Penticton Reservist (?): "It's time to end Afghanistan war"

[RHFC_piper]

The legal argument aside; why would this member stay with an organization he disagrees with and finds so much fault in?

It would seem more logical for a person with such convictions to NOT be involved in the organization they're opposed to...   ???
In my twisted thinking, this is the same as a vegetarian working at an abattoir.

I realize that this person probably wants to remain in the forces and just apposes the mission, but, there is a difference between morally objecting* and remaining a professional soldier (especially in the reserve system... where tours are voluntary) and morally objecting, openly rejecting and denouncing the actions of your peers (especially without experience or proof), repeatedly, and  being completely unprofessional.... This member did the latter... which, again, makes me wonder why??




*before someone jumps on me for this one; soldiers can have a moral objection to the nature of a mission; that's the beauty of democracy and freedom of beliefs... it is only an issue if this objection interferes with the soldiers duty; then it is an issue of 'do your job or leave'.   Professionalism can be measure with how a soldier reacts to this situation.
I've known of members objecting to operational deployment and, instead of publicly denouncing it, they opted for the professional resort and left the forces.  (or in the reserve situation; just not apply for deployment)
I'm sure this could be debated for hours, and it has in other threads... The long and the short of it is that this member acted very unprofessionally, especially when he has absolutely no obligation to serve... To me is seems like, and please forgive the term; an attention wh0re.

</my $0.02>

 

[Strike]

So Teeps and I were discussing this same subject tonight (those of you who are in Kingston and didn't go to the meet and greet suck) and he reiterated his point that this may very well be an agent provocateur with the intention of being a poster boy for a certain belief group.  I would suggest that we keep this in mind wrt our future comments.

As an aside, it is easy enough for a person who has objections to go the route of 'contentious objector.'  I just learned about a colleague of mine who is an exceptional pilot who just switched to Padre.  He has certain "issues" wrt what duties he is expected to perform in his trade and believes the forces are better served by him acting as a Padre.  Note that his obligatory service is well over and he is incurring more by OT'ing right now.  THAT is how these issues should be addressed IMHO.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Oh Canada!
Sometimes I'm just so proud of my fellow citizens I can't contain myself.
Re; http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/515094

I also learned about some of the atrocities the soldiers reported when they returned, and they are not even permitted to tell the whole story.
Simone Gabbay

Well it sounds like you still got the good and juicy parts!

There is no such thing as a war between good and evil; it's all evil. Good is when evil rests
Jim Renahan

Huh? I mean right! Evil resting good. Evil being evil bad. But there is no bad, only being.

Paul Demetrick deserves a medal for bravery – and most certainly for honesty.
Jim Renahan, again

Defiantly a medal for bravery! Just not a campaign star, you know, because he never actually has been to Afghanistan. I know minor detail, not important.

Ongoing deployments increase the risk and severity of post-traumatic stress disorder
Linda Simmonds, Orangeville.

You don't say? Had to go to school for that huh. Getting shot increases chances of death too.

Finally someone accepts responsibility for killing so many innocent people.
A.H. Karolia

Accepting responsibility from the safety of home. Classy. While he's at it I wonder what else he can accept responsibility for? Not like it's costing him anything.

Finally, a letter straight from the horse's mouth.
Pamela Bolton

The horse that never left the gate, but a horse none the less right Pamela? Well A horse that never even made it to the track, a horse that never left it's ranch but whatever. It's a horse people!

Has Paul Demetrick been to Afghanistan, or is he basing his statements on rumours and innuendo from conspiracy circles? Why would he join the military if he has such an aversion to all things military? It's like joining the boy scouts and becoming upset when you have to sell apples and do good deeds.

John Addison

John please. The fact that he has never been to Afghanistan and has "heard" things vice witnessed doesn't detract from the truth, okay?  I heard Steven Harper was secretly having the army building him a summer home so he can go there when he retires. I heard it so it's true.

Combat situations are not what we are about as Canadians. We are peacemakers and peacekeepers and we should stay that way
.Bernie Merrett

Here here! What Bernie said.
What do you guys and gals think peaceMAKEING is? Fighting and removing a threat which then brings peace upon which we then move into a peaceKEEPING role?
Wrong. Dummies.
We have to MAKE peace first. And you don't make peace with soldiers fighting the bad guys, you do it other ways. You just, you know, make it. Nuff said.


I'm proud of you Canadian's I really am.

 

[The Bread Guy]

This may very well be an agent provocateur with the intention of being a poster boy for a certain belief group.  I would suggest that we keep this in mind wrt our future comments.

Maybe, but we can still disagree with his views and his actions without prejudicing any future actions that may or may not be coming his way.

As an aside, it is easy enough for a person who has objections to go the route of 'contentious objector.' 

There's an even simpler process than that - just leave the organization.  As a Reservist, it would be LOADS easier and quicker, I suspect, than for a Regular to quit. 

I just learned about a colleague of mine who is an exceptional pilot who just switched to Padre.  He has certain "issues" wrt what duties he is expected to perform in his trade and believes the forces are better served by him acting as a Padre.  Note that his obligatory service is well over and he is incurring more by OT'ing right now.

I have more respect for someone saying, "ya know, this isn't for me, don't like what's being done here, maybe I should go or, at least, change jobs" (I dealt with such folks when I was still in the military), than for anyone staying in any organization if they REALLY believe their colleagues are breaking the law.

 

[xena]

There's an even simpler process than that - just leave the organization.  As a Reservist, it would be LOADS easier and quicker, I suspect, than for a Regular to quit.

I'm not too sure about that.  It was quicker for me getting out of the Regs the first time than getting out of the Reserves the second time I pulled handles.

FWIW, I regret both.

 

[Old Sweat]

If his unit would be glad to see him go, things can happen very quickly. It may not be a record, and it was in the old army as opposed to the CF, but in the sixties a junior officer attempted to break into the officers mess in the field in pursuit of booze and then fought with the gunner barman, who was sleeping in the mess vehicle. This happed at about 0230 and he was a civilian standing outside the main gate of Gagetown with a bus ticket home and all his worldy possessions in his kit bag by 1000 the same day.

Now there is no comparing the two individuals. One was a thief and a general screw up; the other expressed an opinion that casts doubt of the forces. Still, if he wanted to take his leave, I am sure it could be expedited.

 

[George Wallace]

Today, the Reserves are burdened by the lack of knowledgeable RMS Clerks to facilitate Releases (and enrolments), the passage of time in transmitting msgs to and from HQs, and the lengths of time for the persons responsible at those HQs to make decisions relating to those msgs.  The bureaucracy/Administrative arm of the CF Reserves has its feet firmly planted in cement.

 

[vonGarvin]

Now there is no comparing the two individuals. One was a thief and a general screw up; the other expressed an opinion that casts doubt of the forces. Still, if he wanted to take his leave, I am sure it could be expedited.

I have no problem with his opinion.  It was with his outright lies and slander that I, a member of the CF, am part of an organisation that disregards and disobeys the laws of armed conflict, he has lost all respect.

 

[Huzzah]

CountDC,
  I disagree with your comments to OldSolduer,with regard to his opinions being "slanted and clouded"
by his Son's service in Afghanistan.I also think that you could have referred to his Son's death with alot
more class and respect.
I think that those who have had,or now have family serving there,have a better take on things than you
do.They also tend to have reached the "fed-up" point with the media,and self-serving politicians(and yes,
Jack Layton is one of the major culprits),yammering endlessly about detainee's rights,etc.,while ignoring
or distorting the accomplishments of our Troops.
   

(for some reason,I can't get the paragraphs to stay in the order that I typed them)





  
 

 

[George Wallace]

This whole affair is a reminder that Peace comes at a heavy price, and quite often those who enjoy it (Peace) the most, are those who are ignorant of this fact, or just plain hypocrites.

This letter, part of the letters to the editor "campaign" in the Penticton Western News, is an example of the hypocrisy of some people who have witnessed the horrors of war, and the methods that were necessary to rescue them from tyrannical regimes.

Peace worth fighting for

Published: September 27, 2008 12:00 PM

When I switched on the radio recently to listen to the 11 o’clock news, my heart fell when I heard the yet another Canadian soldier — the 97th — had been killed in far-off Afghanistan. We would be seeing another ramp ceremony, with a flag-draped coffin being loaded into a waiting transport plane, destination Canada, on our television screen. As a mother of a soldier who has been ready to defend his country for more than a dozen years, I can well imagine the sorrow of the mother of this latest victim, and all the 96 who died before him. I’m feeling compelled to do something about this folly of war taking place in both Afghanistan and Iraq, which have been going on for far too many years already. Who knows when it will ever end? How many more lives will it take before our leaders will realize that Canada is involved in an unjust, immoral, unwinnable war in Afghanistan and will call it quits. I ask myself, “What can I do?” Well for one, I can speak out against this madness and encourage others to do the same.

In most instances greed and egotism start wars it is the innocent, which suffer the consequences. I know from personal experience as the first five years of my life were spent in the Netherlands during the Second World War. I know how it feels when bombs rain from the sky and one doesn’t know where to hide, to be cut off from the necessities of life such as food and water, sanitation and heat. Such is the life the people of Iraq and Afghanistan have been enduring for years now. Why are we inflicting such horror on these people? What have they done to deserve this lot? Neither the Iraqis, nor the Afghans were directly involved in the 9/11 attack, which has been the excuse for waging war on them. We are being deceived by our leaders that our troops are there on a “mission,” instead of fighting a war, that they (the soldiers) are there to rebuild the countries (Iraq and Afghanistan). Nothing is further from the truth. In the meantime the killing continues and we stand by and do nothing, as it is easier to believe those lies than face the uncomfortable truth. However, there is hope since more and more Canadians are awakening from their slumber and starting to realize that they must do something to restore peace in these war-torn countries. As Canadians we don’t want to see more maple leaf-draped coffins on our televisions. I’m proud of my son, who decided against enlisting for a tour in Afghanistan and is publicly speaking out against what is happening there. In doing so, he has encountered the wrath of the military establishment. My son deplores Canada’s involvement in Afghanistan and has thereby taken an unpopular stand. He is aware of the consequences, but is willing to take them. If I may, I would like to share some excerpts from his writing. “The war was ‘sold’ to us on the lie that we are fighting for human rights, such as equality for women and education for children, especially girls.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________


“In democracy, the people have the power to end wars. If enough soldiers refuse to fight and enough citizens join them and demand that their leaders end a military engagement, then a war will be swiftly over. Therefore, support the troops, support peace, bring the troops home now.”

Perhaps and organization could be started like Mothers Against Drunk Drivers MADD, in this case Mothers Against War, or even better Mothers For Peace. If there is already such an organization, let me know. I would gladly sign up.

E.J. Demetrick

Oliver 

It is interesting to note that thousands of Canadian soldiers laid down their lives in the Liberation of the Netherlands.  They laid down their lives to free Mrs Demetrick from the tyranny of the Nazis.  She was rescued by Canadian soldiers who fought and died, that she could live a full life in Peace and enjoy Freedom to raise a son who joined the CF Reserves.  A son who should have held those values much higher than he apparantly does.

Is it hypocritical of her not to wish the same thing for the Afghans, or is she a Racist and doesn't feel that Canadian soldiers should be fighting and dying to bring Peace, stability and freedom to Afghans as they had done in WW II for the Dutch? 

I am drawing nasty conclusions of where this family comes from (politically).  I don't like what I have seen so far.

 

[George Wallace]

Paul Demetrick's letter on 27 Aug 2008 did not go without any response to conterdict his false claims.

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act:


Letter off target

Published: September 06, 2008 12:00 PM

Paul Demetrick’s diatribe “Canada in the wrong on Afghanistan,” Aug. 27 is astonishing in its scope and bitterness.

Comparing our prime minister (or any of our national leaders for that matter) to fascist dictator Benito Mussolini is a fallacious argument and a deplorable attempt at character assassination.

Similarly, not content with endorsing a comparison of Canada with the Taliban, he invokes the ultimate in sophistry by suggesting that Canada is also comparable to Nazi Germany in waging an aggressive, illegal war in Afghanistan. Such tactics suggest a lack of convincing argument to support one’s tenuous position.

While criticizing Mr. Slump for “factual errors,” the International Criminal Court is invoked to describe the war in Afghanistan as being illegal. Following is a quote from a letter dated Feb. 9, 2006 authored by the chief prosecutor of the ICC:

“The ICC has a mandate to examine the conduct during a conflict but not whether the decision to engage in armed conflict was legal.” Luis Moreno-Ocampo.

Surely the obvious factual error on this point does not reside in the mandate of the ICC as cogently explained by its Chief Prosecutor.

It should also be noted that while a signatory to NATO, Canada did ­— quite independent of that organization — contribute peace-keepers to the UN and for many years was, indeed, “the glue that held UN (peace) operations together.” Once again, there were no factual errors by Mr. Slump in that regard.

Finally, many veterans would dispute the myopic view that Canada “has never been recognized as a ‘military power’ at any level.” One only has to reflect on our commitment to the Second World War and the strength of our forces at the end of that conflict to totally refute that demeaning statement.

Thomas Linning

Penticton

 

[Huzzah]

I'm still puzzled about something.I did a brief web search on the national origin
of the name,Demetrick.Maybe I did something wrong,but it didn't mention the
Netherlands at all. ??? I'm sure there were some non-Dutch immigrants in WW2
Holland,but it also makes me wonder if  Mom Demetrick's story is bogus.

 

[George Wallace]

I'm still puzzled about something.I did a brief web search on the national origin
of the name,Demetrick.Maybe I did something wrong,but it didn't mention the
Netherlands at all. ??? I'm sure there were some non-Dutch immigrants in WW2
Holland,but it also makes me wonder if  Mom Demetrick's story is bogus.

I would almost bet that Mrs Demetrick has a Maiden Name.    :

 

[Huzzah]

I would almost bet that Mrs Demetrick has a Maiden Name.    :

Good point,I'll go wipe the egg off my face now...

 

[ModlrMike]

I was struck by the passage that said he spent the first 5 years of his life in Holland during WW2. So, if this is true then:

2008 - 1939 = 68

I'm pretty sure we don't have any serving 68 year olds.

 

[PMedMoe]

It was his mother who was in Holland during WWII.

 

[George Wallace]

Looks like we are soon in need of some Grade three English comprehension classes.    :-\

It was his mother who was in Holland during WWII.

That may make her the "Mother of all Evils".     ;D

 

[stryte]

Looks like we are soon in need of some Grade three English comprehension classes.    :-\

Well then we better hurry and get CelticGirl to apply those English teaching skills of hers before she leaves!

 

[Jarnhamar]

Okay let me get this straight.

This mother was in occupied Holland and liberated by Canadians. (Or allies?)  The people she was liberated from were people who were basically killing people who didn't fit into their ideal perfect world.
Now her son is denouncing Canadians (and allies) who are again helping people against a group who are more than happy to kill anyone who doesn't fit into their ideal world or follow the tennents of their faith, and shes applauding him?

She has seen how horrible it is when civilians are killed by bombs from airplanes. Is it safe to assume she's also seen how horrible it is when an armed force willingly kills people on a whim?

How selfish of her.

 

[Huzzah]

It does seem strange that Mrs.Demetrick can't see any parallels between Canadians
assisting the Afghans,and Canadians assisting in the liberation of Holland.