Previous drug use question 2002 - 2018 [Merged]

[Armymedic]

How about Heroin, or crack..will they take you if you have done those drugs? How about booze? What if you Drink a ton a booze on a daily basis?

What kinda topic is this. It should be self explanatory that if you eat a hoarse tranquilizer, for a period of time, your brain starts to dissolve. If your brain dissolves, it ain't coming back.

Hence, the military does not want you running around the world, with a weapon shooting at people, or fixing an airplane that delivers aid, or giving first-aid to wounded colleague...get with it. If you have done LSD, ACID, Shrooms, PCP, Angel dust, Heroin, Crack....and you tell your recruiter that you have abused them, THEY WILL NOT HIRE YOU. If they do, I have no comment on that.

OK Harrier101 let me lay this down for you....

1. Are you a recruiter? No? Then don't make those judgements....
2. While some say that prior behavior is an indicator of future behavior the military has policy (hence my post above) to handle situations of drug, Alcohol etc abuse,
3. People, generally, when told there is a strict anti drug policy in the CF will stay away from it because they don't want to lose their hard earned job and its $$$ and, most importantly,
4. Some of the best soldiers I know, prior to thier Basic Tng smoked up, snorted and ate some weird stuff I never even heard of....

My experience was on my first day of Basic tng (Cornwallis 16 + yrs ago) we were given 15 min to go thru our gear and deposit anything that may be contraband into a large garbage can on the floor. If any was found in our pers belongings after, we would be hung....

After one class we were formed up and marched back to our barracks where we were confronted by the Course WO holding a open wad of brownish cake material wrapped in tin foil....All he said was"Whoever this belong to, good you got rid of it now. You may be hurting in about a week without it....my door is open." Never heard another word about it.

Now CDNblackhawk...you've already been jacked for the lying comment so I won't touch that.

My one question to you is: what possessed you to do some of this hard Drugs. I realise everyone makes mistakes, but as some point you must have realised that it was going to affect your future.

Also think of it this way, would you want someone defending your country and carrying assult rifles if they were all jacked up on crank?

As a leader, I can assure you that nobody, I SAY AGAIN, NOBODYget close to weapons while under the condition you mentioned above. First, can an addict make it thru Basic and qualification training? not likely. Do you think guys can repeatedly use drugs, or repeatedly misuse alcohol without his supervisor picking up on it....We do notice things, and if we don't I am sure the police report received by the RSM will definitely send up the red light.

 

[tree hugger]

Hence, the military does not want you running around the world, with a weapon shooting at people, or fixing an airplane that delivers aid, or giving first-aid to wounded colleague...get with it. If you have done LSD, ACID, Shrooms, PCP, Angel dust, Heroin, Crack....and you tell your recruiter that you have abused them, THEY WILL NOT HIRE YOU. If they do, I have no comment on that.

Harrier101:  Really, if you don't know what you're talking about don't say anything.  For some of the drugs you mentioned, you only need to be clean for three years prior to applying for the military.
When I saw your post, I checked out your profile and found it empty...surprise!

 

[GrahamD]

Im going to post a link to a resource I frequently use to end arguments about the effects of drugs, both the real negative attributes, and the popular myths.
It is by no means the end word on the subject, but it is very thourough, including detailed information about drugs ranging from the chemical composition, to the clinical description of effects and side effects, and even personal testimonials from users themselves.  Most (I think pretty much all) of the popular drugs are listed, and some that you may never have even heard of.  There is more information available in certain drug catagories than others, but this is because some of the drugs listed are still relatively new and it seems that the site operator is interested in presenting fact and not speculation.
  Although there is some pro "natural" drug sentiment expressed throughout the site, and also some anti "chemical" drug sentiment, I do feel that throughout the pages of this website, there is the underlying message about education and fact.

Of particular interest to many people on this site may be the myth about hallucinogenics and flashbacks.  Flashbacks are extremely uncommon, even in long term chronic users of hallucinogenic drugs.  And of the few who suffer from flashbacks, most of those suffer them only within 3 months or less of last taking the drug.
If you're talking about a kid who wants to join the army who may have tried acid a few times but has been clean for 2 years, then this extreme paranoia about "druggies" marching over the world with assault rifles in their hand potentially about to suffer a mind shattering flashback, is borderline hysteria in my opinion. Hallucinogenics are known to cause depression and anxiety in many users even after only a few doses, and anxiety attacks can commonly be misconstrued as a "flashback".  Changes in blood pressure, visual disturbances, physical reactions including nausea, vomiting, weakness in extremities, uncontrollable shaking, and even panic involving the "fight or flight" reaction, can all be brought on by a severe enough anxiety attack.
None of which is desireable in a combat situation, but the reality is that pretty much anyone can have the same anxiety in a dire enough circumstance.  I would suggest an infrequent former user is only extremely marginally more at risk for such an attack than someone who has never done drugs, especially if there is no history of anxiety prior to enlistment.

I'm not advocating drug use at all, least of all hallucinogenics, but I think that the talk about having files shredded because of former drug use is essentially the same as suggesting that you lie to the interviewer about your past.  If you're not cool with someone who has abused drugs getting into the military, then you should just let the recruiting proccess weed those people out.
This talk about "junkies" watching your back overseas is just a waste of breath.  I know of people who never did drugs until AFTER they joined up.  It's going to happen, you're going to have to deal with some people who may be on drugs, or may have done them in the past.  The only thing you can do about it is to educate yourself on the subject and deal with the problems it causes as they arise.

Anyway, here's the link, and as I said it's by no means the last word on drugs, but I have found that all of the information I've reviewed can be verified from other sources.
http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/psychoactives.shtml

 

[CDNBlackhawk]

Obviously you missed my point and only read the one line on that whole post, i was not advocating lyeing in anyway, i was trying to  make him see both sides of the equation, obviously the way i did it was poorly thought out though. Again, i used poor choice of words.

 

[Scott]

Back on thread, if you are worried about something you may have done in the past, and this goes for drugs, crime, etc, talk it over with the recruiters.

Cheers

 

[Budgie]

So I have my medical tomorrow... I'm a little nervous mainly because I hate doctors but could someone please tell me a basic rundown of what's going to  happen? I'd sure appreciate it.
Thanks in advance  ;D

 

[casing]

Not likely that you'll actually see a Doctor, so don't sweat it.

    1. Arrive
    2. Fill out a questionnaire (medical history stuff)
    3. Pee in a cup
    4. Have your weight taken
    5. Have your blood pressure taken
    6. Do a vision test (for acuity and colour)
    7. Do a hearing test (press the button when you hear a beep)
    8. See a senior medic
    9. Hop up on a table after partly stripping down
  10. Be physically inspected (minimal touching (ie: feel near your ribs, ask you to cough),
        visual (ie: "what's that scar from?") and joint movements)
  11. Stand up, bend over and touch your toes
  12. Squat
  13. Walk and press up against a wall
  14. Go over the answers to your questionnaire
  15. Leave

Nothing to it.

Edit: Modified the above list to add two things I forgot (blood pressure, and feeling ribs do a cough).   Thanks for the correction, Inch.

 

[Budgie]

Thank you so much!  I feel alot better knowing what I'm walking into

 

[Inch]

They checked for hernias too when I did mine.  That's where they hold their hand against your abs and ask you to cough to check if your intestines try to pop out through a hole in your abdominal wall. Could be just an aircrew thing though.

Cheers

 

[trebor8301]

Well thank you guys for your answer's  i do apperciate it . Frist for everyone to  know i aint gonna LIE,i'm an honnest hard working person trying to take charge of my future. I strongly disagree with dicrimilisation and drug use , i hope our socitey will continue this fight and not give in , cause i certanily regret anything that i did. However i can;t return to the pass and change anything , so i must go foward .I hope by the time my son reaches his teen years there wont be any drugs and he'll be smarter than his old man.

And for those who think i'm i gonna have a flashback and go pycho on my fellow team members from a flashback i think you guy are completely OVER REACTING . i have been on hard drugs in a stressfull enviorment (fights,ppl screwing me over, and many more situations) with a weapon and i never shot anyone or even pulled it out! . I have always been a well displined person, And what about ALCHOOL how ppl kill each other or get into fight or just simply in trouble cause of it. I Know many alcohlics and Druggies and not trying to defend the druggies but they are alot more in control .

Why did i touch the stuff , well lets make this fast my mother was a high member in organized crime so i have always  been exposed to drugs ,weapons and death so it only became natural to me. it wasn;t till i got older and i decided that there was more to life than what i knew so i stoped all the had shit eventually the pot and even ciggs, went to school and gratuated with 80's got the highest history exam mark in my schools history.

KIds on drugs need help they dont know how to stop , and they have to see thats there more to life than just getting high. and they must want to change.
YOU CANT HELP SOMEBODY UNLESS THIER WILLING TO HELP THEMSELFES!!

thanks for your repplies every one !

for those

 

[Harrier101]

Really, if you don't know what you're talking about don't say anything.  For some of the drugs you mentioned, you only need to be clean for three years prior to applying for the military.
When I saw your post, I checked out your profile and found it empty...surprise

Sorry, you are all right.

1)I do NOT know what I am talking about
2)I am NOT a recruiter.
3)After not doing those kinds of drugs for a period of 3 years, the Military WILL accept you.

Wrong.

Firstly, My profile is just that. MINE. Not yours, and I chose not to share it with you. Just as I have chosen not to do those kinds of narcotics.

1)Dabble in a little pot in high school, fine, to be doing it as an adult habitually, is wrong. And the Canadian Forces should not hire you. It is a poor choice, and reflects on you character. At least it does with my employer. So I do have an idea about what I am talking about.

2)I am in a position of hiring and firing with my present employer, so yes, I have a fair idea of recruiting practices and Human Resources management. And the question of narcotics does come up in the Interview, so I have a fair Idea of what an employer is looking for in a new employee. Also, I am a taxpayer, as are all of you, and I do pay a portion of my federal tax to the armed forces of this country, and as a voter, and taxpayer, I would not want an addict, past or present to be a representative in my country's armed forces.

3)Maybe the wording of that post should have been something like...."If I was a recruiter, which I am not, I would not hire someone who has made the decision to use a chemical, to alter ones state of mind. Once, was an experiment.....twice.... you liked it the first time. And the possibility exists for you to be tempted to do it again, maybe the night before going on exercise, or changing out one of the the fuel pumps on an Allison turboprop, or pulling guard duty at the main gate to the safe confines of a secure military base." Will you take the risk of working beside a past drug addict. I would think it to be a little unsafe, especially when I have to rely on this person for my safety. No thanks.

And I am still shaking my head that some of you, honestly believe that it's okay to have abused hard drugs, chemicals, and apply to the military. It's okay to have abused hard drugs that can result in a sort of flashback, years down the road. By the way, simple cold medicine, or whatever those US Air National Guard guys were on while flying around in F-16's in Afghanistan...."Ooooooo, look at the pretty lights down there. They must be shooting at us"......and look at that tragic result. The abuse of hard chemical's on a regular basis, past and present, that alter your capacity will not get you hired into the Canadian Armed Forces. Fact.

 

[badapple]

And I am still shaking my head that some of you, honestly believe that it's okay to have abused hard drugs, chemicals, and apply to the military. It's okay to have abused hard drugs that can result in a sort of flashback, years down the road. By the way, simple cold medicine, or whatever those US Air National Guard guys were on while flying around in F-16's in Afghanistan...."Ooooooo, look at the pretty lights down there. They must be shooting at us"......and look at that tragic result. The abuse of hard chemical's on a regular basis, past and present, that alter your capacity will not get you hired into the Canadian Armed Forces. Fact.

That is a very inaccurate view of what really happened.  Mistakes happen, if those were canadian pilots you would be singing a different tune.  Am i an american lover, no, but i am a friend of CPL Brett Perry and knew him when we were kids, who was one of the wounded in the attack, so this misinformed comment of yours strikes a bad chord with me 

CLearly another example of you speaking on an issue you know nothing or very little about.


On a seperate note, i have smoked pot in the past and overcame a huge gambling addiction, when discussing this with interviewer, he made several comments about former users/abusers having way STRONGER character for the hurdles that they have overcome

 

[badapple]

Once, was an experiment.....twice.... you liked it the first time. And the possibility exists for you to be tempted to do it again,

this is not really fair either, that just because someone did something twice means they liked it the first time, ever have sex with someone a second time in which the first encounter was rather unexciting???  Did liking it the first time factor in your decision or did you want to improve on the first experience??  One thing you can never KNOW about a person, only believe what they tell you, is their motivations for thier actions.  Even the courts have ruled that crimes such as murder and manslaughter may have pre-existing factors which factored into thier decision making at the moment.  If you have "no means no" mentality when picking your "recruits" for what ever company you work for, you may be missing out on some very developed people with life experience, while picking people who are to afraid to think outside the box.  But then again, people pick similar people to themselves, which is evident here.

Sorry if im sounding harsh, just doesn't seem that you're considering a few factors.

 

[rdschultz]

People with no drug using experience aren't necessarily "afraid to think outside the box".  They aren't the only ones capable of having life experience.  Those classifications are no different than someone else saying "anybody with a history of drug use is going to get trippy on the battlefield". 

On the other hand, I don't think someone who smoked pot a few times in high school should be excluded from selection because of that fact alone.  It should be a consideration at some level (which gets into the risky logical grounds of "if you were willing to break the law before, does that make you more willing now?"), but there are many more important factors that should be considered first. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

This seems to be a pretty chaotic point when joining the army. I've spoken with someone who addmitted to using pot a year before applying and they let him in. I've also spoken with a girl who was apparently not allowed in the forces because she admitted to using pot 2 and a half years prior, they told her to wait 6 months.
This is a question you won't be able to get a straight answer from on this site. You'll need to go to the recruiting center and ask them. The answer you get might even change from center to center.

My opinion since you guys were rude enough not to ask
people experiment, no big deal. I drink though i've never touched druhgs in my life. Someone doesn't need to try drugs to experience life, thats retarded. You gotta own up to what you do. Don't say oh i only tried drugs because of this or that or i was just trying it out. You tried drugs, period. Excuses only fool one person.

Unfortinuatly some people will be held accountable for the indisressions they made when they were younger.
If you did crazy hard core drugs, liked to set things on fire or tried to kill your babysitter with a pen because the dog told you to, theres probably a chance people aren't gonna look at you and say "hey whats the big deal, we were all kids once".

i was a pretty good kid. is it fair someone who was a complete criminal drug head demon as a teenager not be held a little accountable for their actions? I don't think so.  I'm not saying anyone who tried drugs is bad. people make mistakes. However, sometimes saying sorry doesn't fix it.

 

[mike62]

A decision to do drugs can effect you for the rest of your life.....and career.......I  am no angel....but drug free........I have seen career's ruined over it, and lives lost......it is not worth it.........

 

[badapple]

im not claiming to have it all figured out but another aspect is whether morality is the issue or criminal activity because i seriously doubt it's an issue of safety in all but extreme cases.  As previously mentioned, "stories" about "flashbacks" are way overstated.  If its an issue of the potential candate doing a crime, then what happens when cannabis is legalized???  If its an issue of morality, then what about people who are in the service but do some VERY immoral things, yet marginally legal??

Ive had this arguement with people who say its about choices, and that people who make bad choices are more likely to do them again.  ok, so why then the credit check?? some will say that poor credit represents people who make poor choices.  If thats the motivating factor in doing credit checks then why would they let you in as soon as you have resolved them?  The point, which seems obvious to me, is that they, (the recruiters) are looking for people without baggage, yes drugs are baggage, yes creditors hounding you are baggage, but a potential recruit who did acid(an apparent disqualifying hallucinagenic) once when he was a kid, and smoked pot in high school, is not a kid with baggage, he is a kid who has had some hurdles in life and learned, or at a minimum, overcame from them.  A person who has overcome issues in their life, and who can handle some extreme situations is someone i would go into combat with, ANYDAY.

lastly

IMHO, People who've had thier mind "blown" will handle the next mind blowing event better, ie, if you've ever seen someone OD on something and have had to deal with it, may react better when buddy has his guts spilling out in the field.  In other words, if you become used to extreme situations, you'll be more calm and cool in future extreme situations.

rambled, i know

peace

 

[badapple]

The answer you get might even change from center to center.

obviously this is wrong too, people should have the same requirements, and standards regardless of where they go, but ofcourse with the human element in the selection process, and the ussual percect of fuckups, centers often let people in who shouldn't be, and vice versa

 

[Jarnhamar]

A person who has overcome issues in their life, and who can handle some extreme situations is someone i would go into combat with, ANYDAY.

Are you in the military Badapple?

lastly

IMHO, People who've had thier mind "blown" will handle the next mind blowing event better, ie, if you've ever seen someone OD on something and have had to deal with it, may react better when buddy has his guts spilling out in the field.  In other words, if you become used to extreme situations, you'll be more calm and cool in future extreme situations.

Your going out on a limb with this one dude. On a very very basic level your argument might have some merit but theres way too many other factors for it to hold water.
Should we let murderers in the army because they have practice killing people?  Maybe if we let someone who's tried drugs in the army, when they get offered drugs somewhere they will jump at the chance to smoke up and get high.

Whatever arguments we come up with here, right or wrong, it doesn't matter.  For whatever their reasons, the Canadian Forces decides what is acceptable and what is isn't.

 

[Harrier101]

That is a very inaccurate view of what really happened.  Mistakes happen, if those were Canadian pilots you would be singing a different tune

Sorry, I do not have 8 hours to write out every point here on this site regarding the accidental bombing by 2 Air National Guard Members of CF troops in Afghanistan.

A factor in the bombing was the fact.....Fact....that they were taking "go pills" -- amphetamines used to help stay awake on long missions. Was it the cause of the incident...NO. But it was deemed to be a contributing factor that related directly to the pilot's ability to use judgement. Judgement that may, or may not have resulted in the deaths of 4 CF soldiers from PPCLI.

And again, I see that some of you still think that the use of Hard narcotics in the past is "Okay". And that it will have no bearing on your present character. And that the military should hire you as it is "Life experience"????? Or it makes you having more of an ability to .....I'm really laughing at this one...."think outside the box". ???