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North Korea (Superthread)

They easily have the ability to hit Japan with missiles and their limited airpower initially. Their airpower would be taken out quite simply as well as what little naval power they have as well. Unless this Taepo Dong-2 is recognized as a coverup with a nuke on it(which I doubt it is altohough there is a blanket over the missle right now so we can't see) or the missile looks as though it may fall on Japan, I think it will go untouched after the launch. The US and allies are not willing to risk an all out conventional war with North Korea knowing the initial devastating effects, with the current military situation in Iraq and Afghanistan, over a missile test which they have already done many of times. The United States' only safe bet with their current situation right now is to appease the DPRK as they have for the past few decades. I guess we'll see what will happen in 2-6 more days. I know I'll be checking the news as I have been for the last 8 years following this situation closely.
 
Another update- at least we now know a possible launch time.  :o

Report: NKorea fueling rocket for impending launch (3:02 p.m.)

SEOUL, South Korea -- North Korea has begun fueling a long-range rocket for an impending launch, a news report said Thursday, as President Barack Obama warned the liftoff would be a "provocative act" that would generate a U.N. Security Council response.

North Korea says it will send a communications satellite into orbit on a multistage rocket sometime from Saturday to Wednesday. The U.S., South Korea and Japan think the reclusive country is using the launch to test long-range missile technology; they've warned the move would violate a Security Council resolution banning the North from ballistic activity.

Regional powers have also begun to deploy ships to monitor the launch, and Japan is preparing to intercept any debris that might fall if the launch goes awry - moves that have prompted several threats of retaliation from Pyongyang, including one Thursday.

Meanwhile, CNN television said on its Web site that Pyongyang has started to fuel the rocket. The report, citing an unidentified senior U.S. military official, said the move indicates final preparations for the launch. Experts say the missile can be fired about three to four days after fueling begins.

Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Takeo Kawamura said the U.S. and Japanese governments have not confirmed that fueling has begun. South Korea's Defense Ministry declined to comment on the report.

Obama denounced the planned launch as "a provocative act" and a breach of the U.N. resolution while speaking with Chinese President Hu Jintao on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in London on Wednesday, according to the White House Web site.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton urged the North to reconsider the launch, saying: "There will obviously be consequences if they do proceed with this."

The North countered with its own warnings against any efforts to intercept the rocket, take the issue to the Security Council or even monitor the launch. It says its armed forces are at a high level of combat-readiness.

The North has said debris from the rocket could fall off Japan's northern coast, so Tokyo has deployed battleships with anti-missile systems to the area and set up Patriot missile interceptors. It says it has no intention of trying to shoot down the rocket itself.

"If Japan imprudently carries out an act of intercepting our peaceful satellite, our people's army will hand a thunderbolt of fire to not only interceptor means already deployed, but also key targets," said a report Thursday by the North's official Korean Central News Agency that quoted the general staff of its military.


In what appeared to be a reference to American warships that have reportedly set sail to monitor the launch, the Korean-language version of the KCNA report said: "The United States should immediately withdraw armed forces deployed if it does not want to receive damage."

An English version said the U.S. forces could be hit in a retaliatory strike against Japan.

On Wednesday, the North threatened to shoot down any spy planes that intrude into its airspace.

South Korea's Chosun Ilbo daily reported Thursday that North Korea has redeployed newer fighter jets along its east coast in a possible indication that the regime was serious about the threat. The report, which had no other details, cited an unnamed government source. South Korea's Defense Ministry said it could not confirm it.

The rocket issue is expected to be a key topic at Obama's talks with South Korean President Lee Myung-bak on Thursday. Lee has sought to drum up support from world leaders in London for punishing its neighbor if the launch goes forward.

In Washington, U.S. lawmakers are urging Obama to shoot down the rocket if it endangers the United States or its allies. But U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said in a TV interview aired Sunday that the U.S. had no plans to intercept the rocket but might consider it if an "aberrant missile" were headed to Hawaii "or something like that."
(AP)
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/network/report-nkorea-fueling-rocket-impending-launch-302-pm
 
The launch has been delayed so far, though we should stay tuned for what happens next.
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/rss/topstories/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090404/ap_on_re_as/as_nkorea_missile

Wind may have forced NKorea to delay rocket launch
Writer Hyung-jin Kim, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 56 mins ago
SEOUL, South Korea – High winds may have forced North Korea to delay its rocket launch, despite the country's insistence Saturday that preparations were complete for the liftoff that many suspect is intended to test the country's long-range missile capabilities.

Regional powers deployed warships and trained their satellites on the communist country to monitor what they suspect will be a test for a missile capable of reaching Alaska.

(...)

However, the day's stated 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. timeframe passed without any sign of a launch. North Korea had announced last month the launch would take place sometime between April 4 and 8 during those hours.

Winds reported as "relatively strong" around the northeastern North Korean launch pad in Musudan-ri may have kept the North from launching the rocket Saturday, analyst Paik Hak-soon of the private Sejong Institute think tank said.


"North Korea cannot afford a technical failure," he said. "North Korea wouldn't fire the rocket if there's even a minor concern about the weather."

Japan again urged North Korea to refrain from a launch that Washington, Seoul and Tokyo suspect is a guise for testing the regime's long-range missile technology — a worrying development because North Korea has acknowledged it has nuclear weapons and has repeatedly broken promises to shelve its nuclear program or halt rocket tests.

(...)

President Barack Obama said Friday that a launch would be "provocative" and prompt the U.S. to "take appropriate steps to let North Korea know that it can't threaten the safety and security of other countries with impunity."

(...)

The South Korean government urged citizens working at joint economic zones and in Pyongyang to return home because of the "grave" tensions on the peninsula. More than 600 South Koreans left North Korea on Saturday, the Unification Ministry said in Seoul.

___

Associated Press writers Kwang-tae Kim in Seoul, Shino Yuasa in Tokyo, Foster Klug in Washington and John Heilprin at the U.N. contributed to this report.
 
Seems as though the missile is currently in the air.

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea appeared to launch a rocket on Sunday, the Japanese government said, defying calls from world leaders to scrap a plan that has caused international alarm.


It was not immediately clear if the launch had been successful, or if it was a long-range version of the rocket.


The rocket is supposed to fly over Japan, dropping boosters to its west and east on a path that runs southwest of Hawaii.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/090405/world/international_us_korea_north
 
Another update: It seems that the US or Japan have not shot it down from what has been reported so far.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/090405/world/international_us_korea_north

North Korean rocket passes over Japan

43 minutes ago

By Linda Sieg and Jack Kim

TOKYO/SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea launched a long-range rocket on Sunday that passed over Japan, the government in Tokyo said, defying calls from world leaders to scrap a plan that has caused international alarm.

The U.S. State Department confirmed North Korea had launched the rocket but had no further details. South Korea's presidential Blue House would make a statement at 11:00 p.m. EDT, local TV said.

Japan said the rocket's second booster stage had splashed down in the Pacific Ocean, indicating the launch had been successful.

"The projectile launched from North Korea today appears to have passed over toward the Pacific," the Japan prime minister's office said in a statement.

The United States, South Korea and Japan say the launch is actually the test of a Taepodong-2 missile, which is designed to carry a warhead as far as Alaska.

(...)

JAPAN SAYS TOOK NO ACTION AGAINST ROCKET


Japan's Kyodo news agency said no interceptors had been launched at the rocket and no damage on the ground had been reported.


Japan had dispatched missile intercepting-ships and anti-missile batteries along the projected flight path.


Tokyo said it would not intercept the missile but that it was ready to shoot down any debris, such as falling booster stages, that might threaten its territory.


(...)
 
Seems like they are going to let this one fly without too many extra sanctions(no pun intended). It's far from, but it's beginning to remind me Churchill appeasing Hitler, letting him build and build until it was too late. Something is eventually going to have to be done, and with an 8 million man army(in total) it won't possible by the people of the DPRK themselves.
 
Sonnyjim said:
Seems like they are going to let this one fly without too many extra sanctions(no pun intended). It's far from, but it's beginning to remind me Churchill appeasing Hitler, letting him build and build until it was too late. Something is eventually going to have to be done, and with an 8 million man army(in total) it won't possible by the people of the DPRK themselves.

Get your history straight. Prime Minister CHAMBERLAIN appeased Hitler, not Churchill. Churchill was his successor and a great man.  Chamberlain was the one who said "Peace in our time" only to see WW2 break out only a year after he let Hitler take the Sudetenland part of Czechoslovakia.
 
Sonnyjim said:
it's beginning to remind me Churchill appeasing Hitler, letting him build and build until it was too late.

Churshill never appeased Hitler.
Churchill, like many airmen, saw rockets/missles ( V1 ) as cowardly weapons launched by men who did not risk their lives in the killing of others. He seriously considered reprisal gas  attacks against Germany, and several Bomber Command squadrons were specially trained to carry them out. Gen Eisenhower was among those who dissuaded him.
However, Bomber Command was compelled to divert aircraft to the ineffectual counter-offensive against them.
 
From the ArmyTimes.

NORAD: N. Korean rocket launch a failure

The Associated Press
Posted : Sunday Apr 5, 2009 8:58:21 EDT
 
SEOUL, South Korea — Orbit or ocean?

North Korea claims the rocket it sent up Sunday put an experimental communications satellite into space and that it is transmitting data and patriotic songs. The U.S. military says whatever left the launch pad ended up at the bottom of the sea.

North Korea has a history of hyperbole. In creating a cult of personality for its leader, Kim Jong Il, its media rewrote the story of his birth along biblical lines and once said that when he took up golf, he was firing holes-in-one with regularity.

The North’s official Korean Central News Agency said the three-stage rocket “accurately” put a satellite into orbit nine minutes and two seconds after launch. It provided details on an elliptical orbit that it said was taking the satellite around the Earth every 104 minutes and 12 seconds.

“The satellite is transmitting the melodies of the immortal revolutionary paeans ‘Song of Gen. Kim Il Sung’ and ‘Song of Gen. Kim Jong Il’ as well as measurement data back to Earth,” KCNA said, referring to the country’s late founder and his son, the current leader.

“The carrier rocket and the satellite developed by the indigenous wisdom and technology are the shining results gained in the efforts to develop the nation’s space science and technology on a higher level,” it said.

But North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) and U.S. Northern Command officials issued a statement disputing any success.

“Stage one of the missile fell into the Sea of Japan,” the statement said. “The remaining stages along with the payload itself landed in the Pacific Ocean. No object entered orbit and no debris fell on Japan.”

U.S., South Korean and Japanese officials — who monitored the launch from nearby warships and high-resolution spy satellite cameras — have said they suspect the North was really testing long-range ballistic missile technology that could be used to carry a nuclear warhead to Alaska or beyond.
 
The short & sweet version from NORTHCOM:
North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command officials acknowledged today that North Korea launched a Taepo Dong 2 missile at 10:30 p.m. EDT Saturday which passed over the Sea of Japan/East Sea and the nation of Japan.

Stage one of the missile fell into the Sea of Japan/East Sea. The remaining stages along with the payload itself landed in the Pacific Ocean.

No object entered orbit and no debris fell on Japan.

NORAD and USNORTHCOM assessed the space launch vehicle as not a threat to North America or Hawaii and took no action in response to this launch.

This is all of the information that will be provided by NORAD and USNORTHCOM pertaining to the launch.
 
Sorry, I meant Chamberlain, wrote that in a rush this morning. However, my main point is this; How much longer is the world going to stand by and allow the DPRK to freely violate International Regulations on their own watch with little slaps on the wrist?

My comparisson to Hitler/Nazi Germany is that they were allowed to violate treaty after treaty and gain a foothold that was too late to break once they were powerful enough. I know that taking over countries(WW2) is different than a missile launch, but I personally do see a parallel. Maybe it's just me. I don't have a degree in Political Science or World Strategy (hence my mixup of Churchill and Chamberlain) so my thoughts are based on what I've seen over the past 8 years and from different books on North Korea and Kim Jong Il (Rogue Regime: Kim Jong Il and the Looming Threat of North Korea by Jasper Becker). If we're going to stand up for the free world we need to be tougher on the DPRK and stop with the wrist slaps.
 
          I personally think the rest of the world will just keep letting North Korea do there thing .  Mostly because the rest of the world does not have a stomach for that kind of military campaign .
 
karl28 said:
          I personally think the rest of the world will just keep letting North Korea do there thing .  Mostly because the rest of the world does not have a stomach for that kind of military campaign .

And I agree. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain Asian with a huge population country had their fingers in this pie.
Plus the fact that the UN is basically hamstrung by the Security Council. North Korea with nukes is like letting your 3 year old play with your assault rifle. Who knows what Kim Jong Il will do, or even if he is alive?

Oh, but we shouldn't shove our beleifs down other poeple's throats, right?
 
OldSolduer
 
          Yeah I think we both know that a certain Asian country has been to involved with N. Korea ever sense the Korean war . How else could N Korea survive .  Sadly nothing will be done till N Korea drops an A bomb on either Soul  or Tokyo(Names of the cities may be spelt wrong I used Spell check but I still think there wrong )  but by than it may be to late to do anything .
 
Launch exposed limits of NKorea military: report

Tue, Apr 07, 2009
AFP



SEOUL - North Korea's rocket launch has exposed the limitations of its military with radar unable to track the object far enough, one ship breaking down and a warplane crashing, a report here said Tuesday.

South Korea's JoongAng Ilbo newspaper, quoting intelligence sources, said the communist state had been unable to track the long-range rocket beyond a certain distance.


"North Korea managed to launch a rocket, but Pyongyang's authorities were somewhat disorganised," one source told JoongAng.




It said a ship which set sail for the Pacific to try to locate the rocket debris had to turn back due to mechanical problems.

The paper also said a MiG-21 jet which was scrambled to protect the launch site crashed due to poor maintenance.

Seoul had learned that North Korean officials involved were "busy passing the buck" over the mission's failure, it reported.

"North Korea claimed it successfully put a satellite into orbit but it did not know where the projectile landed. That's because they had no radar capable of tracking it thousands of kilometres away," the conservative paper said.

Seoul's defence ministry declined comment, a spokesman telling AFP that all he could confirm was that North Korean fighter jets had scrambled.

The National Intelligence Service was not immediately available to comment.

Defying international pressure, North Korea fired a rocket Sunday which it said put a communications satellite into orbit.

Critics led by the United States however say it was a disguised long-range missile test, and have referred it to the UN Security Council.

Despite Pyongyang's claims that the satellite is now orbiting Earth, South Korea, Japan, the US military and a senior Russian official say no such object has been detected in orbit.

Foreign analysts have described the launch as a failed test of a long-range missile, saying it appeared the second and third stages failed to separate and caused the rocket to crash into the Pacific short of the designated area.

South Korean experts said the Taepodong-2 missile still travelled for some 3,200 kilometres (2,000 miles) - double the range the North achieved in 1998 with a Taepodong-1 launch.

North Korea's 1.2 million-strong military is the world's fifth largest. But analysts say the impoverished state has problems equipping it and even in some cases feeding soldiers.

Yonhap news agency, quoting an unidentified Seoul official, said a North Korean commercial vessel departed for the Pacific to try to track the rocket and possibly retrieve debris but had to turn back.

"We don't clearly know the mechanical problem that appears to have prevented the ship from sailing on. It likely has to do with outdated parts," the official was quoted as saying. -- AFP

http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%...07-133862.html
     
 
Tomahawk 6 - Dear Leader will be none to happy about that!
He'll be more "ronry" than before.... ;)
 
A little humour courtesy of SDA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0hk9vaqWUg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Esmalldeadanimals%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded
 
Seems like Kim's son may not be a frontrunner anymore. Mind you I bet this will change a few times before and after Kim's death.

SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korean leader Kim Jong-il put to rest this week any doubt about whom he sees as his second in command when he elevated his brother-in-law Jang Song-taek to a powerful military post, analysts said on Friday.


Kim, 67, was re-elected to his leadership post at parliament on Thursday but questions about his health, raised by a suspected stroke in August, remained. He cut a gaunt figure at the session and, his hair thinned and graying, walked with a limp onto stage.


http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/090410/world/international_us_korea_north_jang
 
And the DPRK military continues to deteriorate when it comes to quality.

  2 NKorean fighter jets crashed in recent months
AP
By KWANGTAE KIM,Associated Press Writer AP - Tuesday, April 7

SEOUL, South Korea - Two North Korean fighter jets have crashed in recent months during training, South Korea's Defense Ministry said Tuesday.

A North Korean MiG-21 fighter went down in March because of a lack of maintenance, said a ministry official. He spoke on condition of anonymity as he was not authorized to speak to the media.

The official also said another North Korean fighter jet crashed during training in February.

He had no other details on either crash, including the exact dates and the fate of the crew.

Both crashes occurred during ongoing tensions on the Korean peninsula.

North Korea claimed a rocket it launched over Japan on Sunday put a satellite into orbit, though the United States said the payload fell into the Pacific Ocean.

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/ap/20090407/tap-a...sh-d3b07b8.html 
 
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