had thier kit ripped apart and thrown halfway across the armouries!!! I stayed up late in the bathroom shinning my boots+in my sleeping bag burning threads off my uniforms etc etc... (I know, not too bright)... It just wasn't fair.

That was all 2 weekends ago though, this weekend was different. The night before our C7 Weapons Handling Test we were given 2-3 hrs preparation time before lights out. Allowed to order pizza, relax etc...THEN, they woke us up at 6:30AM!!!! WE thought we died in our sleep and went to heaven since normally we wake up at 4:30AM.... Do PT, half die, then prepare for inspection.

 

[1feral1]

At least you know what you are up against. Good luck.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Jarnhamar]

People falling asleep during class lectures....
People failing the C7 Weapons Handling Test even AFTER they gave us PLENTY of warning+lead time+practice... 
People missing timings+not having kit proper for inspection on week 5...

So, how come you didn't,

1. Kick your buddies in the leg every time they fell asleep
2. Help the slower recruits in your class with their weapons drill when the instructors are busy
3. Make sure your buddies are on time and once your kit is squared away, go over theirs and make sure it's done right as well.

Basic training isn't only about you being able to follow orders, it's also about you making sure your buddies are taken care of too.
It all starts somewhere.

Instead of eluding to jokes about how weak some people are why not ask for tips on how to help them be better soldiers

 

[JBP]

Quote
People falling asleep during class lectures....
People failing the C7 Weapons Handling Test even AFTER they gave us PLENTY of warning+lead time+practice... 
People missing timings+not having kit proper for inspection on week 5...

So, how come you didn't,

1. Kick your buddies in the leg every time they fell asleep
2. Help the slower recruits in your class with their weapons drill when the instructors are busy
3. Make sure your buddies are on time and once your kit is squared away, go over theirs and make sure it's done right as well.

Basic training isn't only about you being able to follow orders, it's also about you making sure your buddies are taken care of too.
It all starts somewhere.

Instead of eluding to jokes about how weak some people are why not ask for tips on how to help them be better soldiers

I understand where your comming from, trust me, I do, they have pounded it into our heads every day we're there. "You will not pass this course without teamwork, it is the foundation of the CF".. Etc...

Our section is usually pretty quick about packing our crap up in the morning, so we always help everyone else carry thier rucksacks+duffel bags into the storage room. The night before the C7 Handling test me and 3 other guys from our Section called a guy over who we KNEW would fail and seriously needed help with it, he said, "No, don't worry about it...." Then walked away. One of our guys said, "Well, just let me know if you don't want me to help you, cause I don't have to, it's not like Sgt. didn't specifically tell me to go over this with you..."{Insert sarcastic tone because our Sgt did and this dude knew it}... He then said basically, thanks but no thanks. He doesn't want to be there I guess...  :

I dunno, I help where I can. Of course you always wake your buds up when they fall asleep. Also some dude left a shirt in the hall after showering, picked it up for him and gave it back to him later. Another guy kept my notebook for me when I left it behind, saved my ASS!

We've got teamwork, maybe our section more than the others cause' we're mostly from the same home unit, but it's there. They're just dropping the guys and weeding out the one's who don't want to be there, or can't hack it.

They say almost daily, "So, who wants to quit? Anyone else?" or things like, "Start showing some f*ckn' motivation! Start looking like you want to be here! Drive and motivation, move with a purpose!", that kinda stuff...

Like I said, not my fault some of these people are weak, they warned us that only 50% of the class would graduate if that...

Only thing I suck at is running and I've been warned, I can do the pushups, the crunches/situps, the chinups etc. Can't run worth a damn though. Started jogging only very recently, can only do the 2.2Km and I die... Gotta run a lot to get ready for the Pt classes next+rucksack marches....

PS> We're helping eachother out by "de-stressing" and going to the bar this week...

Thanks for the wake-up and advise though Ghost778, 

 

[1feral1]

Teamwork, courage, and initiative.Truly the backbone of any modern army.

Wes

 

[Jarnhamar]

"No, don't worry about it...." Then walked away.

Thats always a toughie.  How do you help someone who doesn't want to be helped?
Your always going to run into people who will just find it easier to quit, or fail, then put the required effort into it.
You need to push them. Always. It may piss them off but fuck it.  Because it's the military and were built around a team, if they fail, so do you. If they fail you can and will  be held accountable it's not fair and it sucks that someones stupidity effects you but thats howit is.

It's a selfish way of thinking but when you take care of your buddies, your helping yourself.  If im in your section and were on a march somewhere and were all carrying whatever special equipment and i fall out or quit, guess what.  YOUR going to be carrying my share
If dummy fails his weapons test because he's too busy on the phone with his girlfriend or drinking at the mess, the whole section will pay for it. 
The instructors will want to know why you didn't look out for him and they don't care if you say "well he said he didn't want help".  It doesnt matter what he wants. The section is more important than him.

As goofy as the "section and course senior" position are sometimes, there great in situations like this. I assume you guys still use them?
If someone is being a dummy and neglecting their duties, get the section senior to order them to do it. Yes, order. Sooner or later your going to have to give your buddies orders, might as well start somewhere.  If the guy doesnt obey the lawful order  (The section senior/coruse senior's authority comes from the instructors) then he can get in shit for it. Your also covering the asses of the whole section.

 

[JBP]

"No, don't worry about it...." Then walked away.

Thats always a toughie.  How do you help someone who doesn't want to be helped?
Your always going to run into people who will just find it easier to quit, or fail, then put the required effort into it.
You need to push them. Always. It may piss them off but fuck it.  Because it's the military and were built around a team, if they fail, so do you. If they fail you can and will  be held accountable it's not fair and it sucks that someones stupidity effects you but thats howit is.

It's a selfish way of thinking but when you take care of your buddies, your helping yourself.  If im in your section and were on a march somewhere and were all carrying whatever special equipment and i fall out or quit, guess what.  YOUR going to be carrying my share
If dummy fails his weapons test because he's too busy on the phone with his girlfriend or drinking at the mess, the whole section will pay for it. 
The instructors will want to know why you didn't look out for him and they don't care if you say "well he said he didn't want help".  It doesnt matter what he wants. The section is more important than him.

As goofy as the "section and course senior" position are sometimes, there great in situations like this. I assume you guys still use them?
If someone is being a dummy and neglecting their duties, get the section senior to order them to do it. Yes, order. Sooner or later your going to have to give your buddies orders, might as well start somewhere.  If the guy doesnt obey the lawful order  (The section senior/coruse senior's authority comes from the instructors) then he can get in shit for it. Your also covering the asses of the whole section.

Damn good idea man! We've used the section senior/course senior a few times to relegate certain duties around the barracks but not to that extend yet, and why not right? As you said, it's authority extended by the instructors for the PURPOSE of having everyone's shit together...

I'll be keeping that in mind the next weekend I go, really keep that in mind. Makes sense that they make the course senior the guy who was f*cking up the most that weekend. He attained 4 red chits in 1 weekend!!!!! Almost anything you can get one for he got it......

Joe

 

[NATO Boy]

Yeah and I'm doin f*ckin' great so far.... Can't say the same for MANY of the others on the course...

Example:
People falling asleep during class lectures....
People failing the C7 Weapons Handling Test even AFTER they gave us PLENTY of warning+lead time+practice...   :
People missing timings+not having kit proper for inspection on week 5...

= Some people being BOOTED, some people simply giving up and quitting...

I was seriously shocked when I seen people start dropping from the course like flies, I mean, it hasn't even gotten that hard yet! PT is challenging, but we haven't even done ANY ruckmarching even........... O-well..

When the going got tough my Section on SQ / BIQ decided to have fun with it. When we had to do Tent Parades, Change Parades and PT Parades because of missed timings, we played along and laughed at it like it was a game. Hell, some stuff my Platoon did was seen by SQ candidates (across the tent lines) 4-5 days into the course and it made at least 10 go to the padre and quit because of how hard it looked. I must admit it felt great doing something that people can barely watch without being discouraged; but it also felt bad because it seemed like we were putting on a show to "weed out" so-called "weak" troops. That's just the way it is, regardless of the staff or training; you'll make stronger troops buy forcing them to find their limit but you'll also loose some guys just because they "no longer want to play the game."

Now, unlike you, I didn't have guys who refused to seek help; instead I was put with a fireteam partner who felt he constantly needed help when what he really needed was motivation and a reason to prevail. It sucked having to stay up with him to study for tests and it really sucked to be questioned when his performance was not up to standard. But what was good was I got to learn the hard way that you can't just look out for yourself; you have to look out for the guys that might watch back on the battlefield. But judging form what you've posted, you've already learned this. I hope the rest of your training goes well for you; I know my days in BMQ, SQ, and DP1 INF won't be forgotten.