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Paid parking DND property

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For your reading pleasure (DWAN Access ONLY)

D Fin Svcs Policy Review  -  http://admfincs.mil.ca/comptsec/dfc-cfcd/meetings-reunions/2011-06-14/p1_e.pdf

Halifax B Comd Notification  -  http://halifax.mil.ca/CFBHalifax/BCOMD/documents/parking/CFB%20HALIFAX%20PARKING%20POLICY%20CHANGE.pdf

Also, see DAOD 1004-0 and 1004-1.

It all boils down to "Fair Market Value" and "Taxable Benefits".
 
Strike said:
Are reservists going to have to pay now too when they go to their parade nights?

Two units in Ottawa have been ticketing and/or towing members' vehicles (either through the MPs or the City of Ottawa bylaw enforcement or both) if they park at the drill hall without paying for years now. As you can imagine, attendance is down.
 
Ostrozac said:
As to whether Halifax should be paying for parking -- lots of locations in Ottawa have been doing this for years, so it's not a new concept, just new to Halifax.

Actually, that statement is not clear.  This is a recent development in Ottawa, only within the last five years.

The points about the Single Living-in personnel are a valid point.  If they should have to pay for parking, that should be a parking pass issued as part of their fees paid for Quarters; exactly like those paid by any other person who lives in an apartment or condo.  Is this policy going to get out of hand to the extent that those living in PMQs will also have to pay for parking?

In the last five decades or so, with the changes in our society, we have seen more and more military personnel moving out of Single Quarters and PMQs and living on the economy.  Many Bases have demolished Single Quarters and PMQs in the process.  Are we going to see more and more of these 'housing' lots turned into parking lots to facilitate all those who live off base and commute? 

 
George Wallace said:
Actually, that statement is not clear.  This is a recent development in Ottawa, only within the last five years.

Really?  Because I was posted to Ottawa more than five years ago and paid for parking at NDMC.
 
PMedMoe said:
Really?  Because I was posted to Ottawa more than five years ago and paid for parking at NDMC.

It was in that timeframe that it started.  It was free parking when I started there in 2005 through to about 2008/2009.  Parking fees started at NDMC around 2009/2010.

(I have merged the Parking in Ottawa/Montfort threads to this one, which started in 2008.) 
 
RoyalDrew said:
Yes because the rest of the military should seek to emulate Ottawa.... if that's the case then, I am not going to do any PT for the rest of my career, order DEU pants with a 52 inch waist, refuse to apply any sort of polish to my foot wear or iron my uniform, and never smile ever again!  Will all be better off for it!

Probably get a warning for this but go fuck yourself you self-rightous prick.  You are setting an awesome example by painting an entire org with a broad brush.  Every unit, even yours, has people like you have just described. 
 
When did free parking suddenly become an entitlement?

TB guidelines and CRA policies on taxable benefits have been in place for quite some time.  Some organisations either ignored them for years or didn't think it applied to them.  DND and the CF are some of the worst offenders when it comes to those policies and we sit there and complain when it's time to pay the piper after years of getting a free ride.

Citing unlimited liability, serving Canada and the ghost of Rick Hillier does nothing but make us all look like a bunch of entitled spoiled children...
 
George Wallace said:
Parking fees started at NDMC around 2009/2010.

A tad nit-picky, but I was posted to Ottawa in 2008, and we paid at NDMC.  So I think your dates are a little off.
 
PMedMoe said:
A tad nit-picky, but I was posted to Ottawa in 2008, and we paid at NDMC.  So I think your dates are a little off.

;D 

Not really a date that I burned into my memories.  I won't quibble over a year or two. 
 
Crantor said:
When did free parking suddenly become an entitlement?

TB guidelines and CRA policies on taxable benefits have been in place for quite some time.  Some organisations either ignored them for years or didn't think it applied to them.  DND and the CF are some of the worst offenders when it comes to those policies and we sit there and complain when it's time to pay the piper after years of getting a free ride.

Citing unlimited liability, serving Canada and the ghost of Rick Hillier does nothing but make us all look like a bunch of entitled spoiled children...

Citing unlimited liability was really grasping at straws.  However, when did parking suddenly become such an revenue generating necessity of the Government.  That is BS.  That is just another form of Taxation.  Next we will have to start paying to access to get into our offices through turnstiles.  Seriously, what employer charges their employees fees to come to work?  Is this in fact some sort of "Leftie Green plot" to cut down on Green House Gases?  (That may not be grasping at straws as ridiculous as it sounds.)  This TB policy is really ridiculous in its application to ALL DND and CAF installations/locations.
 
Crantor said:
When did free parking suddenly become an entitlement?

TB guidelines and CRA policies on taxable benefits have been in place for quite some time.  Some organisations either ignored them for years or didn't think it applied to them.  DND and the CF are some of the worst offenders when it comes to those policies and we sit there and complain when it's time to pay the piper after years of getting a free ride.

Citing unlimited liability, serving Canada and the ghost of Rick Hillier does nothing but make us all look like a bunch of entitled spoiled children...

Wow.
 
George Wallace said:
Citing unlimited liability was really grasping at straws.  However, when did parking suddenly become such an revenue generating necessity of the Government.  That is BS.  That is just another form of Taxation.  Next we will have to start paying to access to get into our offices through turnstiles.  Seriously, what employer charges their employees fees to come to work?  Is this in fact some sort of "Leftie Green plot" to cut down on Green House Gases?  (That may not be grasping at straws as ridiculous as it sounds.)  This TB policy is really ridiculous in its application to ALL DND and CAF installations/locations.

Sorry george but under the FAA and Income Tax act, those are the rules.  Rules that we fall under.  Yes it is a form of taxation.  If you are provided with free parking that meets CRA's definition you have to pay tax on that.  Employers may not charge for parking (some do) and if the parking is viewed as a benifit it has to provide the taxable info on that.  And it has been around for a while.  And it does not apply to all DND and CAF locations.  The fact is that TB and CRA have decided it's time to apply the rukes we were always subject to.  Just be lucky they haven't asked for retroactive payment on it.

This is a good article that explains the policy as it applies to ALL Canadians.

http://www.cbj.ca/features/may_12_features/employer-provided_parking_when_is_it_a_taxable_benefit_to_the_em.html
 
Crantor said:
Sorry george but under the FAA and Income Tax act, those are the rules.  Rules that we fall under.  Yes it is a form of taxation.  If you are provided with free parking that meets CRA's definition you have to pay tax on that.  Employers may not charge for parking (some do) and if the parking is viewed as a benifit it has to provide the taxable info on that.  And it has been around for a while.  And it does not apply to all DND and CAF locations.  The fact is that TB and CRA have decided it's time to apply the rukes we were always subject to.  Just be lucky they haven't asked for retroactive payment on it.

This is a good article that explains the policy as it applies to ALL Canadians.

http://www.cbj.ca/features/may_12_features/employer-provided_parking_when_is_it_a_taxable_benefit_to_the_em.html

I still say it is BS.  How long before they decide that the building that you work in is the same as the parking lot; a benefit?
 
Crantor said:
This is a good article that explains the policy as it applies to ALL Canadians.

http://www.cbj.ca/features/may_12_features/employer-provided_parking_when_is_it_a_taxable_benefit_to_the_em.html

If the employee is considered to have received a taxable benefit, the employee will be taxed to the extent that the value of the benefit exceeds the amount the employee paid, if any, to the employer for the parking.  The employee will also be assessed for Canada Pension Plan (CPP) contributions and employment insurance (EI) premiums on the benefit amount to the extent that the employee has not otherwise paid the maximum CPP and EI amounts for the year.

Similarly, the employer may also be assessed for employer CPP contributions and EI premiums on the amount of the benefit where it has not otherwise paid the maximum amounts for that employee for the year. Finally, GST/HST may apply to the amount of the benefit.

Employer-Provided Parking as a Taxable Benefit

What the Courts Say

The Supreme Court of Canada has held, in R. v. Savage, that in order for a benefit to be a taxable benefit to an employee, the receipt of the benefit must confer an economic benefit on the employee. In determining whether the employee has received an economic benefit, the courts normally look at whether the benefit has a business purpose to the employer.  Where there is a business purpose, the benefit is considered to be that of the employer rather than the employee and, consequently, there will be no taxable benefit to the employee.

The Tax Court of Canada has considered in several cases whether employer-provided parking resulted in a taxable benefit to employees. These cases show that the determination of whether an employee has received a taxable benefit from employer-provided parking will depend on the facts relevant to the particular employee.


What that leaves out is the costs incurred by the employee in their transportation to and from work, either the use of Public Transportation or private owned motor vehicle.  It is a form of DOUBLE TAXATION.  Employees must pay taxes on their Transit Tickets, Fuel, Vehicle Repairs and Maintenance, Tolls on Roads/Highways, etc.  This rules are flawed and go towards encouraging us to become more and more a WELFARE State.  Again, how long will it be before the employee is charged more to work than to collect Social Assistance?

This to me, tells me that many of our Senior Bureaucrats and Law Courts have lost touch with reality.  Makes me wonder, if in the days before the automobile, if a Federal worker was charged to hitch their horse up to a rail outside their Government office?
 
Here is another quote from the article Crantor cited:

"As a practical matter, the CRA considers the fair market value of employer-provided parking to be nil where the employer’s business operates from a shopping centre or industrial park where parking is available for free to both employees and non-employees."

I would surmise that 99% of the Army bases can be considered "industrial park" (large facilities located outside of normal residential areas, with large amount of room available and limited transit availability, which by necessity need to draw their employees from far and wide in the area.) and have parking available free to all comers, unless a formal decision to the contrary is made by the CoC.

The Air Force bases are in the same situation.

This leaves the Navy, which unfortunately has its two main bases located in urban settings with reasonable transit available. Many members, however, would qualify for exemption under the parking required for the benefit of the employer rule.

This said, however, what is required is not to make parking on such military facilities payable through fees, but to assess the value of the taxable benefit for tax purposes.
 
 
While it is Taxation it isn't double taxation.  You are taxed on that specific benefit.  While I may be taxed on the fuel, tolls and road those are specific.  Transport to and from work, listed in that article is not considered a benefit to the employer by CRA.  That's all personal use.  How I get to work and where I come from isn't the employer's problem.

If your location falls under the rules, then you either pay for parking (no benefit) or parking gets provided (taxable benefit with all the consequences that that entails)

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/bsnss/tpcs/pyrll/bnfts/menu-eng.html
 
Whatever the rules, I still think it is morally wrong for an employer to charge an employee any fees to have the privilege to work for them. 
 
AmmoTech90 said:
Probably get a warning for this but go frig yourself you self-rightous prick.  You are setting an awesome example by painting an entire org with a broad brush.  Every unit, even yours, has people like you have just described.

Sorry the truth hurts so bad  :'(

If you are saying that my unit has people that don't have enough pride or discipline to polish their boots, iron their uniform or look after their health then I would unfortunately have to agree with you.  Not something I really want to emulate though.

George Wallace said:
Whatever the rules, I still think it is morally wrong for an employer to charge an employee any fees to have the privilege to work for them. 

I agree George, it tells me that the company doesn't really value me as an employee.
 
George Wallace said:
Whatever the rules, I still think it is morally wrong for an employer to charge an employee any fees to have the privilege to work for them.

Playing devil's advocate again, but how is paying for parking considered a fee to work for someone?
 
So, the local armoury here is twined with the city police training establishment. The property is owned by the city and leased by DND for the military portion. It has a common parking lot for military, police functions, civic and community events.It is not on a bus route (during evening hours). Parking is free, first come, first parked.How is TB going to tell the City that everyone can park in the parking lot for free.

Oh, except for Reservists, you'll have to charge them for parking but anyone else is good to go.

If you try apply the prices in this thread, many Reservists will be working for almost free.

And that will only last for a couple of months before the NES letters start going out and kit starts getting turned in.

In many cases, they are already treated like a pariah this will only serve to alienate them that much more.
 
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