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Reserve Pension- Merged

It took them about 6 weeks to return my phone message but, following that, I received excellent service. The calculation for my buyback should arrive in the mail in about a week. They only found about a week they couldn't account for for some reason.

My only problem now is to find out if my several years of British Army service qualifies. I've got a message in to DAPPP but they haven't returned my call in 8 weeks, even thought their voicemail says '2 business days'. I'll continue to hound them, of course.

Hopefully I'll find out before CRA!
 
There are no provisions for buyback of military service with other Commonwealth militaries under part I.1 of the CFSA, the Reserve Force Pension Plan.

RFPP regulations are online at: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/en/SOR-2007-32/FullText.html

Election

11. (1) A participant is entitled to make an election, once only in respect of each type of earnings in each period during which the participant is a participant, to count past earnings and transfer value earnings as pensionable earnings.
Past earnings

(2) Past earnings are the earnings, up to the product calculated under paragraph 6(2)(a), in respect of
(a) any period in the reserve force, including any period before March 1, 2007, during which the participant was not a participant except any period
(i) that the participant is counting as pensionable service for the purposes of, or in respect of which the payment of a transfer value or a commuted value has been effected under, the Public Service Superannuation Act or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, or
(ii) in respect of which the payment of a transfer value has been effected in accordance with section 61;
(b) any period in the reserve force in respect of which the participant was entitled to a return of contributions within the meaning of section 38; and
(c) any period in the regular force in respect of which the participant was entitled to a cash termination allowance or a return of contributions.

Part I, the Regular Force plan, does provide for the buyback of Commonwealth service under certain circumstances: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/en/C-17/FullText.html

6 (b) (ii)

(E) any period of full-time service during time of war between such dates as are fixed by the regulations in the naval, army or air forces of Her Majesty other than those raised by Canada, if he elects, within one year of becoming a contributor under this Act, to pay for that service,

(F) any period of full-time service during time of war or otherwise in the permanent naval, army or air forces of Her Majesty other than those raised by Canada, except any such service that may be counted by him under clause (E), if he elects, within one year of becoming a contributor under this Act, to pay for that service,

 
My MP visited me, at my request, on 30 Jun. I briefed him and provided hard copy plus electronic copy of some pension documents. Included was an account by TB employees that they did not understand the screw up that they negotiated re moving costs of posted CF pers.

My MP was very interested, and commented that "we pasted legislation on" high interest. I will probably get the same letter everyone else gets. but I have hope

I live in Kelowna and my MP is well known.

 
dapaterson said:
There are no provisions for buyback of military service with other Commonwealth militaries under part I.1 of the CFSA, the Reserve Force Pension Plan.

RFPP regulations are online at: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/en/SOR-2007-32/FullText.html

Part I, the Regular Force plan, does provide for the buyback of Commonwealth service under certain circumstances: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/en/C-17/FullText.html

Excellent info. Thanks very much!
 
and to add insult to injury, if you were a memberof the CFSA, and not the RFPP your buyback of commenwealth time would cost less than buyback under the RFPP
 
I can't even fax the request in for my documents.... 7 times in the last 2 days, fax number is busy/no response.
 
PuckChaser said:
I can't even fax the request in for my documents.... 7 times in the last 2 days, fax number is busy/no response.

I had to leave three voicemail messages (I purposely phoned after hours as nobody ever picked up when I called during working hours) and it still took them over a month to get back to me.
 
Guys its been so long since I elected (3 years) I don't really know if I asked this before. I plan to transfer my RSP's over to my buy back. Can I start monthly payments, which I assume are tax deductible and i'll get money back come tax return time and eventually down the road do a RSP transfer then when the markets are better?
 
The reply I got Jan 08. To make a long story very short, you will probably not be able to deduct all of the monthly buyback on your income tax. Each case is different. Depends on length of service. I can only deduct $3500 (I pay $8580 per year) a year to a maximum of $63,000 life time.

Note that the only reason I still owed anything was the 7% Compound Interest which increased my interest costs by an additional $103, 600. The additional interest @7% CI meant I still owed $97,000 after all lump sum payments. Financing over 20 years added an additional $74,000 in interest (some mortality charge in that number) to the $97,000 which I should not have owed in the first place if we were only charged 4% Simple interest. Cost an additional $171,000.

Total interest charges of my buy back were $ 222,100 !!! DND and TB are loan sharks. And, I can only deduct a life time of $63,000 @ $3500 per year of the $171,000

Answer from Pension Services: You may wish to contact a financial advisor, or consult with the Canada Revenue Agency concerning the deductibility of your monthly deductions of $715, which will amount to an annual deduction of $8,580. The total cost for your elected service has been calculated to be $xxx,xxx. The cost for service prior to 1990 is $xxx,xxx, and the cost for service after 1989 is $xxx,xxx.

CRA rules for pension contribution deductibility are different for pre-1990, and post-1989. Due to the introduction of the PSPA, there is no limit on what may be claimed as a deduction for contributions related to service after 1989, if a PSPA has been certified (or is not required due to RRSP transfers). In your case, the proportion of pre-1990 balance of cost owing compared to total balance owing is 89.6%, and the proportion of post-1989 balance of cost owing compared to total balance owing is 10.4%. Applied to your monthly deduction of $715, the breakdown of your monthly deduction is $639.94 for pre-1990 service, and $74.58 for post-1989 service. Annually, it translates to $7,679.28 for service prior to 1990, and $894.96 for service after 1989.

This is where you will need the advice of a financial advisor or CRA in order to confirm the following. My unofficial notes re deductibility indicate that there are maximum annual amounts, and also maximum lifetime amounts that may be claimed for pre-1990 service. In the eyes of CRA, your elected reserve service is service "while not a contributor", meaning that at the time of the service, you were not a CF Pension Plan contributor. You became a contributor on 1 Mar 07. My notes indicate that in addition to the amount of $894.96 that you will be able to claim annually, there is a maximum of an additional amount of $3,500 that may be claimed annually, and a lifetime maximum, in your particular case of $63,000. The $63,000 is calculated by taking into consideration the number of pre-1990 years involved in the election, which is 18 calendar years (1972 to 1989), and multiplying by $3,500 (18 X $3,500 = $63,000).
 
Wow that's big money. My buy back is for service from 1989 afterward. I'm buying back 13 yrs 64 days, my calculation was about $51000 and $4000 top up. Hopefully that's fairly accurate,  I'm going to have to find a financial adviser that is up on this. man, they don't make it easy do they?

BTW I was at a pension briefing the other day and they claim only 20% have elected, I can see why.

Thanks for the info.
 
The CFSA annual reports are available online at:  http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dcf-dsp/ar-ra-eng.asp

However, the most recent report available is for Fiscal Year 2007/08, ending March 31st, 2008, and is dated 03 June 2009.

The CFSA states:

Part I

...

57. The Minister shall cause to be laid before each House of Parliament each year a report on the administration of this Part and Part III during the preceding fiscal year, including a statement showing the amounts paid into and out of the Superannuation Account, the Canadian Forces Pension Fund, and the Canadian Forces Superannuation Investment Fund during that year, by appropriate classifications, the number of contributors and the number of persons receiving benefits under this Part and Part III together with the additional information that the Governor in Council may by regulation require.

...

Part I.1

...

59.7 The Minister shall cause to be laid before each House of Parliament each year a report on the administration of this Part during the preceding fiscal year.


Therefore, Peter Mackay is currently in violation of federal law for failing to obey the National Defence Act.

Perhaps a complaint to the Nova Scotia bar might be in order, to prompt Mr Mackay, QC, to obey the law, as he is sworn to do as an officer of the court.
 
Got this from my Chief Clerk:

-----Original Message-----From: Schwarz PA@CMP DPSP@Ottawa-Hull
Sent: Wednesday, 20, October, 2010 09:34 AM
To: Dalcourt CWO AC@CMP@Ottawa-HullCc: Ketcheson MWO P@CMP DGCB@Ottawa-Hull
Subject: RE: Thank you for Contacting Pension Services - *ref#24-364267

Good morning Chief, I understand how it must often seem like there is too much (web-based) information out there for CF members to determine exactly where to start when seeking answers on the complex issue of their future pension benefit. Adding to this complexity is the fact that the responsibility for the development CF Pension policy falls under CMP (DGCB/DPSP) and the administration of the policy falls under ADM(Fin CS), specifically, within Pension Services (DCFPS). In recognition of the fact that this distinction is not necessarily clear to all members, we have recently made changes to the CF Pensions home-page on the CMP web-site intended to clarify this point and to help members navigate to the information they need, when they need it.

English: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pen/index-eng.asp
French: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pen/index-fra.asp

I am working with CMP's PA staff on a number of media possibilities to announce the changes and heighten awareness within the CF community of the availability of these web-based resources. All of that to say, we often receive queries from members seeking info regarding the administration of their pension benefits and inevitably, we end up forwarding these to Pension Services (DCFPS) to provide the response as these questions fall within their AOR. I hope the info above is helpful, but please feel free to contact me anytime if you think I can assist.

Regards.

P.A. Schwarz
Senior Policy Analyst | Analyste principale de politique Directorate of Pensions and Social Programs | Directeur de pensions et programmes sociaux Chief Military Personnel | Chef du personnel militaire National Defence | Défense nationale Ottawa, Canada K1A 0K2 peter.schwarz@forces.gc.ca Telephone | Téléphone 613-995-3722 Facsimile | Télécopieur 613-996-0529 Teletypewriter (National Defence) | Téléimprimeur (Défense nationale) 1-800-467-9877 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada
 
From the Link.

Buying back service  if you are in the Reg F:

Previous Regular Force service

You pay:

The lump-sum benefit paid to you at release

+

4% simple interest

(calculated from the date of the original payment to the date of your decision to buy back that service)

Previous Reserve Force service

Pensionable earnings in the calendar year of the service, updated to the year of your decision to buy back

×

Reserve Force Pension Plan contribution rate in the year of your decision to buy back

+

7% interest compounded annually, calculated from the middle of the year that you bought back to the date of your decision to buy back that service

+

difference between contributions from the Reserve Force Pension Plan and the Regular Force Pension Plan, if any

I have several emails absolutely denying the interest rate of 4% SI for everyone buying back all service except Reserve service.

I expect an answer soon to my query.

 
Actually I like this better, if you were Reg Force buying back Reserver Force.


From

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pen/reg/ap-ar/bbs-rs-eng.asp


Previous Reserve Force service
You pay:

The contributions you would have paid for the same period of service if you had been in the Regular Force during that period (based on the Regular Force pay for the rank or ranks you held during the periods you are buying back)

+

4% simple interest

(calculated from 1 July of each year to the date of your decision to buy back that service)

 
Hmmm just got a call at home from the Pension Office, no problem with the Public Service time, but they can’t find any of my records for the military time. They keep asking for a regimental number, but If I recall correctly, everything was based on your SIN number. Time frame was 77-87 Class A and B time. Did Reserves get a “regimental number” for pay purposes back then? Paid a lump sum and deductions in 2009 based upon what we guessed would be a best case scenario for a buyback, no risk as they will refund the money not used and locked in the cost at that rate.
 
As far as I remember we got our SN in the early 90s and like you said prior to that we used our SIN. Some of the older guys may have had Regimental numbers but I am not sure.
 
Guys when you are paying back your buyback monthly, what is the cutoff age you have to be finished?
 
Chief Stoker said:
Guys when you are paying back your buyback monthly, what is the cutoff age you have to be finished?

20 years after you elect or age 65, the later of the two.

Ref: Res Force Pension Plan Regulations s18(2) http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/SOR-2007-32/FullText.html

When payable
(2) The instalments shall be payable on the first day of each month following the month of the election until the earlier of
(a) the end of the period chosen by the participant ending before the later of 20 years and the participant’s 65th birthday, and
(b) the death of the participant.
 
CANFORGEN 027/11 CMP 012/11 021803Z FEB 11
CF PENSIONS - PAST RESERVE FORCE SERVICE AND TOP UP ELECTIONS DEADLINE
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. CANADIAN FORCES SUPERANNUATION ACT
B. CANADIAN FORCES SUPERANNUATION REGULATIONS
C. RESERVE FORCE PENSION PLAN REGULATIONS



THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO REMIND CF PERSONNEL THAT THE DEADLINE TO MAKE AN ELECTION TO BUY BACK PREVIOUS RESERVE FORCE SERVICE OR TO MAKE AN ELECTION TO TOP UP CONTRIBUTIONS MADE UNDER THE RESERVE FORCE PENSION PLAN IS THE LATTER OF:

(A) ONE YEAR AFTER THE DATE OF RECEIPT OF THE WRITTEN NOTICE THAT INFORMED CF PERSONNEL OF THEIR ENTITLEMENT TO MAKE THE ELECTION OR

(B) 1 MARCH 2011


THE DEADLINE TO BUY BACK PREVIOUS RESERVE FORCE SERVICE DOES NOT APPLY TO CF PERSONNEL WHO ENROLLED IN THE REGULAR FORCE PRIOR TO 1 MARCH 2007 AND REMAIN AS CONTRIBUTORS


THE DEADLINE TO TOP UP CONTRIBUTIONS MADE AS A PARTICIPANT UNDER THE RESERVE FORCE PENSION PLAN APPLIES TO RESERVE FORCE PERSONNEL WHO HAVE QUALIFIED TO CONTRIBUTE UNDER PART 1 OF THE CANADIAN FORCES PENSION PLAN OTHERWISE KNOWN AS THE REGULAR FORCE PENSION PLAN


THIS MESSAGE IS TO BE CONSIDERED A FINAL NOTICE AS THERE ARE NO PLANS TO EXTEND THE DEADLINE BEYOND 1 MARCH 2011


PERSONNEL ARE ENCOURAGED TO VISIT THE RESERVE PENSION BUYBACK PROGRAM WEBSITE AT THE FOLLOWING INTERNET ADDRESS: HTTP://WWW.CMP-CPM.FORCES.GC.CA/PS/CB-RAS/RFP-PRP/INDEX-ENG.ASP AND TO NOTE THE CONTACT INFORMATION FOR THE RESERVE PENSION BUYBACK DOCUMENTATION SUPPORT CELL FOUND ON THE WEBSITE


PERSONNEL ARE ALSO ENCOURAGED TO REQUEST AN RPSR PENSION REPORT FROM THEIR PAY CLERKS TO ESTABLISH PRIOR EARNINGS


VISIT THE DGCB WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION AT HTTP://WWW.CMP-CPM.FORCES.GC.CA/DGCB-DGRAS/PS/PEN/INDEX-ENG.ASP ON THE INTERNET OR VIA INTRANET AT HTTP://HR.OTTAWA-HULL.MIL.CA/DGCB/DPSP/ENGRAPH/PENSIONRETIREMENT(UND ERSCORE)E.ASP?SIDESECTION(EQUAL SIGN)4(AMPERSAND)SIDECAT(EQUAL SIGN)15


SIGNED BY RADM A. SMITH, CMP
 
I have a question.  To me the answer is obvious, but someone/wonder of wonders/ has suggested otherwise.

Say you qualify for 5yrs.

You then decide to CT & sign for 25yrs.

How many years do you need to work before you can retire with a full pension?

is it 25?  Or is it 25 on paper, but you are credited the pensionable time of '5yrs' and therefore only need to work 20yrs?
 
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