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Our 'maybe' new recce vehicle

A few questions.

What are the diesel powered ATV's?

Do we have a recent good pic of this Nyala vehicle and will it really carry 11 troops? Isn't that more than a LAV III?

$120 million for 50- there must be more included in the deal.

And: notice he isn't saying "hunting and killing" anymore?

Cheers
 
The South Africans have a long histroy in mine protected vehicles.  I saw a number of them in Namibia when I was there in 1989.  I spoke with some SA and SWATF soldiers who had been in vehicles that hit mines.  The fact that they were still around to talk to me says something about the vehicles.  I think it should prove to be a good purchase for us.
 
http://www.baesystemsomc.co.za/Default.aspx?tabid=652
http://www.baesystemsomc.co.za/Default.aspx?tabid=648
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RG-31

BAE Systems, which recently bought the South African company OMC, is in the process of reorganizing that business unit.  The BAE marketing types that produce their websites appear to be confused/confusing about their own product line.

This blurb taken from their corporate website suggests that they consider the RG-12 to be the Nyala. 

Light Armoured Vehicles (such as the Wasp Rapid Deployment Reconnaissance Vehicle). 
 
Mine-protected Vehicles (such as Casspir, Mamba, RG-31, Okapi and Kobra). 
 
Police and Security Vehicles (such as the Scout and RG-12 Nyala) 

http://www.na.baesystems.com/landArmaments.cfm

Both the RG-12 and the RG-31 are armoured buses but the RG-31 seems the more likely choice as it apparently has better off-road abilities and is armoured against heavier mines than the RG-12.



 
Back to the DUROs for a moment - the UK is ordering them as comms vehicles and bomb disposal squad carriers.

Over 100 DURO Vehicles for the United Kingdom
 
 
(Source: Mowag AG; dated Oct. 31, web-posted Nov. 18, 2005)
 
 
At the end of July the Defense Procurement Agency in the UK signed up for the delivery of 35 multipurpose military-type DURO vehicles from MOWAG GmbH. This is the third contract with the British Army within the last nine months. In total, 101 DURO vehicles have been ordered. Following completion of production and delivery of these three contracts, 198 DURO will be in operation in the UK. 

At the beginning of 2003 MOWAG GmbH took over the DURO business sector from Bucher Industries. During the past two years MOWAG has further developed the original vehicle concept and is now present in the important 12 tonne market segment with the DURO III. 

Of the 198 vehicles ordered or already delivered by/to the UK, 124 are the smaller DURO II version with a maximum GVW of 9 tonnes, of which 6 vehicles are for ammunition disposal (mine clearance and bomb disposal) and 118 vehicles as carriers of communications systems. 

Of the 66 larger DURO III vehicles, 48 will also be applied as communications vehicles, whereas 18 DUROs will be equipped for bomb disposal. A number of these DUROs are already in operation with the British Army in Iraq for bomb disposal missions. 

Apart from the UK, in 2004 and 2005 Germany has already acquired a total of 30 of the further developed armoured DURO III P vehicles. These vehicles have proven their performance and reliability in Peace Keeping missions with the German Bundeswehr in Afghanistan. Based on the good experience gained in Peace Keeping missions abroad, MOWAG GmbH expects further orders from both the UK and Germany. 

The CEO at MOWAG GmbH, Simon T. Honess, is very pleased with the close cooperation with the UK, and stated: "The three current contacts are proof of the customer's trust in the performance and reliability of the DURO, as well as the real partnership between the British procurement agencies and MOWAG GmbH." 

This trust is also reflected in the fact that MOWAG is the only off-shore (non-British) company with a long-term Option Contract with the (UK) Procurement Agency. 

When asked to address the significance of these contracts for MOWAG GmbH, Honess stated: "With the further development and successful marketing of the DUROs, we have managed to establish a second independent product line in a completely different segment in parallel to the successful PIRANHA family of armoured wheeled vehicles. The creation of a second main pillar in parallel to the PIRANHA was also the strategic target when taking over the DURO segment from Bucher Industries. I am convinced that the DURO will be the source of much gratification for us in Kreuzlingen". 

A large number of suppliers in Switzerland are also profiting from the current sales success of the DURO, as more than 80% of the vehicle parts are produced in Switzerland. 


MOWAG GmbH of Kreuzlingen develops, designs, and manufactures technologically advanced special vehicles for military use. Far more than 10'000 armoured wheeled vehicles of the MOWAG PIRANHA, MOWAG EAGLE, and MOWAG DURO series are fielded all over the world. Since October of 2003, MOWAG is part of the General Dynamics European Land Combat Systems group, and employs a qualified staff of more than 500 in its Kreuzlingen site. 

-ends- 

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.16775233.1132588580.Q4HuJMOa9dUAABdad3k&modele=jdc_34
 
Looks great.  I've wondered for a while when this vehicle was going to be looked at.  But why is the Army procuring the RG-31 and looking at the Duro APV?  Aren't these two vehicles relatively similar, although the Duro looks live a a 4-crew vehicle and the RG-31 carries 6-10 depending on variant.
 
From what I could tell (and this is mostly a SWAG), the Duro is being offered to replace/suippliment the G-wagon C&R, while the RG-31 is a sort of M-113 on wheels battle taxi for use in theater.

The Duro has not been selected (as far as I know, this entire subject is still up for discussion on the official net), so for now we are using the G-wagon and various versions of the Coyote for recce.
 
Well, as we have done historically, we may have to acquire a variety of vehs for Recce.  In WW II, our Recce Regts operated a wide range of vehicles within their organizations.  We used the Otter, the Fox, the Lynx II, Staghounds, White Half-tracks, jeeps, etc. to accomplish our role.  One thing we were always taught was "Flexibility".  Restricting ourselves to one "all seeing, all dancing, does everything" vehicle may in fact take away any flexibility we may have had.  It may be a good thing to acquire a variety of vehs.  Keep the Coyotes in the Surv Role and bring in a mix to do the Mud Recce and other Recce Tasks.
 
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehlarv.htm

It looks like Canada is getting into the market for an actual, non Coyote sezed armoured recce vehicle.

It certainly looks like an interesting venture.  It would be even nicer if the Reserves get a few of these so we can actually be "armoured recce" with a true armoured recce vehicle.
 
For more discussion on this topic see:

Armoured Recce Vehicle: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36019.0.html

Our 'maybe' new recce vehicle: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/35535.0.html

"Trading Saber for Stealth" or "Are We a One Trick Pony?": http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/35526.0.html
 
According to GDLS Canada it's $60.3 million for 50 RG-31's not $120 million.
http://www.gdlscanada.com/news/releases/07-12-2005.asp

A little easier to swallow but still 4 times that of the LAV (according to army guide)
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product.php?prodID=1055

Is it That much better than A LAV that it deserves such a high price tag? I'm A civilian and don't know these things, I'm just asking because it seems like it may be more feasible to buy more LAV's which are made in Canada and keep our money here at home?

Please don't take this as another Civilian trying to under-fund the CF. I think that Canada should spend WHATEVER is Needed to defend our country. I just like to see them shop at home because of the far reaching economic benefits.

I appreciate your patience and love this site, It's very informative on whats going on in the CF.
Thanks!


 
Dana:

Welcome to the site -  I think if you do a bit more searching you will find that while a bare-bones LAV may cost 284,000 a LAV with turret, comms, and defensive aids costs more like 2-4 million.

Similarly with the RG-31.  The bare vehicle is in the 100,000 range but the Remote Weapons Station alone can cost an additional 250,000.

This phenomenon is also true of ships and aircraft.  The vehicle itself is becoming a smaller and smaller portion of the actual system cost.

Cheers.
 
Thank's Kirkhill. That makes more sense, I assumed those were a basic LAV III fully equipped with the turret and comms. I was wondering how they would stack up against mines compared to the RG-31. I still like to see them shop at home though, I wish there was a Canadian made counterpart.
 
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