Reconstitution

[PrairieFella]

You had to mention that, didn't you?

We are well within the throes of the BRG absolutely fucking our recruiting numbers. What a dumb fucking idea.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Thanks for clarifying.

This (from the offical NEP page) implied some grey area that their might be some minor output expected of them- akin to a highschool co-op or early stage apprentice
"As a recruit, you will be introduced to military life by completing the Basic Military Qualification Course, and then learn the skills required to work as a sailor during the Naval Environmental Training Program on either coast. After completing these courses, as a trained sailor, you will have the ability to complete common tasks on a ship such as seamanship and damage control and will shadow different jobs at sea and ashore."

These NEP sailors who stay will have more training and experience, than the majority of Officers and Ratings when they sailed to protect convoy's in WWII. You need to give a program like this a good 5 years to see if it makes a difference.
As for the ones using it end run around the bottlenecks, they should congratulated for their ingenuity and determination to join despite the efforts of CAF bureaucracy to stymie them.

 

[Remius]

These NEP sailors who stay will have more training and experience, than the majority of Officers and Ratings when they sailed to protect convoy's in WWII. You need to give a program like this a good 5 years to see if it makes a difference.
As for the ones using it end run around the bottlenecks, they should congratulated for their ingenuity and determination to join despite the efforts of CAF bureaucracy to stymie them.

Not going to lie, the CAF needs some out of the box thinking on how it attracts, trains and retains.

It may take trial and error, some money and a little imagination.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Not going to lie, the CAF needs some out of the box thinking on how it attracts, trains and retains.

It may take trial and error, some money and a little imagination.

Like making it easier for Reservists to CT to Reg F?

Wait, what was I thinking

 

[Remius]

Like making it easier for Reservists to CT to Reg F?

Wait, what was I thinking

And vice versa…

 

[markppcli]

These NEP sailors who stay will have more training and experience, than the majority of Officers and Ratings when they sailed to protect convoy's in WWII. You need to give a program like this a good 5 years to see if it makes a difference.
As for the ones using it end run around the bottlenecks, they should congratulated for their ingenuity and determination to join despite the efforts of CAF bureaucracy to stymie them.

Sure but those WW2 sailors weren’t having to set up network connections between the gun and control stations.

Like making it easier for Reservists to CT to Reg F?

Wait, what was I thinking

Woah woah woah next you’ll suggest reg force soldiers who move to the reserves should be able to get their education benefits instead of having to release.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Sure but those WW2 sailors weren’t having to set up network connections between the gun and control stations.


Woah woah woah next you’ll suggest reg force soldiers who move to the reserves should be able to get their VAC education benefits instead of having to release.

There, FTFY... why would you even suggest that Veterans Affairs start seamlessly integrating with the CAF?

 

[OldSolduer]

There, FTFY... why would you even suggest that Veterans Affairs start seamlessly integrating with the CAF?

Yes because it would probably cut the workforce to what's actually needed.

 

[Remius]

Yes because it would probably cut the workforce to what's actually needed.

Not to bemoan anything but that exact line was used when they created Phoenix and SSC…

 

[dapaterson]

Like making it easier for Reservists to CT to Reg F?

Wait, what was I thinking

The longest part of the CT is process is waiting for the training authorities to confirm the qualifications to grant. So if the Army wants it to go faster, the Army needs to talk to... The Army.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Sure but those WW2 sailors weren’t having to set up network connections between the gun and control stations.


Woah woah woah next you’ll suggest reg force soldiers who move to the reserves should be able to get their education benefits instead of having to release.

I would totally do the Reserve thing if it meant I would get to take advantage of the education grants.

 

[Remius]

I would totally do the Reserve thing if it meant I would get to take advantage of the education grants.

Many would.

 

[Rudburg]

Sure but those WW2 sailors weren’t having to set up network connections between the gun and control stations.

I understand the point you are trying to make here, but warships have had networked fire control systems since before WW1. Fire control on those ships was far more complicated than many might realize - it's not easy to hit a moving target at 20000 yards when the gun platform is unstable and moving in all three dimensions. Spotters and rangefinders were linked to a fire control computer which calculated and continuously updated the range and bearing to the target. This data was sent through a transmitting station to the guns. By mid-WW2 the fire control data could incorporate radar information to locate targets and also to adjust the fall of shot.

Transmitting Station - The Dreadnought Project

dreadnoughtproject.org

Dreyer Fire Control Table - The Dreadnought Project

dreadnoughtproject.org

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Sure but those WW2 sailors weren’t having to set up network connections between the gun and control stations.

Literarily some of those ships sailed on convoy duty with only 1-2 people that had been to sea before. It is utterly amazing how well they did in spite of the lack of training and equipment.

 

[markppcli]

I understand the point you are trying to make here, but warships have had networked fire control systems since before WW1. Fire control on those ships was far more complicated than many might realize - it's not easy to hit a moving target at 20000 yards when the gun platform is unstable and moving in all three dimensions. Spotters and rangefinders were linked to a fire control computer which calculated and continuously updated the range and bearing to the target. This data was sent through a transmitting station to the guns. By mid-WW2 the fire control data could incorporate radar information to locate targets and also to adjust the fall of shot.

Transmitting Station - The Dreadnought Project

dreadnoughtproject.org

Dreyer Fire Control Table - The Dreadnought Project

dreadnoughtproject.org

My point was that a targeting computer in WW1 was a slide rule in the hands of an officer, and the network was telling. Now we’re data linking computer systems together; we need technicians vs mechanics so the training barrier is bigger.

 

[Rudburg]

My point was that a targeting computer in WW1 was a slide rule in the hands of an officer, and the network was telling. Now we’re data linking computer systems together; we need technicians vs mechanics so the training barrier is bigger.

No, it was far more than just a slide rule. The fire control computer was an analog computer that took multiple inputs from multiple sources and generated data that was continuously updated. It took a team of skilled officers and ratings to work the system - spotters in the upperworks watching fall of shot, technicians operating the computer, gunlayers in the turrets.

Data transmission was initially by voice, but this was too slow to be effective and was obsolete by about 1910. Fire control solutions, especially the range to apply to the guns, were always changing and were impacted by too many variables to rely on discrete voice commands. Depending on the method of adjustment being used, the range could even vary from one gun to the next. By WW1 fire control information was transmitted mechanically or electronically between the nodes of the network: Follow-the-Pointer - The Dreadnought Project

 

[Navy_Pete]

My point was that a targeting computer in WW1 was a slide rule in the hands of an officer, and the network was telling. Now we’re data linking computer systems together; we need technicians vs mechanics so the training barrier is bigger.

In some cases it's so complicated we're moving back to just operators because we need highly specialized techs from the OEMs to support specific pieces of kit.

Still, the shear amount of stuff jammed into ships means that mechanics need to know some controls and electrical, electricians need to know mechanical and controls, and control techs need to understand the how both on top of the control system. Plus still all the fluid flows, gears grinding, engines burning and hydraulic systems, so a lot going on. The best techs have a really good particular knowledge, but also a lot of breadth.

 

[markppcli]

Well count me suitably educated

 

[OldSolduer]

Well count me suitably educated

Well we do eat crayons …ya know?

 

[childs56]

In some cases it's so complicated we're moving back to just operators because we need highly specialized techs from the OEMs to support specific pieces of kit.

Still, the shear amount of stuff jammed into ships means that mechanics need to know some controls and electrical, electricians need to know mechanical and controls, and control techs need to understand the how both on top of the control system. Plus still all the fluid flows, gears grinding, engines burning and hydraulic systems, so a lot going on. The best techs have a really good particular knowledge, but also a lot of breadth.

Here is the problem with any modern machinery.
You need Mechanics, Diesel, turbine, small engine, gear etc
You need Techs, Radar, Sonar, electronics
you need electricians,
You need programmers
You need Welders
you need Millwrights.

Not all at the same time, but you need all of them to keep the ships systems operating.