Premier Ford To Use "Notwithstanding" Against Education Staff- split fromFreedom Convoy Protests

[Navy_Pete]

My issue is they are taking away the right to strike without allowing arbitration, and are instead imposing a contract on them through legislation.

Want to make them essential workers? Great. Then bring an arbitrator in to oversee negotiations so the outcome is still fair.

 

[brihard]

My issue is they are taking away the right to strike without allowing arbitration, and are instead imposing a contract on them through legislation.

Want to make them essential workers? Great. Then bring an arbitrator in to oversee negotiations so the outcome is still fair.

Generally speaking I agree. But even at that, calling them essential workers is a stretch. That should be limited to health, safety, and critical infrastructure. Support worker strikes that cause some school boards to close may be damnably inconvenient, but it’s not the same thing, and we already proved we could endure something like that for a couple years, albeit at a price.

These workers have seen an effective 10% drop in pay in the pst decade; 8% pay increases versus 18% compounded inflation. And, I’ll note, other discussions on this site have pointed out that the real impact of inflation has been disproportionately high on some essentials like groceries. I would think it’s obvious that any government offer that fails to match inflation would be an utter non-starter for this bargaining unit. If Ford wants them back to work, the province can dig a bit deeper and at least cause their standard of living to not drop.

 

[Weinie]

As does any region that relies on fisheries, forestry and anything else that is seasonal. I wonder what the folks that lay asphalt or drive winter road maintenance equipment do off-season. The only reason agriculture escapes a lot of it is we've off-shored the labour.

Ya, if the NWC was always viewed as the 'nuclear option', disallowance would likely lead to constitutional MAD. Section 33 was pushed by premiers, primarily from the west, who wanted to limit the interference in the democratic process by the unelected judiciary. It was added during the (in)famous 'kitchen conference' or, from Quebec's perspective, the 'night of the long knives'. It seems everybody hoped its mere presence would be enough and it would never be used. Well, here we are - again.

I would like to support your premise above, but can't. A good percentage of my relatives in Nova Scotia are lazy bastards, who rely on the largesse of EI and the Feds. Every time I go home, I taunt them mercilessly, to the point where they say they will never see/speak to me again. Then, a few days later, they show up to my BBQ at the cottage, where I pay for everything. Entitled/enabled.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I would like to support your premise above, but can't. A good percentage of my relatives in Nova Scotia are lazy bastards, who rely on the largesse of EI and the Feds. Every time I go home, I taunt them mercilessly, to the point where they say they will never see/speak to me again. Then, a few days later, they show up to my BBQ at the cottage, where I pay for everything. Entitled/enabled.

Its not a NS thing. Its an East coast/maritime mentality.

There is an expectation of something for nothing in a sizable portion of the population.

 

[Brad Sallows]

we could endure something like that for a couple years, albeit at a price.

"We" are not paying that price. Particular children are. And from the tone and content of the articles published now that no-one is shouting them down, the damage is considerable.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Its not a NS thing. Its an East coast/maritime mentality.

There is an expectation of something for nothing in a sizable portion of the population.

And Toronto. You forgot Toronto

 

[Weinie]

And Toronto. You forgot Toronto

I lived in Toronto for 12 years. It has nothing on the East Coast.

 

[OldSolduer]

And Toronto. You forgot Toronto

And Winnipeg where some folks think everything should be “free”.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Almost everyone is in the same boat. Plenty of workers saw a net pay drop due to the 2008 economic turmoil, and plenty are experiencing one now. It is improbable that public service workers can be protected (sometimes retroactively) every time there is a downturn while a majority of other workers (and retirees) are not. The income of public employees and costs of public programs have to be calibrated to the tax base. Eventually voters will have a say. Bend, or break.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

W

My issue is they are taking away the right to strike without allowing arbitration, and are instead imposing a contract on them through legislation.

Want to make them essential workers? Great. Then bring an arbitrator in to oversee negotiations so the outcome is still fair.

We asked for that from the Wynne liberals and got shot down constantly, while feeding this union millions of tax payer dollars. And we wonder why they are spoiled brats.

Since Wynne became premier number of teachers on Sunshine List nearly tripled, costing taxpayers $765M​

Since Wynne became premier number of teachers on Sunshine List nearly tripled, costing taxpayers $765M

Taxpayers were left with a $765-million bill to pay the salaries of the teachers who made the list in 2016, compared with $263 million in 2014 — one year after Wynn…

nationalpost.com

 

[Navy_Pete]

W

We asked for that from the Wynne liberals and got shot down constantly, while feeding this union millions of tax payer dollars. And we wonder why they are spoiled brats.

Since Wynne became premier number of teachers on Sunshine List nearly tripled, costing taxpayers $765M​

Since Wynne became premier number of teachers on Sunshine List nearly tripled, costing taxpayers $765M

Taxpayers were left with a $765-million bill to pay the salaries of the teachers who made the list in 2016, compared with $263 million in 2014 — one year after Wynn…

nationalpost.com

Weird article; If some teachers got a 4% raise and suddenly got on the sunshine list, the cost didn't triple. Just means they were in the high 90s before that.

Nothing really to do with the support workers though, different union and most are making around $40k. Their 10% raise would be about the same actual cost increase as a 4% raise for someone making around $100k.

After taxes and spread out over a year, the difference between a 1.5, 2 and 2.5% are probably insignificant on the paycheques.

I agree with @brihard that this is a huge stretch calling them essential workers, but ON is trying to have their cake and eat it to here by imposing a contract vice doing normal things like bargaining.

 

[brihard]

W

We asked for that from the Wynne liberals and got shot down constantly, while feeding this union millions of tax payer dollars. And we wonder why they are spoiled brats.

Since Wynne became premier number of teachers on Sunshine List nearly tripled, costing taxpayers $765M​

Since Wynne became premier number of teachers on Sunshine List nearly tripled, costing taxpayers $765M

Taxpayers were left with a $765-million bill to pay the salaries of the teachers who made the list in 2016, compared with $263 million in 2014 — one year after Wynn…

nationalpost.com

Reading that article, it’s not clear what point is being made. It admits many teachers were just below the sunshine list threshold, and that those above were generally paid more for taking on extra duties- effectively overtime. It then admits that the number of the list ballooned on a one time basis due to a lump sum payout for a benefit they were losing; not dissimilar from when CAF could take the severance payout. It’s also written as if to suggest, to those not payinf attention, that there was $500m in new salary costs, when really there was a single digit percentage increase, and some people moved briefly from the ‘under $100k’ column to the ‘over $100k’ column. Objective reporting would have identified how much of that $500m was actually new spending. As written, the article seems to be more rage farming than anything, with data cherry-picked and presented in… I’ll be generous, a ‘creative’ fashion to stoke an emotional response.

 

[Brad Sallows]

As long as schools can remain open while the workers are out, they are not essential. The instant a school has to close will deem them, collectively, essential.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

As long as schools can remain open while the workers are out, they are not essential. The instant a school has to close will deem them, collectively, essential.

The union will fight tooth and nail to stop that from happening. I've seen it in my own experience as an OPSEU member.

 

[Remius]

As long as schools can remain open while the workers are out, they are not essential. The instant a school has to close will deem them, collectively, essential.

The problem is by prememptively legislating them they are telepgraphing that they are essential.

 

[dapaterson]

A minor "yes, but": this union includes custodial staff. Cleaning and sanitation work likely meet the threshold for essential.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Legault in Quebec can use the Notwithstanding clause to suppress the English language and destroy religious freedom with it. He uses it to abrogate Charter Rights. I don't hear anybody here standing up against that use use of it, even though that is spectacularly worse than Ford saying "You won't damage the kids any further. You will show up and do your job."

I have stood up against that usage of the NWC as has others on this site when it happened.

What this government is doing to those workers is nothing short of criminal. Even if your passing back to work leglislation how dare they attempt to force a contract on them. At WORST it should be a binding arbitration. Even then you can run without a contract if the parties involved so choose. This choosing to go straight to nuclear without even attempting to bargain is wrong.

These also aren’t teachers. Many are making 20$ a hour or less, work significantly more hours than teachers and honestly in many cities likely can’t even afford to live. Obviously their union is asking for the moon, but thats how negotiations work, both start high/low and then meet somewhere in the middle.

If I could take some wages from teachers (averaging $600+ each actual day worked) and give it to them I would. Unfortunately those are two seperate negotiations and they are basically attacking the little guy.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Don't blame Ford. Blame the union that told him to go fuck the province and their children.

 

[Kilted]

A minor "yes, but": this union includes custodial staff. Cleaning and sanitation work likely meet the threshold for essential.

Some workers are talking about an illegal strike. I suspect that some of the people who fit into that category would be easy to replace.

 

[brihard]

I have stood up against that usage of the NWC as has others on this site when it happened.

What this government is doing to those workers is nothing short of criminal. Even if your passing back to work leglislation how dare they attempt to force a contract on them. At WORST it should be a binding arbitration. Even then you can run without a contract if the parties involved so choose. This choosing to go straight to nuclear without even attempting to bargain is wrong.

These also aren’t teachers. Many are making 20$ a hour or less, work significantly more hours than teachers and honestly in many cities likely can’t even afford to live. Obviously their union is asking for the moon, but thats how negotiations work, both start high/low and then meet somewhere in the middle.

If I could take some wages from teachers (averaging $600+ each actual day worked) and give it to them I would. Unfortunately those are two seperate negotiations and they are basically attacking the little guy.

Largely agreed, obviously save for characterizing it as criminal. It’s explicitly legal, which is part of the problem.

I have a huge issue with legislating a ‘collective agreement’. That’s horseshit. Binding arbitration would, in the most extreme case, be appropriate. But legislatively imposing four years’ worth of conditions of employment under the threat of charges if they exercise their right to strike? That’s cowardly. The province does have the authority to determine that these workers are ‘essential workers’, though that would be

The province has NOT approached this in good faith. Workers at lower income levels, who have already seen their pay decrease in real terms by 10% in the past decade, are being told to eat another 4% cut in their purchasing power just in one year, plus whatever subsequent years work out to versus inflation. I’d tell the employer to go fuck itself too. There are a lot of employers looking for people right now if they want to play that game- but the province can’t replace thousands of people quickly.

If the province is truly worried about the kids, it can fairly compensate those who are necessary for the kids’ education. This strike wouldn’t be happening without an insultingly low offer by the province, doubled down with legislative brinksmanship. I hope the province has an idea of its next move when they declare a strike illegal, and 55,000 workers shrug and do it anyway.