RCMP Commissioner Lucki Stepping Down

[brihard]

The old testing scheme in use until the mid 2010s placed people into pools by a series of scores off their total package.

So visible minorities had their own pool. Women. Other minorities.

All had to exceed the minimum score- a set mark in the sand. But in order to compete in their pool they had to be competitive against others in their pool. So where you had a ton of applicants the average test score would creep higher- and the other pools would be lower. All had to hit the minimum- but not everyone was competitive on the same list. The pool that required the higher scores would tend to be the white male demographic because the overwhelming majority of applicants fell in that pool. They may have called it something other than “pools” I’m sure that is offensive some how- it’s just the real terminology evading me at the moment.

So if the pass mark was a 3.0, women might need 3.05 and indigenous may be 3.02 and white males needing a 3.1+ to compete in their pool. To be completely honest while there was a variety of numbers it was never anything so extreme as like white dudes needed a 4 and everyone else needed a 3. It’s was relatively small- but it is enough that there are a lot of high school educated 19 year olds that apply and are frustrated that their applications strength isn’t what they need. It’s not a hard or high standard but if you disrespect it as a given it will surprise you. There was people ejecting from the process in every pool I had some insight in to- there just happen to be more young white fellers because more of them applied. A lot of them shocked that graduating at 17- two years in “police foundations” while they drank their faces off wasn’t enough to compete.

The new system I haven’t been involved in- so I’m not totally sure how it’s merited- but I imagine since we still have goals for diversity it would resemble the same process.

Police foundations is such a friggin’ scam. I remember when I was doing my degree, before ever getting in, we had a senior police officer come and talk to one of my classes. The subject of PF came up and he made a comment to the effect that about 10% of PF graduates would get into a police force reasonably immediately, and about 30% ever. The colleges must make a killing off of it.

 

[Booter]

Police foundations is such a friggin’ scam. I remember when I was doing my degree, before ever getting in, we had a senior police officer come and talk to one of my classes. The subject of PF came up and he made a comment to the effect that about 10% of PF graduates would get into a police force reasonably immediately, and about 30% ever. The colleges must make a killing off of it.

They do. It’s a crazy money maker- and a complete scam. The statistics aren’t in their favour- you’ll notice that the majority when discussing their placement and employment rates discuss “the industry” as including security and everything that includes even minor enforcement. I ve talked to several university and college programs and classes and always advise people to study something they are interested in and employable beyond the industry in case it doesn’t work out.

 

[brihard]

They do. It’s a crazy money maker- and a complete scam. The statistics aren’t in their favour- you’ll notice that the majority when discussing their placement and employment rates discuss “the industry” as including security and everything that includes even minor enforcement. I ve talked to several university and college programs and classes and always advise people to study something they are interested in and employable beyond the industry in case it doesn’t work out.

I’ve got enough service now that my LinkedIn account has started getting more interesting job suggestions. I’m not actually looking for anything, but it’s interesting to glance at sometimes. I’ve had Police Foundations contract instructor pop up a few times now. Hard pass.

 

[Booter]

I’ve got enough service now that my LinkedIn account has started getting more interesting job suggestions. I’m not actually looking for anything, but it’s interesting to glance at sometimes. I’ve had Police Foundations contract instructor pop up a few times now. Hard pass.

Teach a class if you get a chance and it works for your family. You have a lot of experience now- I’d take a gander off your class.

And you can use it to get the kids doing something that is better for them. Your badge of honour will be not being invited back!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I can do worse then Police Foundations......much bigger scam is a two year Corrections Course. Unfreakin real.

I remember shitting on a couple instructors way back near the beginning of my career when they came to check up on the job placement students.
"How can you look in the mirror in the morning knowing you're stealing their money?"

At the time when you got hired it was one week classroom, two weeks shadowing a unit, and fourth week you were working.

Two freakin' years!!!

 

[Booter]

I can do worse then Police Foundations......much bigger scam is a two year Corrections Course. Unfreakin real.

I remember shitting on a couple instructors way back near the beginning of my career when they came to check up on the job placement students.
"How can you look in the mirror in the morning knowing you're stealing their money?"

At the time when you got hired it was one week classroom, two weeks shadowing a unit, and fourth week you were working.

Two freakin' years!!!

I have one of those diplomas, I use my education money program every year. As such I’ve created a pretty long it’s of post secondary odds and ends. I’m in total agreement with you.

It is an easy credential to roll into a four year criminology degree, but even those…

 

[brihard]

Teach a class if you get a chance and it works for your family. You have a lot of experience now- I’d take a gander off your class.

And you can use it to get the kids doing something that is better for them. Your badge of honour will be not being invited back!

I try to do my instructing during work hours, and take courses on my own time (but the employer’s money). I got into instructing UoF/firearms and R2MR early on thanks to my CAF experience, now I’m shifting my side-of-my-desk teaching time more to the investigative side when opportunity allows.

I think our various academies, in-service training, and CPC do a pretty good job. Enough to make Police a foundations a waste. I wouldn’t want to give my time to something I don’t value.

 

[mariomike]

At the time when you got hired it was one week classroom, two weeks shadowing a unit, and fourth week you were working.

I went to Six Points. There was slide show. Colour blindness test, and some reading, writing and arithmetic test.

After some training, I was turning keys. It was a good job, with a good bunch of guys.

 

[RedFive]

Bullshit. Your neighbours‘ son was found either unsuitable or insufficiently competitive for other reasons. If the former, probably something he did and never shared with his parents.

I’ve done a fair bit of cop stuff now in the past decade. We (white males) are still a majority of serving police and new recruits, and are grossly overrepresented in comparison to the wider population. My recruit class graduated 27; 14 white males and 13 others. White males are a bit less than 35% of the population but were more than 50% of my graduating class. Other classes I’ve seen go through were similar.

“White males need not apply” is a tired lament we typically hear from people who simply couldn’t get picked up for the job. Even with hiring having dropped considerably, there are standards still in place. If anything, the current desperation for the profession to hire suggests that he was probably turned away for suitability rather than competitiveness.

I'll generally agree, but I also have first hand info from a former colleague of mine where a family friend's son, who would be the third generation of RCMP from that family and who has catered his entire young adult life to a job with the force was straight up told by an unnamed E Division recruiter he probably wasn't going to get a date to go to Depot because he was straight, white, only spoke one language and he should look elsewhere if law enforcement was his dream. He wasn't deferred or denied, just told that he was successfully through the process but unlikely to secure a spot on a Troop.

At the same time, I was at PRTC (formerly CFB Chilliwack for those that aren't RCMP) for my yearly firearms qualifications, and I was told by a Depot facilitator on loan there that troops were being cancelled/pushed back altogether unless they met certain criteria based on gender, ethnicity, sexuality and/or language skills.

So yes. There are plenty of people out there that play victim when they don't get hired. But I have it first hand from two reliable sources that the gender/ethnicity/minority game is actively being played by the RCMP, to the detriment of the members in the field desperate for more members, no matter who they share a bed with, choose to worship or their skin colour.

 

[brihard]

I'll generally agree, but I also have first hand info from a former colleague of mine where a family friend's son, who would be the third generation of RCMP from that family and who has catered his entire young adult life to a job with the force was straight up told by an unnamed E Division recruiter he probably wasn't going to get a date to go to Depot because he was straight, white, only spoke one language and he should look elsewhere if law enforcement was his dream. He wasn't deferred or denied, just told that he was successfully through the process but unlikely to secure a spot on a Troop.

What ended up happening to him? If he was successfully through the entire process and simply waiting to be sent on training, eventually he would either be sent, or would be told best of luck, or would go elsewhere of his own accord? Straight white unilingual males from BC aren’t exactly rare in the RCMP, or municipal services within British Columbia.

At the same time, I was at PRTC (formerly CFB Chilliwack for those that aren't RCMP) for my yearly firearms qualifications, and I was told by a Depot facilitator on loan there that troops were being cancelled/pushed back altogether unless they met certain criteria based on gender, ethnicity, sexuality and/or language skills.

Trying to make sure I understand this- you’re referring to recruit classes being delayed until enough non-white-make cadets had been enrolled to diversify an individual class?

So yes. There are plenty of people out there that play victim when they don't get hired. But I have it first hand from two reliable sources that the gender/ethnicity/minority game is actively being played by the RCMP, to the detriment of the members in the field desperate for more members, no matter who they share a bed with, choose to worship or their skin colour.

I believe that equity considerations are a part of hiring and recruit loading, I’m just not buying the assertion made upthread that ‘white males need not apply’. Again, the demographics of recruits and serving police simply belies that.

 

[mariomike]

But I have it first hand from two reliable sources that the gender/ethnicity/minority game is actively being played by the RCMP, to the detriment of the members in the field desperate for more members, no matter who they share a bed with, choose to worship or their skin colour.

Reminds me what the doctor asked when I did my PRes medical. "Do you like girls?"

 

[Booter]

At the same time, I was at PRTC (formerly CFB Chilliwack for those that aren't RCMP) for my yearly firearms qualifications, and I was told by a Depot facilitator on loan there that troops were being cancelled/pushed back altogether unless they met certain criteria based on gender, ethnicity, sexuality and/or language skills.

I’m not doubting your experience/conversations. But That runs contrary to my own experience/conversations with their skills NCOs and senior officers in conversation from around a month ago.

I do believe this is a common thing said.

I’m never shocked anymore. Depot is in bad shape troop wise. Still a lot of white guys- in the few troops on base.

 

[RedFive]

What ended up happening to him? If he was successfully through the entire process and simply waiting to be sent on training, eventually he would either be sent, or would be told best of luck, or would go elsewhere of his own accord? Straight white unilingual males from BC aren’t exactly rare in the RCMP, or municipal services within British Columbia.



Trying to make sure I understand this- you’re referring to recruit classes being delayed until enough non-white-make cadets had been enrolled to diversify an individual class?



I believe that equity considerations are a part of hiring and recruit loading, I’m just not buying the assertion made upthread that ‘white males need not apply’. Again, the demographics of recruits and serving police simply belies that.

He went elsewhere, having listened to the recruiter and was hired by a Muni on his first attempt.

That was my understanding having spoken to this facilitator. No troop would go ahead unless the make up was meeting the desired numbers for diversity.

I agree with you, because I made it through. But discrimination is discrimination, and we should be hiring the best possible candidates in every case. I'll stop short of what the best candidate looks like, because that's dangerous territory to get in to and I'm fresh off a badly understaffed night shift and don't have the ability to articulate my thoughts well. Given how short we are, we need anybody who passes the application process, quotas and diversity be damned. I know too many members who thundered in trying to keep up with the workload given how short staffed we are. Some are off temporarily, at least one will probably face the end of their career.

Enough. Send backup. I don't care who they are or what they look like as long as they're trained, capable and reliable.

 

[Booter]

He went elsewhere, having listened to the recruiter and was hired by a Muni on his first attempt.

That was my understanding having spoken to this facilitator. No troop would go ahead unless the make up was meeting the desired numbers for diversity.

I agree with you, because I made it through. But discrimination is discrimination, and we should be hiring the best possible candidates in every case. I'll stop short of what the best candidate looks like, because that's dangerous territory to get in to and I'm fresh off a badly understaffed night shift and don't have the ability to articulate my thoughts well. Given how short we are, we need anybody who passes the application process, quotas and diversity be damned. I know too many members who thundered in trying to keep up with the workload given how short staffed we are. Some are off temporarily, at least one will probably face the end of their career.

Enough. Send backup. I don't care who they are or what they look like as long as they're trained, capable and reliable.

100% on the sentiment red.

 

[brihard]

He went elsewhere, having listened to the recruiter and was hired by a Muni on his first attempt.

That was my understanding having spoken to this facilitator. No troop would go ahead unless the make up was meeting the desired numbers for diversity.

I agree with you, because I made it through. But discrimination is discrimination, and we should be hiring the best possible candidates in every case. I'll stop short of what the best candidate looks like, because that's dangerous territory to get in to and I'm fresh off a badly understaffed night shift and don't have the ability to articulate my thoughts well. Given how short we are, we need anybody who passes the application process, quotas and diversity be damned. I know too many members who thundered in trying to keep up with the workload given how short staffed we are. Some are off temporarily, at least one will probably face the end of their career.

Enough. Send backup. I don't care who they are or what they look like as long as they're trained, capable and reliable.

100% on the sentiment red.

Absolutely. You guys are doing magnificently holding it down out there.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I have a familial connection to a pathetically understaffed detachment in a far Northern community. There's enough mental stress up there for a fully manned (personned?) crew. They are not that. It's a MH timebomb up there and they have a hard time getting anyone to want to go. I'm sure they wouldn't give a crap about the colour of their skin or how they like to employ their genitals as long as they can do the job.

 

[YZT580]

Bullshit. Your neighbours‘ son was found either unsuitable or insufficiently competitive for other reasons. If the former, probably something he did and never shared with his parents.

I’ve done a fair bit of cop stuff now in the past decade. We (white males) are still a majority of serving police and new recruits, and are grossly overrepresented in comparison to the wider population. My recruit class graduated 27; 14 white males and 13 others. White males are a bit less than 35% of the population but were more than 50% of my graduating class. Other classes I’ve seen go through were similar.

“White males need not apply” is a tired lament we typically hear from people who simply couldn’t get picked up for the job. Even with hiring having dropped considerably, there are standards still in place. If anything, the current desperation for the profession to hire suggests that he was probably turned away for suitability rather than competitiveness.

so why are you crying bullshit. You explained in very simple terms about two hours later exactly what he encountered. Just that little bit extra. What is needed is a system where there is no colour, no sex until after the final interview. I don't know how you would do it I just know it would be a whole bunch more honest for ALL.

 

[YZT580]

Police foundations is such a friggin’ scam. I remember when I was doing my degree, before ever getting in, we had a senior police officer come and talk to one of my classes. The subject of PF came up and he made a comment to the effect that about 10% of PF graduates would get into a police force reasonably immediately, and about 30% ever. The colleges must make a killing off of it.

Sounds like the Seneca pilot training course.

 

[Booter]

so why are you crying bullshit. You explained in very simple terms about two hours later exactly what he encountered. Just that little bit extra. What is needed is a system where there is no colour, no sex until after the final interview. I don't know how you would do it I just know it would be a whole bunch more honest for ALL.

Let’s start here-
What is the most valuable trait of a police applicant? Like when we design our hypothetical hiring process- what three traits should we start with.

Mine would be, courageous/honest/empathetic.

What are yours? Let’s come up with some traits and see how we would hire these folks.

 

[brihard]

so why are you crying bullshit. You explained in very simple terms about two hours later exactly what he encountered. Just that little bit extra. What is needed is a system where there is no colour, no sex until after the final interview. I don't know how you would do it I just know it would be a whole bunch more honest for ALL.

Your words:

yet our neighbour's son couldn't get taken on by any of the south-western Ontario forces because he didn't meet the ethnic requirements

What you described, and what several of us in the profession have described, are very different things. If he couldn’t get hired anywhere in the most populous part of Canada in a span of two years, it ain’t the colour of his skin. That’s a lot of different services, some of which aren’t exactly bastions of equity. He either wasn’t competitive (and I mean REALLY not), or he had something in his background that recruiters learned and that he chose not to share with his family. “They said don’t bother because I’m a white male” is a common cover for both.

Again, white males are the largest demographic in policing and we’re grossly overrepresented compared to the population at large. Quality candidates who apply to several services and stick it out eventually get hired.