New Rucksack

[OldSolduer]

Yes, because as we were told at our rucksack fitting and issue, you won't do ruck marches in FFO.  ???

And WHO told you this??

 

[somedude]

Remember the design of this ruck did not take into account Tac Vest and Frag Vest w/Ballistic Plates......

Seems to me that the design of this ruck failed to take into consideration it'd be used by soldiers......

 

[stealthylizard]

And WHO told you this??

I honestly can't recall who it was, or even what rank.  All I remember was that it was someone showing us a power point presentation about it.  The issue was brought up a few times but the reply was pretty much the same all the time, "You won't be using this while wearing FFO w/ plates."

 

[OldSolduer]

I honestly can't recall who it was, or even what rank.  All I remember was that it was someone showing us a power point presentation about it.  The issue was brought up a few times but the reply was pretty much the same all the time, "You won't be using this while wearing FFO w/ plates."

Just a question:

Was this briefing given by an Ottawa NDHQ type?

 

[Jarnhamar]

How much does the new rucksack cost?  $500? $900?

We know that a C7 cleaning kit, for example, costs about $20.  Yet all in all it cost the CF $121 per cleaning kit (price to get it in the system, make it, bla bla).

I can only assume there is the same type of insane markup on rucksacks.

Why can't the CF identify an aftermarket rucksack, say the Kifaru EMR (or whatever) and buy them in bulk.

We don't need to outfit every soldier in the CF with one. I'd expect we don't even need to outfit a third of the CF with this rucksack.  Let the other 2/3rd use the old 82 pattern one- since chances are they will bring it out once a year.

Wouldn't buying some Kifaru rucksack that has already been field tested and proven save us money?
Why can't a general say enough is enough with this business procurement bullshit that we go through over everything.
Old tacvest.
Problems with the new tacves
Problems with the ruck
MSVS.

Will our stupid buying system never end?

 

[Kat Stevens]

It's never going to end as long as decisions on field kit are made by people who think "going to the field" involves either a 36 hour BDF camp out in a drill hall, or building earthwork defenses and stockades around the camp.

 

[armyvern]

We don't need to outfit every soldier in the CF with one. I'd expect we don't even need to outfit a third of the CF with this rucksack.  Let the other 2/3rd use the old 82 pattern one- since chances are they will bring it out once a year.

We don't outfit every soldier with these; we don't even outfit every member of the Land Force with them. See the PIP (page 17, para 48), this rucksack is only issued to:

48. Entitlement. All Regular and Reserve Combat Arms Units. Unit Identification Codes (UICs) are specifically identified at Annex A. The individual entitlement for the Rucksack is qty 1 each to personnel serving within the Units identified at Annex A. Personnel deploying in support of land operations, not belonging to an entitled UIC, can be issued the Rucksack at the request of the Task Force Commander but only on a temporary basis. Personnel being issued the new rucksack from entitled UICs must return the 64 or the 82 pattern rucksack to Base Supply clothing store on a one for one exchange. Those personnel deploying in support of land operations, being issued Rucksacks on a temporary basis, will retain their 64 or 82 pattern rucksack.

Entitled UICs can be found starting at page 1 of Annex A (page 32/54 of the pdf file linked above). Further the CANLANDGEN on this item is included at the end of the pdf file as well (mostly for NFLD Sapper's benefit):

Remember the design of this ruck did not take into account Tac Vest and Frag Vest w/Ballistic Plates......

It should have - same link para 8, page 9/54 of the pdf:

8. The Rucksack is fully compatible with the temperate combat clothing, Integrated Clothing Ensemble (ICE) and can be adjusted to fit over the Fragmentation Protective Vest (FPV) with Bullet Resistant Plates (BRP).

http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/rucksack-havresac-eng.asp

CANLANDGEN 012 – ENGLISH VERSION
CANLANDGEN 012/08 CLS 025/08
101750 Z SEP 08

SUBJ: FIELDING OF THE CLOTHE THE SOLDIER RUCKSACK

1. THE CTS RUCKSACK WILL BE FIELDED TO COMBAT ARMS UNITS AND TF ELEMENTS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO DO SIGNIFICANT DISMOUNTED OPERATIONS LASTING OVER 24 HOURS. FIELDING HAS STARTED WITH UNITS MOUNTING FOR OPERATIONS AND IS EXPECTED TO CONTINUE FOR THE NEXT 2 YEARS. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO PROVIDE DIRECTION FOR THE TRAINING AND FIELDING OF THE CLOTHE THE SOLDIER (CTS) RUCKSACK.

2. THE RUCKSACK IS A COMPLEX SYSTEM THAT USES THE LATEST COMMERCIAL TECHNOLOGIES AND STRINGENT MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS. IT IS AN INDIVIDUALLY SIZED ITEM THAT MUST BE CUSTOM FIT TO EACH SOLDIER. THERE ARE 4 TORSO (RUCKSACK BAG) LENGTHS, 3 SHOULDER STRAP LENGTHS AND 4 HIP BELT DIAMETERS FOR A TOTAL OF 48 POSSIBLE SIZE COMBINATIONS.

3. IN ORDER TO ENSURE PROPER FIT, TRAINED SUPPLY STAFF USING A SPECIAL SIZING JIG, MUST INDIVIDUALLY SIZE SOLDIERS. IT IS THEREFORE CRUCIAL THAT PROPER PROCEDURES ARE FOLLOWED FOR THE ASSEMBLY, FIT AND
ADJUSTMENT OF THE RUCKSACK COMPONENTS IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE THE MAXIMUM BENEFIT AND EFFICIENCY. AN IMPROPERLY FITTED AND/OR ASSEMBLED RUCKSACK COULD CAUSE UNNECESSARY DISCOMFORT, MUSCLE FATIGUE AND INJURY.

4. LESSONS LEARNED FROM CTS FIELDING TO DATE AND THE FIELDING OF SIMILAR SYSTEMS BY ALLIED ARMIES INDICATE THAT MANDATORY TRAINING ON THE PROPER ASSEMBLY AND USE MUST BE COMPLETED BY ALL PERSONNEL BEING ISSUED A RUCKSACK. THE COMBINED TIME REQUIRED TO SIZE AND TRAIN A SOLDIER IS APPROXIMATELY 3 HOURS. INDIVIDUALS WHO DO NOT COMPLETE THE REQUIRED TRAINING WILL NOT REPEAT WILL NOT BE ISSUED A RUCKSACK.

5. THREE PERIODS OF PRACTICAL TRAINING ARE REQUIRED FOR ALL PERSONNEL WHO WILL BE ISSUED A RUCKSACK. SOLDIERS WILL BE INSTRUCTED ON THE ESIGN FEATURES AND ASSEMBLY OF THE RUCKSACK, HOW TO PROPERLY BEND THE
STAYS FOR ONE’S BACK AND PROPER DONNING AND DOFFING PROCEDURES. THE TRAINING PREPARES SOLDIERS TO CUSTOM TAILOR THEIR RUCKSACKS AND ALSO TO MAKE ADJUSTMENTS ON THE MARCH.

6. THE CTS RUCKSACK IS A HIGH TECH ITEM SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH OTHER OPERATIONAL CLOTHING AND EQUIPMENT CURRENTLY IN SERVICE SUCH AS THE CTS TACTICAL VEST AND THE FRAGMENTATION PROTECTIVE VEST. USED PROPERLY, THE RUCKSACK WILL IMPROVE THE SOLDIER’S ABILITY TO BETTER MANAGE HEAVY LOADS WHILE CONDUCTING DISMOUNTED OPERATIONS OVER 24 HOURS.
SIGNED LGEN A.B. LESLIE, CHIEF OF THE LAND STAFF

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Entitled UICs can be found starting at page 1 of Annex A (page 32/54 of the pdf file linked above). Further the CANLANDGEN on this item is included at the end of the pdf file as well (mostly for NFLD Sapper's benefit):

I stand corrected Vern, but I think it makes no sense to size the ruck while the person is only wearing a t-shirt..........

 

[Lerch]

I stand corrected Vern, but I think it makes no sense to size the ruck while the person is only wearing a t-shirt..........

Think about it this way, if you (and everyone else) had been sized with FFO and plates, which is as bulky as you'll ever get...how well will that ruck fit when you're doing a PT ruckmarch with t-shirt and combat pants? It's better to fit something to your smallest size and adjust it when you get bigger then vice versa.

 

[Fusaki]

8. The Rucksack is fully compatible with the temperate combat clothing, Integrated Clothing Ensemble (ICE) and can be adjusted to fit over the Fragmentation Protective Vest (FPV) with Bullet Resistant Plates (BRP).

http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/documents/Rucksack_Implementation_Plan.pdf

I have this mental image of some staff weenie in NDHQ, sitting in his office and reading this forum, saying to himself:

I just don't understand what the troops are complaining about.  In this .pdf it clearly states that the new ruck integrates with their PPV.  This discrepancy calls for a powerpoint and another Frappuccino. Where the hell is the goddamn A/C? It's so hot in here!

:blotto:

 

[DirtyDog]

Think about it this way, if you (and everyone else) had been sized with FFO and plates, which is as bulky as you'll ever get...how well will that ruck fit when you're doing a PT ruckmarch with t-shirt and combat pants? It's better to fit something to your smallest size and adjust it when you get bigger then vice versa.

It be nice if it fit for when you actually needed and not garrison bullcrap.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Think about it this way, if you (and everyone else) had been sized with FFO and plates, which is as bulky as you'll ever get...how well will that ruck fit when you're doing a PT ruckmarch with t-shirt and combat pants? It's better to fit something to your smallest size and adjust it when you get bigger then vice versa.

However, on the flip side wouldn't it also make sense to know that it actually fits (and comfortably at that) when you do have all that extra bulk?  If not, it's useless!

 

[somedude]

After messing about with mine for the past couple of days I'm going to see if I can exchange mine for a shorter frame.

 

[NL_engineer]

According to the army it can be used with the FPV, plates, and Tac Vest; but personal experiences of myself and others say different.

 

[Sully]

This rucksack is an abomination, sponge in the rain, and provides little access to anything without tearing apart your kit. I will continue to use my 64 pattern with extra-long A7A’s / dual valises forever.

 

[daftandbarmy]

This rucksack is an abomination, sponge in the rain, and provides little access to anything without tearing apart your kit. I will continue to use my 64 pattern with extra-long A7A’s / dual valises forever.

Dual valises? I assume that you mean one valise inside the other, for water resistance, right?

 

[Sully]

Dual valises? I assume that you mean one valise inside the other, for water resistance, right?

No. One valise for serialized equipment (stano etc) and one for rations/ warm gear / sleeping bag. These fit nicely together and allows me to pull a valise when leaving an ORV or RP or moving close to the Obj. Sometimes instead of two valises, I use a small pack (non -issued) and an valise instead. Either method works.

 

[daftandbarmy]

No. One valise for serialized equipment (stano etc) and one for rations/ warm gear / sleeping bag. These fit nicely together and allows me to pull a valise when leaving an ORV or RP or moving close to the Obj. Sometimes instead of two valises, I use a small pack (non -issued) and an valise instead. Either method works.

I'm shocked!!

 

[Loachman]

No. One valise for serialized equipment (stano etc) and one for rations/ warm gear / sleeping bag. These fit nicely together and allows me to pull a valise when leaving an ORV or RP or moving close to the Obj. Sometimes instead of two valises, I use a small pack (non -issued) and an valise instead. Either method works.

I'm curious. Do you have a bag attached to the frame, and carry two valises as well, or just strap the two valises to the frame, with no attached bag?

 

[Sully]

I'm curious. Do you have a bag attached to the frame, and carry two valises as well, or just strap the two valises to the frame, with no attached bag?

Standard 64 Pattern "Jump Ruck". A large bag attached the frame. I have long A7A straps capable of strapping two valises or a valise and a small pack (I use a Kifaru). To put this in perspective I have had my rucksack full, small pack full of serialized kit/batteries, valise full of sleeping gear/rats and water (and snivel kit - Puffy/Ranger blanket), and a 522 Radio (secured via a separate A7A to my frame). This is IMHO the best way to roll; the problem being you can load this ruck with so much kit that it is borderline ridiculous. I should also mention my frame has been reinforced. I have pictures of it loaded somewhere, I will see if I can dig one out.