Paid parking DND property

[PMedMoe]

So your paying to get to work??
yeah no thanks,

Simple solution: don't drive to work.  Jog or bike. 

 

[Remius]

Here is the thing I find ridiculous about parking and public transit in the NCR.

A bus pass runs you about 115$.  If you work downtown that's way better than the 200$ average parking.  If you work outside that area expect to apy 50-80 all depending on where you are.  Not worth getting a pass.  Neither if you are a couple both working downtown (a lot of couples work in the same area in Ottawa).  Cool, so I might take the bus then.  Except this city lacks in park and ride space and in fact are starting to sell spots to guarantee a spot at 50$ a month then factor in your pass and the hassle then you might as well pay for parking downtown.

To make matters worse, parking areas in downtown are being replaced with condos, meaning less space availability.

They want you to take public transit  here but they offer very little incentive to do so, both cost wise and hassle wise.

Now continuing with the theme of the thread, imagine free parking everywhere downtown.  What do you think the commute would look like?  Likely like it did during the bus strike.

Parking fees are indeed tax related, but it likely is also a social engineering thing.  By design or by default.  But public parking is all part of city planning.

Sorry if I derailed.

 

[Crispy Bacon]

For people who now pay for parking, how much and where are you paying.
On Bishop's U campus (Sherbrooke) the annual cost is $170.00.  For retired personnel it's free, but it's a taxable benefit and so the cost by default is at least $60.00 and the University doesn't get it.
DND doesn't provide parking for the local units, with the exception of about a half dozen spots for the VIPs.

At-building parking is $120 per month
Parking at a local shopping area (2 minutes away) was $55 per month, just raised to $75 per month
Parking at another shopping area (10 minutes away) is free

 

[McG]

I could see a lot of people parking at connaught and biking or running into work from there if that was the case.

So, you are saying that pay parking may be the path to the improved fitness culture sought in other threads?

 

[Remius]

So, you are saying that pay parking may be the path to the improved fitness culture sought in other threads?

Lol.  Hardly.  It would likely be the fit people who are already likely to bike and run to work who would take advantage of that.

 

[Journeyman]

Plus you'd have to factor in the additional work-out necessitating "rehydrating"  :cheers:

 

[upandatom]

Simple solution: don't drive to work.  Jog or bike.

Usually I agree with your logic PMedMoe, (Given you dont know my location)
but in my current location, at PMQs, you want me to Jog a 1/2 Marathon to and a 1/2 Marathon from work Daily?

Biking is almost feasible, still doesnt solve the issue of PT Strip/Lunch/Breakfast and everything else that accompanies me to work. The extra 30min + required when I already depart for work at 0515, and leave the base at 1700. Thanks but no thanks,

 

[PMedMoe]

Well, I can pretty much guarantee that there are people employed in all kinds of places in Canada who have to pay for parking if they drive to work.  I don't get where people think we should be exempt, when, in some cases, our work/parking is located in a desirable, high-traffic area.  I paid the entire time I was in Ottawa.  I'd rather pay for parking and the convenience of arriving/departing work when I wish than be subject to the whims of the transit system.  I do think that the people who work at a location should be given first shot when it comes to getting spots, though.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I am now hearing the visitor parking rates will be $10/day in Halifax.

 

[The_Falcon]

Well, I can pretty much guarantee that there are people employed in all kinds of places in Canada who have to pay for parking if they drive to work.

Yup....good luck on finding a job (public or private sectore) within the core of Toronto, or Vancouver, or Montreal (you get the idea) where your job comes with free parking.

 

[medicineman]

I work in Portage la Prairie and MacGregor, MB - I still pay for parking for those work places, and they're much tinier than Toronto, Montreal, etc.  I don't seem to recall anywhere I worked in the CF where I had "entitlement" to parking, except when I had an appointment accompanied by a parking spot.  I did see where the UNDE and PSAC folks in Esquimalt had it written into their collective agreements that it was though - as a WO at the Base Clinic, I had to park anywhere up to a few hundred metres away from the building, since even the lowliest CR had main lot privileges but we didn't unless a command appointment accompanied us.  When I worked at CANFLTPAC, I still had to park about a 10-15 minute walk away, if I got there early enough...or I took the water taxi, and still had to get there early enough to find a legal spot to put the car.  Parking is at a premium in a lot of places - stands to reason you might be asked to cough up something for it.

:2c:

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Well, I can pretty much guarantee that there are people employed in all kinds of places in Canada who have to pay for parking if they drive to work.  I don't get where people think we should be exempt, when, in some cases, our work/parking is located in a desirable, high-traffic area.  I paid the entire time I was in Ottawa.  I'd rather pay for parking and the convenience of arriving/departing work when I wish than be subject to the whims of the transit system.  I do think that the people who work at a location should be given first shot when it comes to getting spots, though.

You are buying into the classic Canadian mentality of "I don't get it so nobody else should"

If anyone is interested I looked at what the parking policy at the Pentagon is for our neighbours to the South.  If any of you are interested here is the document:

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/a088p.pdf

Of note:  parking spaces are available for those who are entitled, the order of entitlement is as follows:

a. Disabled employees.
b. Government vehicles.
c. Executives.
d. Van and car pools.
e. Single occupant drivers.

For everyone else who doesn't receive a parking pass, the DoD subsidizes their transit fees through the Mass Transit Benefit Program. 

Taken from the Mass Transportation Benefit Program Site:

The Mass Transportation Benefit Program was established in October 2000 and is offered to eligible employees and military service members, to the extent authorized by law and regulation, to reduce pollution and traffic congestion, preserve the environment, and expand transportation alternatives.

Under this program, participating employees in the National Capital Region (NCR) receive "transit passes" in amounts equal to their personal commuting costs, not to exceed $130 per month (parking costs not included). To receive this benefit, employees must relinquish any federally subsidized parking permit, and may not be listed as part of a DoD carpool for purposes of qualifying for a parking pass.

  Source:  http://www.whs.mil/mass-transportation-benefit-program

If the Pentagon, with just over 25,000 employees, can provide their employees with free parking or at least a subsidized alternative to get to work we should be able to provide civilian and military members in Halifax, Ottawa and all major urban centers free parking and if not, at least get them a bus pass.  Btw, Washington's traffic and congestion is far worse then anything you will see in any Canadian city.

The reason for pay parking in Halifax has more to do with the fact that the government cut O&M significantly this past year and they didn't give enough money to maintain infrastructure, so instead of paying to properly upkeep the base i.e. snow removal, paving costs, etc... they are offloading the cost onto the members.  This has nothing to do with treasury board policy (that's an excuse) it has everything to do with the government not wanting to pay to maintain a base properly, it would rather offload the costs onto civilian and military employees who pay taxes for a reason!

 

[c_canuk]

I'm curious and interested why the treasury board and the CRA seem to think anything you get at work that you could potentially get somewhere else for a fee, is automatically a taxible benifit.

Are we going to start having to pay gym memberships when we do unit PT?

Why is it that everything has to be at market rate, except our pay? Yes I know in theory PLD is supposed to off set that somewhat but the mandated yearly updates aren't being done and the rates are way off regardless.

Why does it seem that provincial income tax rates are not figured into the PLD calculation?

 

[Remius]

RoyalDrew:

First off it has nothing to do with what you consider an excuse.  It is the Income Tax Act which is by definition THE LAW.

And I don't think you understand the U.S. plan.

Parking is still a taxable benefit in the U.S. at a certain value.

The pentagon's parking policy and who gets parking is still subject to IRS rules and regulations based on value.  So even though execs get parking, they still have to pay income tax on it depending on its value.  every department has a parking policy based on priority that is actually a national policy not just DoD.

The transit benefit plan is similar to what we have here.  You can claim your bus pass on your taxes as a tax deduction in Canada (wow look at that).  Certain cities offer discounts much like the Eco-pass we used to have in Ottawa. 

You'll also notice that they receive transit passes equal to commuting costs NOT INCLUDING PARKING COSTS

And if their traffic is worse than anything you've seen here it is likely because they provide so much subsidized parking...

Here is the IRS rules on parking as a taxable benefit in the US, very similar to ours except for the parking ceiling they've establised which is 230$.  Anything valued over that gets taxed.  So the average for unreserved parking in DC is about 270$ but reserved spots can go as high as 500$ in some cases.  So anything over 230$ in value must be added as income just like we do here. 

But we are not the US so really, what they are doing is irrelevant.




1.14.9.8  (06-21-2011)
Taxable Parking Benefits


1.
Whenever parking is provided to an employee and the value of parking exceeds $230 per month, the excess amount over $230 is considered taxable income and must be included in the employee's wages reported on their Form W-2, (Note that $230 is the current ceiling as of 2010. This figure may be adjusted based on the annual cost of living and may be adjusted based on the annual cost of living and may be found in The Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits Provided in 2010 [or current year], (Publication 15-B, December 3, 2009, [or current date] paragraph entitled " Qualified Transportation Benefits." )

2.
Generally the value of parking provided by an employer to an employee is based on the cost (including taxes or other added fees) that an individual would incur in an arm's-length transaction to obtain parking at the same site. If that cost is not ascertainable, then the value of parking is based on the cost that an individual would incur in arm's-length transaction for a space in the same lot or in a comparable lot in the same general location under the same or similar circumstances. An employee's subjective perception of the value of the parking is not relevant to the determination of its fair market value.

3.
For this program, the value of parking provided by the IRS to an employee will be based on the GSA rent charge if the parking is located in a federal building, or the lease cost if the parking is provided under a lease agreement. If the IRS paid parking is located on a privately owned parking lot and acquired via service contract, the current contract rate will determine the value.

 

[Remius]

I'm curious and interested why the treasury board and the CRA seem to think anything you get at work that you could potentially get somewhere else for a fee, is automatically a taxible benifit.

Are we going to start having to pay gym memberships when we do unit PT?

I feel like I'm teaching a course...

Read the link.  Page 28 deals with PT and when it should be a taxable benefit.  and not everything you get is considered a taxable benefit.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4130/t4130-13e.pdf

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

RoyalDrew:

First off it has nothing to do with what you consider an excuse.  It is the Income Tax Act which is by definition THE LAW.

And I don't think you understand the U.S. plan.

Parking is still a taxable benefit in the U.S. at a certain value.

The pentagon's parking policy and who gets parking is still subject to IRS rules and regulations based on value.  So even though execs get parking, they still have to pay income tax on it depending on its value.  every department has a parking policy based on priority that is actually a national policy not just DoD.

The transit benefit plan is similar to what we have here.  You can claim your bus pass on your taxes as a tax deduction in Canada (wow look at that).  Certain cities offer discounts much like the Eco-pass we used to have in Ottawa. 

You'll also notice that they receive transit passes equal to commuting costs NOT INCLUDING PARKING COSTS

And if their traffic is worse than anything you've seen here it is likely because they provide so much subsidized parking...

Here is the IRS rules on parking as a taxable benefit in the US, very similar to ours except for the parking ceiling they've establised which is 230$.  Anything valued over that gets taxed.  So the average for unreserved parking in DC is about 270$ but reserved spots can go as high as 500$ in some cases.  So anything over 230$ in value must be added as income just like we do here. 

But we are not the US so really, what they are doing is irrelevant.




1.14.9.8  (06-21-2011)
Taxable Parking Benefits


1.
Whenever parking is provided to an employee and the value of parking exceeds $230 per month, the excess amount over $230 is considered taxable income and must be included in the employee's wages reported on their Form W-2, (Note that $230 is the current ceiling as of 2010. This figure may be adjusted based on the annual cost of living and may be adjusted based on the annual cost of living and may be found in The Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits Provided in 2010 [or current year], (Publication 15-B, December 3, 2009, [or current date] paragraph entitled " Qualified Transportation Benefits." )

2.
Generally the value of parking provided by an employer to an employee is based on the cost (including taxes or other added fees) that an individual would incur in an arm's-length transaction to obtain parking at the same site. If that cost is not ascertainable, then the value of parking is based on the cost that an individual would incur in arm's-length transaction for a space in the same lot or in a comparable lot in the same general location under the same or similar circumstances. An employee's subjective perception of the value of the parking is not relevant to the determination of its fair market value.

3.
For this program, the value of parking provided by the IRS to an employee will be based on the GSA rent charge if the parking is located in a federal building, or the lease cost if the parking is provided under a lease agreement. If the IRS paid parking is located on a privately owned parking lot and acquired via service contract, the current contract rate will determine the value.

You ignored the last part of my post, I will copy and paste it for you, key points you missed highlighted in yellow:

The reason for pay parking in Halifax has more to do with the fact that the government cut O&M significantly this past year and they didn't give enough money to maintain infrastructure, so instead of paying to properly upkeep the base i.e. snow removal, paving costs, etc... they are offloading the cost onto the members.  This has nothing to do with treasury board policy (that's an excuse) it has everything to do with the government not wanting to pay to maintain a base properly, it would rather offload the costs onto civilian and military employees who pay taxes for a reason!

By the book you are correct; however, the issue is far bigger than the surface issue of tax law.  Don't you think it's funny that the government has chosen to apply this just when they are significantly cutting O&M budgets?  At the end of the day I am not going to sit here and spout off tax laws with you as it just isn't worth my time.  That being said, if the government doesn't want to pay to upkeep it's facilities then they shouldn't be passing that off to the employee.  If you think that's ok than we will agree to disagree.   

 

[MARS]

Don't you think it's funny that the government has chosen to apply this just when they are significantly cutting O&M budgets? 

I don't.  2004 when I was the adminO at a unit in Toronto, I was told I could no longer offer free parking to my unit's neighbours on occasion, as I was doing, because it was a violation Of the Real Property Act.  First time I had heard of 'fair market value' an all that.  I have no idea it that is tax law or not, but I recall my O and M budget wasn't in any sort of jeopardy.  Was told then that this would eventually apply to CF folks. 

So 10 years ago folks at ASU Toronto were alreay dealing with this issue but were, it appeared to me, doing their level best to delay implementation for military folks on DND property.

 

[Remius]

Technically i answered your yellow part by stating this is law not an excuse.

And no, I don't think its funny that they are applying this now because as I and others have stated, this isn't a new policy.  Not even for DND (I mentioned I had to deal with this ten years ago).  Some bases and facilities were not applying the rules and now they have to.  Simple as that.

You see this: The reason for pay parking in Halifax has more to do with the fact that the government cut O&M significantly this past year and they didn't give enough money to maintain infrastructure, so instead of paying to properly upkeep the base i.e. snow removal, paving costs, etc... they are offloading the cost onto the members.

That is hearsay.  Or your opinion.  Do you have something to back that claim up because I have provided many links now as to why Halifax and other location are paying parking according to the rules.  Did you see a memo or something?  In fact you say that the decision was taken because of the reduction in O&M THIS YEAR but the decision to enforce this in Halifax happened some 5 years ago and delayed it so really what you are claiming is BS. 

This Belt tightening may play a part when the tap runs dry but when it should never have happened in the first place...

 

[Occam]

Again, if I understand things correctly - there are two options available:

1.  Make you pay for parking
2.  Hit you with the value of parking as a taxable benefit.

If the market value of the parking spot is $100 per month, that means I'd pay $1200 per year out of my pocket for the parking spot under option #1.

However (and correct me if I'm wrong as to where the benefit is applied in a tax scenario), if option #2 were in play, I'd get $1200 in benefits added to my annual taxable income, but only pay whatever taxes apply according to the marginal tax brackets.  That means I'd probably only be out of pocket ~$500 for the year.

Why, other than to maximize revenue, would the Crown choose to force people to pay for their parking, when a taxable benefit would be the more advantageous option to the members?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

That is hearsay.  Or your opinion.  Do you have something to back that claim up because I have provided many links now as to why Halifax and other location are paying parking according to the rules.  Did you see a memo or something?  In fact you say that the decision was taken because of the reduction in O&M THIS YEAR but the decision to enforce this in Halifax happened some 5 years ago and delayed it so really what you are claiming is BS. 

Not everything has to be written down for it to be the truth