Reserve RECCE crew commanders

[John Nayduk]

Before some people get all bent out of shape by the length of reserve courses etc, let’s remember that the guys that take the courses do not set course length and content. Let’s keep the flames down and let’s hear some well thought out ideas.

Are we doing right by our junior leaders?

Now that the whole of the Armoured Corp has gone RECCE, maybe we should look at how we train our master-corporals. From a reserve standpoint, we send our corporals for the PLQ course and if successful, they get promoted and more times then not, they become crew commanders. They learn through trail and error and by the guidance of their troop warrant and patrol commanders. After some time passes, they are sent on the 6A course. The first two weeks teach them how to be a crew commander, then, the next Monday they start to learn how to be a patrol commander. What we get is a bunch of master-corporals who have crew commander experience but are not all taught to the same standard. They must “unlearn” crew commanding and relearn it to the accepted standard.

Now most will argue that their regiment only teaches the “right way”. To be honest, that really is impossible as the units of the Corp are spread all across our great nation. Having the course content centred at the Armour School makes sense and ensures standardization. That and having one common set of SOPs across the Corp would make interoperability between units so much easier but that’s for another time. To get back to our master-corporals, wouldn’t it make more sense to require the corporals to take the two-week crew commander course before promotion to master-corporal? Now I can hear all the corporals telling me to shut up. After the 11 week PLQ, I don’t blame them. I also think that the PLQ course should NOT be prerequisite for the crew commander course. No sense shooting ourselves in the foot by stopping senior corporals who may not be able to get 11 weeks off work for the PLQ and loosing a chance for more crew commanders. The advantage to having them take the crew commander course will be soldiers trained in the job that we will have them perform. They will have a chance to get good at crew commanding before we send them out for their 6A (patrol commanding) course, which will only need to be four weeks long instead of six. By having standards personnel from the school go to the area training centres to oversee the courses instead of sending all the corporals to Gagetown, we could run the course in the areas and save a little money.

Any thoughts?

 

[Recce41]

By rights NO ONE IS TO CC ANY VEH WITHOUT A CC COURSE. Now all DP3A/B course NCO will be out west. All Officer ones in Gagetown. I was an instructor for the RTLC(DP1 Mods 1-4). And some of the Res NCOs were right out of it. Sorry but. All leadership courses must be at SCHOOL level.
:evil: :tank:

 

[John Nayduk]

Exactly why we should run a crew commanders’ course for corporals. Let’s get these guys trained properly.

 

[Garry]

Howdy,

Been quite awhile since I commanded a Leopard, been even longer since I commanded a Lynx. Thanks, you‘ve reminded me of a lot of good memories......

FWIW I was a Leopard crew commander for almost two years before I had the 6a course, and I was a Recce crew commander as a trooper. Sorry Recce 41, but I disagree with the statement that you "need" the CC course to crew command a weapons platform.

I also instructed on the 6a course, and believe that the course should stay in Gagetown under the Armour School pervue. Not only do they have the "DS" solution (standardisation) but they also have the trg area and the mandate. Leave it be.

I wasn‘t aware that the Militia trg is only two weeks long- pretty tough to get the trg in in that short a time span...too bad! On the other hand, they‘ll practice these skill during the Patrol Commander pahse, and with the DS handy, they should progress. I also must think that the Units will be sending the best they have (and therefore reasonably well trained allready!), and consequently the trg required should be minimal...ie "unlearn" any bad habits learned at the unit level. ...I always ensured that I explained to my crew why were doing something... it used to be called "developing your subordinates". All of the guys I crewed with went on to become fine Crew Commanders...and I feel pretty good about that.

You mentioned a two week training period: is this tactics only, or does it include gunnery as well? How many vehicle types? Weapons systems? How much field time? Thinking back, it seems to me that the field time on the 6a was well over a month.....

Anyway, all the best.

Cheers-Garry

 

[Recce41]

I am in Gagetown as an instructor. YOU DO require the AFV CC to crew command a veh. It is the new policy.

 

[Sharpey]

I do have to agree with this. I am a senior CPL with Mods 1-5 of the PLQ completed, basically the Instructors Phase. I was thrown into the hot seat at CAC and I think I did a fairly desceant job considering I havn‘t CC‘d since I was a Trooper! (About 7 Years ago)

Chances are I will be CCing this training year. I have no problems with that. But I have no formal CC training, just experieince from 10 years of service. Spending most of my career as a Driver / Gunner / Observer and a stint with SHQ, you do see and pick up alot, but there is still alot missing. Battle Procedure? Yes I‘m rusty on that one.

Even after completing the full 11 week PLQ or the broken down version that I have taken, I would agree to a formal CC course. I for one would hop on that, and I would highly recommend it to the fast track Cpl / MCpl‘s who have maybe only 3 years of time in under their belt.

 

[Sharpey]

[No message]

 

[toms3]

I also instructed on the 6a course, and believe that the course should stay in Gagetown under the Armour School pervue.

I just came off the Res Recce 6B out in Wainwright (wonderful place....) I have to admit that I would have rather done the course in Gagetown - not for training reason but for off base facilities and events (wink wink). Res Recce courses are conducted in Iltis (for the most part). For this reason, it is very difficult to go off road in Gagetown. For my 6a, which was in Gagetown, approximately 90% was on the roads and 90% of the time someone went off road...they got stuck. However, in Wainwright, you can go just about anywhere in an Iltis. Because of the poor wooded area’s you have to improvise a bit when sighting a hide, but it can be done. It provided great cross country practise which many Res units don’t get the opertunity to do. Conversely, Gagetown has many wooded areas, but it also has swamps on hills…(bit sarcastic there). The quality of instruction was just as good as what I had in Gagetown on 6a. While in Wainwright we were visited by Armoured school pers who came to check on the standard of instruction.