little ruddiger said:
As for Hatchet Man's thoughtful and articulate comments; nowhere did I indicate that PFP is a pre-requisite for being hired by a police service. So stop dancing because I don’t know where you got that from.
I stand corrected you never said it is pre-req, but based on your comments you seem to indicate you would like it to be.
I do know the history behind the Constable Selection System and it makes some sense, my objection is to the price of testing and the fact that it is contracted to ATS. Yes the OPP do it too but the cost is the same. RCMP testing is similar and is given at no cost to an applicant. Peel Regional Police do there own tests, at no charge, which is superior and more involved. RCMP or Peel is scored instead of a pass/fail and neither look at OACP certificates.
Then who would you want to conduct the tests? Again, it comes down to resources (equipment, facilities, qualified testing personnel) Services are stretched as it. I already mentioned that the costs for the tests done by the OPP are the same as ATS. The costs were the same when Toronto did the testing as well. Paying for tests is not uncommon Calgary/Edmonton/Winnepeg are some of the other services that require you pay a fee in the applicant stage. Also when you say the Peel tests are superior, what are you basing that on? Which components? The physical is more challenging yes, but does that does not necessary translate as making it superior to the PREP. If you make statements back them up.
Yes, I have known Police Recruiters and one admitted to me that under the current policies he would not get hired. As to the belaboured issue of visible minorities and your assertion that I am contradicting (*fixed the spelling for you) myself, I am not. The vast majority of applications are from white males but the level of successful applications from people other than that segment of the population is disproportionately higher, good or bad that is the way it is. Again I never said you had no chance I said you are a dime a dozen and you are.
Really and what numbers are you looking at? Toronto puts out the class stats for every one of their graduating classes, and if you go their website you can see that they just graduated a new class of 144 officers. The stats for this class 16% women and 22% minorities. Hmm, my math is a little fuzzy but that says to me that 84% of the class were MALE and 78% of the class were NON-MINORITIES. That equals a lot of WHITE MALES, becoming officers. These numbers are pretty much the same for everyone of thier classes, if you don't believe me contact TPS and ask for the stats. White males may be a dime a dozen, but the simple fact is, white males still make up significant portions of the classes.
As for the new Security Guard and Private Investigators Act in Ontario it received third reading and Royal Assent on December 15, 2005 but has yet to be proclaimed (please do your research before you come talk to me). The old act stands until then so I hope you are not carrying a collapsible baton that’s a no no. The reason you have cuffs is because they weren’t regulated before and once training is mandatory your boss will yank them from your belt. Whether they return or not is up to your boss, but I would like to know did your boss pay for the all that impressive training or did you?
Ok then, I hadn't checked the status of the act in while. But as for the rest of your comments, you are way off. Please do YOUR RESEARCH. 1) I am aware that carrying a collapsible baton is not allowed (and that only applies to contract guards at the moment, inhouse security can still use them until the new act goes into effect), I never said I carried one either. I did mention baton TRAINING, which is for the STRAIGHT and PR24 styles. Which contract guards can carry if trained, and authorized by both the OPP (who handles licencing) and the local police in the jurisdiction which the guards work. 2)Cuffs may not have been stringently regulated in the old act, but you can be damn sure the companies I worked/work for (Intelligarde/Carecor) made sure you were trained to use them before you carried them, as they where liable in civil court if I or anyone else screwed up while using handcuffs. I can't speak for all companies but thats how it worked/works for these companies and few others that I know of (Intercon for one). And no the training I recieved at Intelligarde was conducted in-house by a S/Sgt from TPS who also worked for Intelligarde, so I didn't pay a thing. Carecor I don't carry handcuffs, cause I don't need them at the moment.
Although there are a few good parts to the new act, like portability of licences, there are no guarantees of decent and safe working conditions of front-line staff. No standard living wage and no recognition that private firms, who are not accountable to the public, are taking over more and more responsibility from the public police.
If you continue in private security (perhaps with another company because it sounds like you have trouble holding down a job) the new act may very well have you wearing pleaded polyester pants and a tweed jacket with elbow patches and a giant reflective patch on back that says “NOT A COP KICK ME”. That is what groups like the OACP want because I am sure that your current uniform is too "police-like" and that is a big problem to them.
There are no guarantees in the Police Service Act of decent or safe working conditions for front line staff. That kind of thing is covered under various labour/workmans comp laws. The standard living wage is covered under employment law. Except for a few companies security whole deal in housing security, I don't see much responsibility being eroded from the police. And security is accountable to the police and the civil courts if they screw up. And I have no problems holding down a job, I left Intelligarde voluntarily (like all my jobs, I leave when I find something better)to start a Class B contract. In fact I won't be working much longer in private security as I am going in-house with the OLGC.
But we have gotten off topic here the fact is that I have presented an alternative to what happens now with PFP at Community Colleges. As yet no one has made an argument against what I proposed. The Paramedic Program that was in the same building as us impressed me and the local EMS were up to there elbows with those guys. They were uniformed tons of field placement, very hands on and a tough course to pass. When they did pass they had everything they needed to apply right out of college. Why is it so far fetched to see some real improvement in PFP and graduate with pride, ready to apply because the course was relevant and useful to the student and the police? The fact that some people have attacked my post here only because I freely admitted having withdrawn my application indicate to me they believe my idea is sound. If it isn’t than tell me where you think my proposition is wrong or needs improving.
In terms of building bridges between the colleges, TPS is doing exactly that. But until the PROVINVIAL GOVERNMENT changes PFP curriculum to include the hard skill set of policing (firearms training, DT, handcuffing, PVO), then you won't see the police "up to their elbows" with college students. Thats why paramedic students go out on field placements, to practice the hard skills they have been trained in(placing IVs/airways, C-collars, performing rapid assesments etc), when they are hired by an EMS they don't require training in these areas. They do a couple of tests, and they are out on the road with a preceptor who monitors and coaches them. As well, the liability and safety issues WRT to field placements are very different when comparing Paramedic with Police. For one, paramedics don't get shot at, nor are they required to be in dangerous situations on a continual basis.
As to me filling in my profile.
Like you said voluntary, you don't like it, don't fill it out.
If people don’t take what I say seriously how is that my problem after all they are only opinions in space.
Filling out a profile is voluntary yes, but it is strongly encouraged if you had taken the time to read the post in Admin area called Army.ca Conduct Guidelines http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/24937.0.html Like it says people are hesitant to take others seriously if we know nothing about that person. You want your opinions to matter, let us know who you are.
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