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Recent Canadian deserters

Bart Nikodem

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I was reading the thread about American deserters and someone mentioned a (relatively) recent Canadian deserter, (Pte / Cpl  Schumacher (sp?)), and it got me to thinking,
Is that the craziest thing you have ever heard?
Now I've only been in the militia for 12 years, but in all that time it has not even crossed my mind that anybody in the Canadian military would desert. I suppose it could happen, and did happen in WW1 and possibly WW2, but how about lately? I understand Afghanistan doesn't get the same level of play as Iraq does so the idea of deserting to avoid it probably doesn't come up for people about to deploy but we must all be generally happy if I haven't heard of a Canadian deserter in a long time.
For you other Militia types, I don't count NES as desertion because with desertion it is usually a willful act whereas NES typically happens as a result of neglect.
All the best
Bart
P.S. This is the first time I started a thread so if it's in the wrong section let me know. I thought about putting it in Canadian army but since it is a fluff piece ( like most of my posts) I thought radio chatter was a better fit. I also searched to find an existing thread and came up empty.
 
He deserted around 90 after he shot a cop in TO.Then had a shoot out in the states i think BAltimore were he's in jail.Don't no if he is out now or not.
 
Hell, we had a guy (in my section no less) desert from CMR the second week of recruit camp 1987. He decided he'd had enough, went over the wall, and hopped a train back home - where he was intercepted by the waiting MPs who dragged him back.

Where he was forced to complete the entire 6 weeks of recruit camp, and then was kicked out upon completion :D

I still remember his name too... although he has probably since become a productive member of society and so there's no need to out him.

DG
 
bubba said:
He deserted around 90 after he shot a cop in TO.Then had a shoot out in the states i think BAltimore were he's in jail.Don't no if he is out now or not.

They should do what they did in the 1800's to deserters...hang them! Just kidding. I don't think that there would be to many deserters in Canada, after the Korean war I mean.
 
civvy3840 said:
They should do what they did in the 1800's to deserters...hang them! Just kidding. I don't think that there would be to many deserters in Canada, after the Korean war I mean.
Just think of the Canadian Military as if it were a School.  How many kids do you know that dropped out of your School?  The percentages are about the same for the Canadian Military.  It is rather common place, but not significant enough to really talk about.
 
Before this thread continues, you should be sure of the definitions of "Desertion" and "Absence without leave."

Note that desertion has the essential component of active service, or being warned for active service.


Queen's Regulations and Order, Volume II, Disciplinary
CHAPTER 103 - SERVICE OFFENCES
http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/qr_o/vol2/ch103_e.asp

103.21 – DESERTION

(1) Section 88 of the National Defence Act provides:
 
"88. (1) Every person who deserts or attempts to desert is guilty of an offence and on conviction, if the person committed the offence on active service or under orders for active service, is liable to imprisonment for life or to less punishment and, in any other case, is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to less punishment.
   
(2) A person deserts who
   
(a) being on or having been warned for active service, duty during an emergency or other important service, is absent without authority with the intention of avoiding that service;
   
(b) having been warned that his vessel is under sailing orders, is absent without authority with the intention of missing that vessel;
   
(c) absents himself without authority from his place of duty with the intention of remaining absent from his place of duty;
   
(d) is absent without authority from his place of duty and at any time during such absence forms the intention of remaining absent from his place of duty; or

(e) while absent with authority from his place of duty, with the intention of remaining absent from his place of duty, does any act or omits to do anything the natural and probable consequence of which act or omission is to preclude the person from being at his place of duty at the time required.

(3) A person who has been absent without authority for a continuous period of six months or more shall, unless the contrary is proved, be presumed to have had the intention of remaining absent from his place of duty."

NOTES

(A) It is an essential ingredient of the offence of desertion that the accused have had a wrongful intent. The question as to whether an accused intended not to return, or did any act which showed that the accused had an intention of not returning, is in each case a question of fact to be decided by the service tribunal upon the evidence submitted in the course of the trial. Prolonged absence which the accused fails to explain may be taken into account by the service tribunal as one of the factors relevant to the issue of whether the accused intended not to return. Where, however, the absence has lasted for six months or more, subsection 88(3) of the National Defence Act applies. Evidence relating to the following questions may assist the court in determining whether the accused intended to return:
 
(i) Did the accused make any remarks indicating that he did not intend to return?
 
(ii) Were the circumstances in which the accused was living during the absence inconsistent with an intention of returning?
 
(iii) Did the accused change his name during his absence?
 
(iv) Was the state of the accused’s kit inconsistent with an intention of returning?
 
(B) In order to establish an offence of attempting to desert, the following two elements must be proven:
 
(i) an intent to commit the offence of desertion,
 
(ii) an act or omission towards the commission of the offence of desertion.
 
An intent to desert is not sufficient alone if nothing is done to carry it into effect. A distinction must, however, be drawn between acts or omissions toward the commission of an offence of desertion and those which are mere preparations. It is not possible to draw a clear line of distinction but, in general, preparation consists in devising or arranging the means for the commission of an offence while an act or omission sufficient to support a charge of attempting to desert must involve a direct movement towards the commission of the offence after the preparations have been made. For example, a person, having an intent to desert, might pack his kit. That fact would merely be a stage in his preparations and not such an act that would justify a charge of attempting to desert. An example of an act justifying a charge of attempting to desert would be the scaling of a fence surrounding the camp after preparations indicating an intent to desert.
 
(C) The offence of desertion is committed even though the accused person may have left his place of duty with the intention of joining another unit. It is not necessary to prove that he intended to leave Her Majesty’s service.
 
(D) The expression "without authority" in section 88 of the National Defence Act signifies that the accused was absent with neither the approval of a competent superior nor the sanction of law, practice or custom.
 
(E) See section 133 of the National Defence Act (article 103.62 – Conviction of Related or Less Serious Offences) under which a person charged with desertion may be found guilty of attempting to desert, or of being absent without leave, and a person charged with attempting to desert may be found guilty of being absent without leave. See also section 137 of the National Defence Act (article 103.63 – Conviction of Attempt to Commit Offence) under which a person may be convicted of an attempt to commit an offence although charged with actually committing that offence, or convicted of an attempt to commit an offence although the evidence shows the offence was committed.
 
(F) The expression "active service" refers to the situation that exists when the Governor in Council exercises its powers under section 31 of the National Defence Act to place the Canadian Forces, or any part thereof or any officer or non-commissioned member thereof, on active service.



103.23 – ABSENCE WITHOUT LEAVE

(1) Section 90 of the National Defence Act provides:

"90. (1) Every person who absents himself without leave is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to imprisonment for less than two years or to less punishment.

(2) A person absents himself without leave who

(a) without authority leaves his place of duty;

(b) without authority is absent from his place of duty; or

(c) having been authorized to be absent from his place of duty, fails to return to his place of duty at the expiration of the period for which the absence of that person was authorized."

NOTES

(A) The offence of absence without leave is defined in subsection 90(2) of the National Defence Act. When the offence has been committed it is regarded as continuing until such time as the absentee returns to the absentee’s place of duty or until the absence ceases to be "without authority". Accordingly, the circumstances under which it was committed, the length of the absence and the circumstances of its termination, e.g., by apprehension or surrender, are material to the gravity of the offence and taken into consideration for this purpose and for administrative purposes, having regard to the effect on pay which is a consequence of a conviction for this offence.
 
(B) A person who escapes from custody and thus absents himself without leave may legally be charged and convicted of both offences; but as a rule, it is preferable to charge only the absence without leave, alleging in the particulars, for purposes of increasing the gravity of the offence, that it was committed "when in custody".

(C) An officer or non-commissioned member charged with desertion or attempted desertion may, under section 133 of the National Defence Act (see article 103.62 – Conviction of Related or Less Offences), be found guilty of absence without leave; but if charged only with absence without leave he cannot be convicted of desertion or attempted desertion.
 
So a once common scenario of the Soldier leaving all his 'Kit' in his room, with his Dog Tags and ID Card neatly placed on his bed, and then taking off to parts unknown would upon arrest by the Police or MPs be charged at the CO's 'Discretion'.
 
Bubba.....
The final shootout was in the woods of Maryland
female State trooper was really pissed that he shot at her

I had heard that he had been thrown into the can for 15 - 20 yrs

but can't remember what year (exact) it happened ....

Certainly was a career move.
 
What was his "partner's" name?  The pair of them deserted 'departed' from London, and were involved with a few crimes in Toronto, before fleeing to the US.
 
Spring of '92, IIRC.

Nelson and Shoemaker were from 1 RCR.  Toronto cop approaches them in a downtown parking lot. One pulls out his ID card when asked, the other pulls a pistol. Gunfire ensues (again, IIRC), the pair flee, leaving behind one CF ID card.

1 RCR has a battalion muster parade the next morning to determine who's missing, one known and the second confirmed at that time.

They cut out to the US where they meet up with the Maryland officer, have another engagement and end up in cells there.

(AWL, but not 'desertion.')
 
yeah.... MPs were rooting around Montreal - expecting him to head for home.
There was considerable interrogation of people in his former Reserve unit.
 
There was a supposed hit list of nco's he was goin after in the battalion.Guess he wasn't all bad ;D ;) ;)Little bit of dark humor, relax.
 
Just so the record is straight on the Schumacher/Nelson AWOL situation here it is in Coles notes format, I recall it well as he was in CFRS around the same time as me and I knew people in his battalion in London.

He served as a reservist from 88 to 89 where he earned a reputation as a bit of a gun nut. He wanted to use the military as a stepping stone to join the RCMP.

When Gulf war 1 broke out, he was dissapointed in our prime minister's decison to not deploy front line troops in a real war (where we would have stolen the show, and proven oursleves a very small but highly lethal army). It was a let down for anybody who was gung ho and ready to do their bit, (join the club Eric).

He was known to watch clock work orange in the barracks over and over and over (why didn't anybody clue in and get him some serious conseling at this point? Did anybody make an attmept to report this awkward behavior??). He was also known to like to pick fights (but only ones which he knew he could win.)

Some equipment went missing from a brigade ex in or around spring 1991, allegations were made, his name came up.

The friday night after the ex ended, he was seen leaving the barracks wearing his favorite T shirt, James Bond 007 (Eric had a fantasy about becoming a professional merc).

Days after he and Nelson left the barracks and were AWOL, the troops allegedly broke into their rooms and looted their contents.

And the rest, as they say, is history. I kept the article, which I found Intriguing to say the least.

I heard from some other people that he was somewhere in Montreal now, living in a halfway house.

His mother despises the Military, she blames the system for driving him insane and not providing him with the adequate resources to deal with his issues....but then again the "old army" was like that....which is why I never refer to those times as "the good old days"...they were "the old days, period". Looking back as an older guy, there wasn't much good about them, the army was band of pirates and nobody had the courage to bring that house into order......until very recently.

Does anyone care to confirm the above allegations?
 
"as a bit of a gun nut."

- As compared to a 'Legitimate Firearms Enthusiast.'

- I notice the old SOP of breaking into an AWOLs SQ and liberating and selling their kit.  This is an old barracks tradition meant to make up for the fact that the AWOL has saddled his cohort with the weekend duties he can no longer do.  Fair is fair.

- As for the bad old days, I pretty much agree, but we STILL do not give our recruits a psychological examination.  This criminally negligent policy cost us an Airborne Regiment, and we will continue to pay.

Tom
 
Wasn't there a sig op who crossed the wall in Germany back in the 70's?then asked to come home in the 90's when his dad pased away.
 
Michael O'Leary said:
...1 RCR has a battalion muster parade the next morning to determine who's missing, one known and the second confirmed at that time.

And IIRC we were a bit excited about that as the only reason we could think of for the muster parade was that perhaps the balloon had gone up somewhere and we were being deployed. We were instead treated to a tirade from the RSM about disgraces to the regiment, and that we all knew what he was talking about. We were then marched back to the shacks by our NCOs and are rooms were inspected (for those 2 and perhaps weapons), it was only at that point that we had a chance to ask what was going on, as it was news to us too.
 
Johnny Canuck71 said:
Just so the record is straight on the Schumacher/Nelson AWOL situation here it is in Coles notes format, I recall it well as he was in CFRS around the same time as me and I knew people in his battalion in London.

He served as a reservist from 88 to 89 where he earned a reputation as a bit of a gun nut. He wanted to use the military as a stepping stone to join the RCMP.

When Gulf war 1 broke out, he was dissapointed in our prime minister's decison to not deploy front line troops in a real war (where we would have stolen the show, and proven oursleves a very small but highly lethal army). It was a let down for anybody who was gung ho and ready to do their bit, (join the club Eric).

He was known to watch clock work orange in the barracks over and over and over (why didn't anybody clue in and get him some serious conseling at this point? Did anybody make an attmept to report this awkward behavior??). He was also known to like to pick fights (but only ones which he knew he could win.)

Some equipment went missing from a brigade ex in or around spring 1991, allegations were made, his name came up.

The friday night after the ex ended, he was seen leaving the barracks wearing his favorite T shirt, James Bond 007 (Eric had a fantasy about becoming a professional merc).

Days after he and Nelson left the barracks and were AWOL, the troops allegedly broke into their rooms and looted their contents.

And the rest, as they say, is history. I kept the article, which I found Intriguing to say the least.

I heard from some other people that he was somewhere in Montreal now, living in a halfway house.

His mother despises the Military, she blames the system for driving him insane and not providing him with the adequate resources to deal with his issues....but then again the "old army" was like that....which is why I never refer to those times as "the good old days"...they were "the old days, period". Looking back as an older guy, there wasn't much good about them, the army was band of pirates and nobody had the courage to bring that house into order......until very recently.

Does anyone care to confirm the above allegations?

Schumacher served in the same unit I started off with in (1970).
Gun nut?... somewhat. He had a bizzare sense of humour from what some of my friends have related. Would walk onto a subway station's platform and relate to his companions that it would be "great" to set up a GPMG and mow down the worker bees spilling out of the subway cars....
After he did his deed in Toronto, the MPs & SIU visited pert much all members of his former Reserve unit. The homes of some friends were staked out... no nibble.

With respect to where he happens to be - from what I know he was never trialed for what he did to the Toronto police officer. I believe he is still doing his time in a Maryland pen for having winged a State trooper.
 
Heeeey.... wasn't there a Demolitions Sgt from JTF2 that went over the hill in Thailand for something like a year? This is after the 1st mission to Afghanistan, once everyone went off on leave. He's back in Canada now if my memory is up to speed.
 
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