On Casualties...

[Reccesoldier]

How about these figures:

Rwanda almost 1,000,000 due to lack of military action to prevent genocide

Failure to effectively intervene during the 2nd Congo War almost 5,000,000 killed between 1998 and 2002

Srebrenica massacre

Somalia...

Darfur...

The list of instances where we (as human beings) have done bugger all to assist our fellow travelers far outweighs the measly (though not insignificant, unimportant or heartfelt) cost in terms of lives lost during those rare instances where we have shown that humanity DOES mean something to the vast majority of people and nations.

Imagine if you will how many Jews would be dead had the world not stood up and said ENOUGH!  Those are the numbers that really matter

 

[Kat Stevens]

On July 1, 1916, the first day of the Battle of the Somme in World War I, 801 soldiers of the 1st Newfoundland Regiment rose from the British trenches and went into battle at Beaumont-Hamel, nine kilometers north of Albert in France. After only 30 minutes the regiment was devastated. Only 68 men stood to answer the regimental role call the next morning. 255 were dead, 386 were wounded, and 91 were listed as missing in action and presumed dead. Every officer who had gone over the top was either wounded or dead.

 

[3rd Herd]

Imagine if you will how many Jews would be dead had the world not stood up and said ENOUGH!  Those are the numbers that really matter

Imagine if you will how many Jews would be alive if the world had stood up and said ENOUGH! sooner than later.

Why did Canada Refuse to Admit Jewish Refugees in the 1930's? http://faculty.marianopolis.edu/c.belanger/quebechistory/readings/CanadaandJewishRefugeesinthe1930s.html

for more of an international flavor:
SUPPLEMENTARY READING MATERIALS
http://www.ushmm.org/museum/exhibit/online/stlouis/teach/supread.htm#two

or my particular favorite:

"Historian Robert Conquest, in The Harvest of Sorrow, his definitive account of Stalin's reign of rural terror, estimated that 14.5 million people, half of them children, perished. Dekulakization killed 6.5 million, and famine claimed most of the rest."
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/articles/030630/3070thanniv.htm

 

[Reccesoldier]

3rd Herd, that was my point, give or take.

 

[3rd Herd]

3rd Herd, that was my point, give or take.

Sorry,
I just figured a little background over the earlier time period was appropriate given the "Jewish Question".

 

[FascistLibertarian]

But if you look by individual battle, the highest rates for Canadian individual units aside of Dieppe was the Black Watch in the Opening of Antwerp.

Operation Spring was the 2nd worst day for an individual battalion after the RRofC @ Puys
but that was all in one day
the black watch got wrecked at least twice

 

[Munxcub]

My wife brought up an interesting point the other day. She was wondering how plausible it would be that 70 or so people would die over 5 years in a community as large as the CF if it was just a normal town or something...

 

[Haggis]

As heartless as this comment may seem, comparing the numbers of casualties in past battles is irrelevant in the current context.

Yes, massive casualties were sustained in a very short period at Beaumont Hamel, Vimy, Puys, Antwerp and elsewhere.  But none of those events were reported to the Canadian voters with the immediacy and accompanying detailed, orgyasitc and self-flaggelating analysis of a SINGLE Canadian death in Afghanistan.  None of those "World War" deaths were reported as defeats to an already highly polarized population by a media which focuses exclusively on the impotence of western armies against the Taliban.

Yet that same media will agonize, with excruciating regularity, that a couple of Taliban who had, only minutes before, ATTEMPTED TO KILL Canadian troops, were 'mistreated' ONCE OUT OF CANADIAN HANDS.

Where's the 'vomit' smiley?

 

[Old Sweat]

Haggis made a good point. It is easier for the news of one or two or six deaths in a day to make a personal impact than is the case for a series of many deaths being reported over and over, even when the one day fdigure reaches the hundreds.

 

[Haggis]

Haggis made a good point. It is easier for the news of one or two or six deaths in a day to make a personal impact than is the case for a series of many deaths being reported over and over, even when the one day fdigure reaches the hundreds.

Simple combat deaths are one thing.  Imagine the Liberal media feeding frenzy if, God forbid, one of ours was captured and beheaded on live, streaming video.

 

[Haggis]

My wife brought up an interesting point the other day. She was wondering how plausible it would be that 70 or so people would die over 5 years in a community as large as the CF if it was just a normal town or something...

Just as a point of comparison, I reviewed the web site for one of our local funeral homes (population here is about 55,000).  There were 49 deaths in July 2007, one was a homicide (an infant) and six were accidental.  Seven members of our community died by "other than natural causes".

 

[tomahawk6]

I think the Canadian voter should get alot of credit for understanding the importance of the mission in Afghanistan. You dont see half a million protestors marching on Parliament do you ? If the mission was not supported by the public thats what you would see. The left in the US have tried to mobilize anti-war protestors a la Vietnam and have failed. The bottom line is that the large majority of Canadian and US voters support the cause for better or worse.

 

[Haggis]

I think the Canadian voter should get alot of credit for understanding the importance of the mission in Afghanistan. You dont see half a million protestors marching on Parliament do you ? If the mission was not supported by the public thats what you would see. The left in the US have tried to mobilize anti-war protestors a la Vietnam and have failed. The bottom line is that the large majority of Canadian and US voters support the cause for better or worse.

I'm sure that's true, as evidenced by the number of "a nice thing happened to me..." posts we've seen on Army.ca of late.  However, that silent majority is easily overshadowed by the vocal minority who seem to be able to influence opinion and politicians through volume rather than facts.

What gets me is those who shout "Support the Troops - Bring them Home!" without giving any serious thought to why we have Armed Forces in the first place.  Certainly Canada is not a country where the Army is deployed regularly in support of law enforcement (SAR and humanitarian aid aside).  Certainly this vocal group (which includes the NDP) wouldn't rather see us deployed in that manner.

Would they....?

 

[tomahawk6]

The reason the minority is vocal is that they are unable to persuade the majority to join them. The thing that bothers most people is that the minority seems to be siding with the enemy.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

My wife brought up an interesting point the other day. She was wondering how plausible it would be that 70 or so people would die over 5 years in a community as large as the CF if it was just a normal town or something...

Until one looks at the ages......

 

[tomahawk6]

In the US we lose 43,000 people a year on our highways,despite laws designed to protect people from themselves. Fatalities in combat per year or but a fraction of that. Unlike our highway deaths who die needlessly those who die in the service of our respective countries do so for a noble cause - freedom. We need to look at this issue less from a statistical viewpoint and more from a risk - return standpoint. Some 67 Canadian soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan.Their impact on the Afghan's they come into contact with is immeasureable. The Afghans have never been friendly toward foreign troops and yet most Afghans dont want to see foreign troops leave. Why ? Because they see soldiers trying to help the average Afghan improve his way of life and are putting it all on the line to accomplish the mission. They know that Canadian troops dont have to be in Kandahar but they do appreciate their presence. Kandahar was the Al Anbar province of Afghanistan. It was the spiritual home of the Taliban. The assignment in that area was risky but vital for the Afghan government if they are to be seen to govern the entire country.The loss of any soldier is tragic for the family of the fallen but the solace for them is that their loved one died in a cause they believed in.Those who serve the nation know that at any time they may have to make the ultimate sacrifice. Its unfortunate that the death of a soldier has to be a political football. The death of a soldier should be mourned and honored by all.

 

[Roy Harding]

... Its unfortunate that the death of a soldier has to be a political football. The death of a soldier should be mourned and honored by all.

Amen.

 

[Infanteer]

Uhh...what are we talking about and where is this thread going?  ???

 

[FascistLibertarian]

the media is a very good point. 24 hour news channels and blogs are a big one.
I personally feel without tv and investigative reporters America might nt have lost in Vietnam.

We should also consider that people have less children these days and invest more money in their education and development.
This will clearly make the 'value' of human life rise.
This may sound harsh but honestly, if you have 6 kids and 3 died in ww2 you still have 3 more.
I have a brother and a sister and compared to many of my friends this is a big family.
If you only have one kid it would be worse if they died than if you had three.

(i am in no way trying to minimize the loss of large families).

 

[George Wallace]

the media is a very good point. 24 hour news channels and blogs are a big one.
I personally feel without tv and investigative reporters America might nt have lost in Vietnam.

True.

Your statement, whowever, can lead to a whole other topic, and in fact it has been discussed on this site before.  The US never lost any major actions in Vietnam.   So the question really is; did they loose the war in Vietnam, or did they loose the war at home?  Many would say that they lost the war at home, and that is what we are facing again today, a war being won by the people, not necessarily citizens of our nations, who have the best spin on the media front.  It happened in the Balkens, it is happening in the Middle East and now in South West Asia.