New CADPAT...what's causing the availability delay?

[PuckChaser]

I look forward to poorly tailored cheap quality operational clothing available alongside my DEUs.

Peerless Garments already makes our CADPAT garbage, excited to see how wise it gets when they're a sub contractor not the prime contractor anymore after Logistik takes their cut.

 

[Kilted]

Peerless Garments already makes our CADPAT garbage, excited to see how wise it gets when they're a sub contractor not the prime contractor anymore after Logistik takes their cut.

Logisticorps isn't actually making it themselves right? They went beyond lowest bidder with the new balmorals, which my unit has completely rejected.

Also, they need to increase the annual points for killed regiments, all of our extra things cost a ridiculous number of points and kilts haven't even been put up yet.

 

[dangerboy]

Logisticorps isn't actually making it themselves right? They went beyond lowest bidder with the new balmorals, which my unit has completely rejected.

Also, they need to increase the annual points for killed regiments, all of our extra things cost a ridiculous number of points and kilts haven't even been put up yet.

For more info about the Operational Clothing & Footwear Consolidated Contract (OCFC2) go to https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public...6061/ABES.PROD.PW__PR.B756.E77636.EBSU000.PDF

It is separate from the non-operational clothing contract which is currently being used. I am not sure if it has been confirmed who was awarded the contract.

The MCS will provide end-to-end management of the DND supply chain for Operational Clothing and Footwear (OCF), from acquisition and/or manufacturing to inventory management to distribution.

It will include professional and design services as well as configuration management. The successful bidder will supply DND with a complete supply chain management approach that encompasses program management services, professional services, manufacturing, warehousing and inventory management, order processing and management, and distribution and delivery.

The MCS will also provide an online Order Management System (OMS) for use by Authorized Users who will order items for Direct Delivery to the address of their choice.

 

[Weinie]

Logisticorps isn't actually making it themselves right? They went beyond lowest bidder with the new balmorals, which my unit has completely rejected.

Also, they need to increase the annual points for killed regiments, all of our extra things cost a ridiculous number of points and kilts haven't even been put up yet.

Freudian slip, maybe.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Government of Canada policy on procurement of clothing enters the discussion...

CAF clothing is made in Canada (by the lowest cost, compliant bidders); you'd be hard pressed to acquire a complete wardrobe of civilian clothes all made in Canada.

Except boots, sports bras, menstrual undergarments; those you can purchase anywhere from any manufacturer because gasp Canada doesn't have a robust enough industry to provide quality items that would be cost effective....

If only there were 4789 international vendors that could supply garments and equipment in a Multicam derivative we could get cheaper and in greater supply from.....

Damn... using logic again...

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Except boots, sports bras, menstrual undergarments; those you can purchase anywhere from any manufacturer because gasp Canada doesn't have a robust enough industry to provide quality items that would be cost effective....

If only there were 4789 international vendors that could supply garments and equipment in a Multicam derivative we could get cheaper and in greater supply from.....

Damn... using logic again...

It's pretty bad when Red Army penal battalions have better kit than us

 

[dimsum]

It's pretty bad when Red Army penal battalions have better kit than us

Portyanki for everyone!

 

[dapaterson]

Logisticorps isn't actually making it themselves right? They went beyond lowest bidder with the new balmorals, which my unit has completely rejected.

Also, they need to increase the annual points for killed regiments, all of our extra things cost a ridiculous number of points and kilts haven't even been put up yet.

Maybe then we should scrap kilts, if they're that expensive and add no real operational benefit?

 

[dimsum]

Maybe then we should scrap kilts, if they're that expensive and add no real operational benefit?

 

[Blackadder1916]

Also, they need to increase the annual points for killed regiments, all of our extra things cost a ridiculous number of points and kilts haven't even been put up yet.

Don't they still follow QR&O 210.346, which deals with grants for the purpose of "purchasing and maintaining the kilt, the sporran, the hose and the balmoral"?

QR&O: Volume III - Chapter 210 Miscellaneous Entitlements and Grants - Canada.ca

Queen's Regulations and Orders - QR&O - Chapter 210 - Miscellaneous Entitlements and Grants

www.canada.ca

210.346 - GRANTS TO UNITS FOR THE PURCHASE AND MAINTENANCE OF KILTED ORDERS OF DRESS - RESERVE FORCE
(1) Subject to paragraph (2) of this article, grants for the purpose of providing and maintaining selected items of clothing, as prescribed in paragraph (3) of this article, for wear with kilted orders of dress for officers and non-commissioned members of the Reserve Force, may be paid to the commanding officer of a Reserve Force unit authorized to wear kilted orders of dress:

a. when a unit is established, for each member on the authorized strength, an initial purchase grant equal to 60 per cent of the combined cost of the prescribed items of clothing, but not exceeding $253;

b. when the authorized strength of an existing unit is increased, for each member brought on the added authorized strength, the initial purchase grant as prescribed in subparagraph (a) of this paragraph;

c. for each member on the strength of a unit, but not exceeding the authorized strength, an annual maintenance grant in the amount of $40; and

d. in accordance with any orders issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff.
(1 April 1984)

(2) Grants are not payable in respect of units for which kilted orders of dress are otherwise provided and maintained at public expense.

(3) Grants shall be paid for the purpose of purchasing and maintaining the kilt, the sporran, the hose and the balmoral.

(G) [P.C. 1984-3150 effective 1 April 1984]

 

[daftandbarmy]

Maybe then we should scrap kilts, if they're that expensive and add no real operational benefit?

They ensure a higher ratio of white folks per unit in the Infantry, which seems to be important if you want to be promoted to higher ranks (in the Militia).

 

[MJP]

For more info about the Operational Clothing & Footwear Consolidated Contract (OCFC2) go to https://buyandsell.gc.ca/cds/public...6061/ABES.PROD.PW__PR.B756.E77636.EBSU000.PDF

It is separate from the non-operational clothing contract which is currently being used. I am not sure if it has been confirmed who was awarded the contract.

It is a good point...I am assuming that LU will be the winner but ya never know

 

[PuckChaser]

Logisticorps isn't actually making it themselves right?

I don't know if they actually make the DEU items, but nothing in our system stops someone from winning a bid, and sub (or sub-sub) contracting out the actual items. Every sub contractor wants their cut, so when you start hiving off 20% profit on lowest bids, you get some pretty garbage Chinese sweat-shop quality.

Ever wondered why the food in Meaford was so terrible (or at least it was when I was training there in mid 2010s)? CBO has contract, subbed out to another company which subbed out to another. The $15 per person for a lunch quickly turned into $5 (not exact numbers) so every haybox at lunch was footlong hotdogs with comically small buns and 3 suppers a week were frozen veal.

 

[KevinB]

If we assume 50k, Reg and Res, would be entitled to new clothing, and a cost of $1500 per person to outfit them, plus half again as much for the supply system to have on hand, that's $112.5M in O&M you need to find. And I suspect that number is low.

I'm assuming that once in service the current national procurement budget will be sufficient, otherwise there's an incremental annual O&M pressure on the NP budget as well.

What is included in that $1,500?
Because one could get 3 sets of Crye Combat Gear, a JPC, and a rucksack for that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I don't know if they actually make the DEU items, but nothing in our system stops someone from winning a bid, and sub (or sub-sub) contracting out the actual items. Every sub contractor wants their cut, so when you start hiving off 20% profit on lowest bids, you get some pretty garbage Chinese sweat-shop quality.

Ever wondered why the food in Meaford was so terrible (or at least it was when I was training there in mid 2010s)? CBO has contract, subbed out to another company which subbed out to another. The $15 per person for a lunch quickly turned into $5 (not exact numbers) so every haybox at lunch was footlong hotdogs with comically small buns and 3 suppers a week were frozen veal.

And of course the senior Officers ate with the troops in the field, noted the deficiencies, and corrected the issues. Right?

 

[dapaterson]

What is included in that $1,500?
Because one could get 3 sets of Crye Combat Gear, a JPC, and a rucksack for that.

Three sets, shirts and pants - $75 per piece, or $450 total.

Rain gear, top and bottom, $300.

Medium weight jacket, $250.

Parka and bib overalls, $500.

No ruck, small pack or helmet cam.

Those are off the top of my head estimates, and probably in the low side.

(Costs in DRMIS are stupid, with variable costs depending on sizing).

 

[MJP]

(Costs in DRMIS are stupid, with variable costs depending on sizing).

Depends which cost you are looking at but the standard cost (can't recall the exact field name right now) we use is the procurement cost which is generally pulled directly from the purchase order. There is some other weirdness but ADM Fin is pretty strict on how costs are tabulated and entered into the system

 

[dapaterson]

Precisely - ADM Fin determines the stupid costs. Why a pair of 32" pants in the system of record costs more than a pair of 34" pants is not logical.

 

[Kirkhill]

You know. There was something to be said for the old Olive Drab and Khaki uniforms after all. The colours didn't run. And fashion trended slowly.

 

[IRepoCans]

You know. There was something to be said for the old Olive Drab and Khaki uniforms after all. The colours didn't run. And fashion trended slowly.

Something to be said about glowing under Gen 3 I2 and FLIR.