Release from Res Contract & Forces

[PuckChaser]

Interesting.

So could a member be told, on two weeks notice, "Pack it up, you're now needed in Halifax in two weeks", while they're on class B in Esquimault, and then have the options of either agreeing on that timeline or refusing and staying for 30 days paid in Esquimault and termination?

Its only 2 weeks if the member requests to terminate the contract. The SOUs I've signed explicitly state that you can be moved anywhere in Canada for non-operational reasons while on Cl B contract. You could either move to Halifax, disobey a lawful command and go AWOL, or choose to terminate your contract with 15 days notice. They can still send you to Halifax for those 15 days though.

 

[RLD]

I know of a case a few years back where an officer was posted to a ship for a three year Class C term. Two years in the CM posted him to an HQ position that was  Class B. Said officer complained and at the end of the day he was paid at Class C rates for the remainder of his original posting even though he worked in the HQ position. At the end of the original posting period he reverted to Class B. I don't know if the solution was a result of the grievance process or a matter of Officers looking after Officers.

Assuming the original poster had a Class C posting message to 2012, did not request another posting e.g. "I want a shore posting" during CM interviews and there were no other issues such as conduct or the Class C position being phased out, I would say there is an good chance to win a grievance. Of course he would probably have to give up the job that he indicates is better for advancement and go back to the actual Class C position.

 

[McG]

Not at all, George - don't confuse the "contract" (which is the agreement to employ and be employed according to the applicable regulations) with the Statement of Understanding the member signs (which just outlines the most important applicable regulations). The contract itself is actually verbal (and yes, that's completely within the law). That being said, the member would still need to verbally accept the new contract or they would be unemployed after the 30 day notice period. But I gather the OP was wondering about whether it was legit for their class "C" contract to be terminated, and the answer is "yes" with 30 days notice.

There is no contract (verbal or otherwise).  Use of the word "contract" as a colloquialism to describe Class B ToS has become so widespread that some people actually believe a contract exists.  That is not the case.

 

[George Wallace]

There is no contract (verbal or otherwise).  Use of the word "contract" as a colloquialism to describe Class B ToS has become so widespread that some people actually believe a contract exists.  That is not the case.

Exactly. 

"Contract" is used incorrectly, most often because it is the simplest way to express what a Statement of Understanding (SOU) and a Route Letter and Attendance Report are to people. 

 

[Monsoon]

"Contract" is used incorrectly, most often because it is the simplest way to express what a Statement of Understanding (SOU) and a Route Letter and Attendance Report are to people.

The French Civil Code has a representative definition of a legal contract: "A contract is an agreement by which one or several persons bind themselves, towards one or several others, to transfer, to do or not to do something."

Class "B" or "C" terms of service are legal contracts. They're just very complex and not entirely captured in the SoU. The problem is that people think that the word "contract" means "irrevocable agreement"; it doesn't.

 

[Slackers]

I know of a case a few years back where an officer was posted to a ship for a three year Class C term. Two years in the CM posted him to an HQ position that was  Class B. Said officer complained and at the end of the day he was paid at Class C rates for the remainder of his original posting even though he worked in the HQ position. At the end of the original posting period he reverted to Class B. I don't know if the solution was a result of the grievance process or a matter of Officers looking after Officers.

Assuming the original poster had a Class C posting message to 2012, did not request another posting e.g. "I want a shore posting" during CM interviews and there were no other issues such as conduct or the Class C position being phased out, I would say there is an good chance to win a grievance. Of course he would probably have to give up the job that he indicates is better for advancement and go back to the actual Class C position.

No I didn't ask to go ashore, in fact the first I found out about it was when I checked by pay statement and it was "off". My COC didn't even know I was being posted. I did talk to the CM and he agreed to give me an extra 30 days of Class C because I didn't get any notice.
I am looking into a redress because this has put my family in considerable financial distress. I'm not really sure what I could base a redress on though.
I think any reasonable person wouldn't expect their employment would be cut like that, the billet still exists and is funded. Sorry guys if you think i'm complaining too much, I just think its a poor way to do things. I would love to know that officers name though.

 

[Zoomie]

I am looking into a redress because this has put my family in considerable financial distress.

While I truly feel for your circumstance, you are a PRes member - you should be set up to live on your rate of pay.  If you really need Class-C pay, do the CT to the RegF.

 

[RLD]

I'm not really sure what I could base a redress on though. I think any reasonable person wouldn't expect their employment would be cut like that, the billet still exists and is funded. Sorry guys if you think i'm complaining too much, I just think its a poor way to do things.
I would love to know that officers name though.

I don't recall the officer's name. Regarding a redress however I would suggest reviewing the Administrative Policy of Class "A", "B" and "C" Reserve Service - CMP Instruction 20/04 01 Dec 04/Amendment 6 dated 22 Jul 09 (Available on he internet at http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/20-04-eng.asp#ins-05-20 ).

Article 5.20 of the policy spells out Cessation of Class C service as follows:

"5.20 Cessation of a Period of Cl “C” Reserve Service
Cl "C" Reserve Service may be ceased under various circumstances. The circumstances include, but are not limited to, the following:

1.End of Period of Cl “C” Reserve Service - Cl "C" Reserve Service shall cease at the end of the period for which the service was authorized.
2.Training Failure - Cl "C" Reserve Service shall cease on return to the home unit if the Res F member, while on course or on-the-job-training, fails to achieve or complete the required training or course standard, and is removed as a training failure.
3.Lack of Qualifications or Skill Sets - The employing authority may, without notice, cease a Res F member's Cl "C" Reserve Service if the Res F member reports for service without the required qualifications or skills to perform the duties of the position.
Note - This circumstance could include a false statement of qualification or loss of certification
4.Relief from performance of military duty - The employing unit through the Cl "C" Reserve Service approving authority may, after having sought legal advice, recommend to the appropriate authorities that the Res F member be relieved from the performance of military duty as applicable because under the circumstances, it is considered necessary that the Reserve Force member be separated from the unit, as set out in:
■QR&O article 19.75, Relief From Performance of Military Duty (for admin purposes); or
■QR&O article 101.08, Relief from Performance of Military Duty - Pre and Post Trial (for discipline purposes).
5.On 30 days written notice - A period of Cl "C" Reserve Service may be ceased on 30 days written notice if service is being performed in Canada. The time period could be less if mutually agreed between the employing unit and the Res F member. Notice may be given in the following circumstances by the:
■employing unit if there is no longer a requirement for service; or
■employing unit, through the Cl "C" Reserve Service approving authority, if the Res F member performance is not acceptable; or
■Res F member if voluntarily ceasing the period of Cl "C" Reserve Service.

Note - A period of Cl "C" Reserve Service shall not be ceased as a result of unacceptable performance unless the Res F member has been advised in writing of the shortcoming, the standard of performance expected, a reasonable time to overcome the shortcoming, the date by which the performance was to have improved, and has been advised that the Cl "C" Reserve Service would be ceased if performance did not improve.
6.For all early cessation - The employing unit shall confirm in writing to the R F member, the Cl "C" Reserve Service approval authority, the Res F member's home unit (for pay and administration purposes) that the Res F members period of Cl "C" Reserve Service will cease early. Administrative details are detailed at ref A.
7.Service Outside Canada -A Res F member on Cl "C" Reserve Service serving outside Canada on active service is subject to a case by case review. See additional details at para 2.18."

You indicate that there is no conduct or performance issue and I assume you hold whatever qualifications are required including rank, trade, medical/dental/phsical fitness etc, so I asume the CM is using art 5.20(a)(5). However you also indicate that the position is still there and you did not agree to an early posting.  If this is all true then I don't see any justification for cessation of class C under IAW the policy.  A grievance is not a slam dunk by any stretch but I would say you have a decent shot. Note that the article states "circumstances include but are not limited to". However if the CM is going outside these  guidelines then he/she should be justifying much better than you have indicated. The CM might be able to claim the new position is better for career advancement but if that is the case he should also be able to spell out the career path he expects for you including future postings. I doubt this is the case. I have lots of sympathy for NR CMs as it is a difficult and thankless job but the reality is they are usually too busy trying to deal with todays shortages and priorities than on mapping out career paths for the sailors.

Good Luck.

 

[Gunslingel2]

I'm an Int Op (Cpl) with the Primary Reserve. I've recently accepted a job offer to work as a clerk because there were no job opportunities in my trade. I will be signing the three year Class B contract within the month. My concern is that I may at some point during this contract be offered a job at CSIS or Revenue Canada. If this were to happen, is there any avenue by which I could cease a three year class B contract to pursue a career in my chosen field?

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[kratz]

Simple answer: Yes.

If you search the site or use Google "army.ca:quit class B", you will see the pros and cons of quitting discussed on the site.
You will also note, the position is "not a contract", discussed at length.

 

[Remius]

You would need to advise your employer.  Generally a 30 day notice is the norm (mostly for administrative purposes and to allow enough time to find as replacement) but you can end your class b sooner depending on circumstances.  I ended one once with a week's notice, however my CoC was well informed that it might be a short notice thing and that I had other opportunities lined up.  It helped to avoid any surprises and them refusing to release me from my class B with that short of a notice. 

 

[The_Falcon]

I'm an Int Op (Cpl) with the Primary Reserve. I've recently accepted a job offer to work as a clerk because there were no job opportunities in my trade. I will be signing the three year Class B contract within the month. My concern is that I may at some point during this contract be offered a job at CSIS or Revenue Canada. If this were to happen, is there any avenue by which I could cease a three year class B contract to pursue a career in my chosen field?

Thanks in advance for any input.

IIRC the actual contract should read somewhere on there that either side can cancel with 30 days notice, this should also provide guidance CF Mil Pers Instr 20/04 - Administrative Policy of Class A, Class B and Class C Reserve Instruction

 

[DAA]

I'm an Int Op (Cpl) with the Primary Reserve. I've recently accepted a job offer to work as a clerk because there were no job opportunities in my trade. I will be signing the three year Class B contract within the month. My concern is that I may at some point during this contract be offered a job at CSIS or Revenue Canada. If this were to happen, is there any avenue by which I could cease a three year class B contract to pursue a career in my chosen field?

Thanks in advance for any input.

As stated above, YES, you can "Request an Early Termination" but depending on who the employing authority is, they will generally require "30-days" notice.

MILPERSCOM Instruction 20/04, Article 4.14 (Cessation of a Period of Cl "B" Reserve Service) sub-para e.

On 30 Days written notice - A period of Cl "B" Reserve Service may be ceased on 30 days written notice if service is being performed in Canada. The time period could be less if mutually agreed between the employing unit and the Res F member. Notice may be given in the following circumstances by the:
• employing unit if there is no longer a requirement for service; or
• employing unit, through the Class "B" Reserve Service approving authority, if the Res F members performance is not acceptable; or
• member if voluntarily ceasing the period of Cl "B" Reserve Service.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Your 'contract' will likely be in the form of a SOU (Statement of Understanding).  Make sure you read it as the termination stuff should be included and read before you sign.  Back when I did CL B (A) stuff we signed 3 year SOUs but got yearly route letters.

 

[Haggis]

If you were moved (relocated) at government expense you may be required to pay back all or part of your relocation benefits if you quit early.

From the CFIRP Chapter 13, which deals with Reserve Force Class B and C entitlements:

"13.11 Early termination of employment

CF members who voluntarily terminate their employment and complete less than one year of their employment shall have all expenses associated with the relocation fully recovered.

CF members who voluntarily terminate their employment have no entitlement to a return move."