My take on Harper....

[PeptoBismarck]

You can only lead where the crowd is willing to follow.  Step one is to get the crowd to trust you enough to let you lead it.  That means getting the crowd to accept that you are essentially one of them.

It seems to me (but don't take my opinion TOO seriously, as it is baseless and ignorant ala Blackshirt) that this is the fundamental flaw in democracy as outlined by Socrates and many others after him. Don't get me wrong, it's the best system we got, but let's face it, chances are the people in the crowd don't know what's best for them. This seems clear especially in many European nations where the people have almost literally voted themselves into the gutter (btw, kudos I guess to France for electing Sarkozy). France is my example, where the social programs are so ridiculous they aren't even sustainable (i.e. 34 hour work week, welfare higher than minimum wage, etc.). I mean, sounds good for the John Doe on the street, but it's just not economically feasible. A more (ideologically) American system would entail small Federal Government to ensure that social programs are kept to a minimum. Since taxes would be very low, this would provide people better services (school, medical, et al). But, hey, I'm just some stupid white guy right? What do I know?  :blotto:

 

[Flip]

E.R.!

You've quoted our King Ralph! ( He has been quoted by so many )  :blotto:

The liberal spin machine is still a potent force.
If the soviets had this bunch in charge of PR they would still be in business.  ;D

Seriously, Harper's' mob has to get mature really fast - the learning curve is steep.
For the most part Canada is pretty much on the right track - In spite of the left

To reiterate or redirect a little.
I have a little confession.

Before 9-11 I was almost as anti-American as most everyone else.
Not against Americans - just their corporations and government.

On that rather stark Tuesday morning I realized two things.

1. We had replaced the cold war with something far different - we had active,
not theoretical enemies.

2. The proverbial excrement was about to hit the fan, this was worse than
Pearl Harbour after all. and we all know how that turned out for the other team.
We also know how America reinvented Japan after the war. - That turned out well.

All that said, I grieve that Canadians by and large don't see it my way.
They accuse Harper and the US of preposterous things.
Canadians actually foster the illusion that the whole world is our friend.

Our PM is representing Canadians almost as well as can be expected under the
current political circumstances.  He just need to collect credit for it.

Under liberal governments we were living in fools paradise.
With no idea how to pay for it.

Our government needs to educate us about the very real dangers
of going "left".

I hope this doesn't go too far off track.

 

[PeptoBismarck]

Flip, you said it. +1

 

[Brad Sallows]

I'm not convinced the CPC bench is that much thinner than the other benches when it comes to the skills required to actually conduct the business of the country.  However, it clearly isn't up to the same level of skill at playing the political <u>game</u> as the LPC.  The latter - which has reached a crescendo of frenzied denunciations and tut-tutting lately - may be entertaining and may be the source of paycheques for most of the people playing it, but doesn't actually advance the interests of the nation.

 

[Reccesoldier]

I'm not convinced the CPC bench is that much thinner than the other benches when it comes to the skills required to actually conduct the business of the country.  However, it clearly isn't up to the same level of skill at playing the political <u>game</u> as the LPC.  The latter - which has reached a crescendo of frenzied denunciations and tut-tutting lately - may be entertaining and may be the source of paycheques for most of the people playing it, but doesn't actually advance the interests of the nation.

Agreed, the problem is that for the vast majority of people in Canada do not see the difference between playing the game and governing a nation.  Sheeple that are convinced that the modern question period with TV cameras and politicians grandstanding for them accomplishes anything outnumber 100:1 those that watch the senate and parliamentary committees on CPAC to actually see what the real work on parliament hill looks like.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

I think he's doing a great job personally....the MND on the other hand is a bit of a light weight....I'd like to see a Cabinet shuffle after this detainee thing dies down...I don't think O'Connor handled it very well personally.

 

[Operationblack]

Stephen Harper is doing a better job than I ever thought he would. I am glad to see a right leaning party take strong stance on the environment and working on alternative methods than the Kyoto protocol.

 

[Hunteroffortune]

Stephen Harper is doing a better job than I ever thought he would. I am glad to see a right leaning party take strong stance on the environment and working on alternative methods than the Kyoto protocol.

I agree, Kyoto is designed to suck money out of western nations to give our children's money to China or Russia, without reducing pollution, remember, money leaving Canada, can not be spent in Canada. Now, why do the environmentalists support this scheme? Why are they so shrill about supporting the unsupportable? Follow the money. If Susuki were still a fruit fly scientist, would he be getting any government funds? Not likely, so, it's all about money, shame on the scientists for selling out for money.

Do I like that the Conservatives are paying lip service to Kyoto, NO, do I understand why they have to, YES.

Why doesn't the left realize that every dollar spent on Kyoto and global warming, is one dollar less to help our elderly and disabled. Or do they understand that and just don't care?

 

[Flip]

Why doesn't the left realize that every dollar spent on Kyoto and global warming, is one dollar less to help our elderly and disabled. Or do they understand that and just don't care?

Both.

Because to the true believer, there is only one cause.
Global warming is a religion. - one without a God.
Many would be perfectly happy to "sacrifice" someone else for their new cult.

There is no point in fighting this directly, Harper should only fight the
battles he can win.  Tsun Tsu comes to mind....

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I think he's doing a great job personally....the MND on the other hand is a bit of a light weight....I'd like to see a Cabinet shuffle after this detainee thing dies down...I don't think O'Connor handled it very well personally.

He is not a great politican, but has done more in his stint as a MND than any Liberal.

 

[tdwebste]

Hunteroffortune, Flip

You may not like it, but Global warming is undeniable.
Addressing Global Warming is addressing reality.

Denial is never healthy. Please feel free to support Harper,
but your take on religion and global warming is deeply troubling.

 

[Flip]

but your take on religion and global warming is deeply troubling.

A few weeks ago the Ontario environment minister announced
no scrubbers would be placed on existing coal fired power plants.

This choice was made because the scrubbers would not reduce CO2
emissions. The plants will continue to operate.

As they operate they WILL cause acid rain smog and pollution.
They WILL cause deaths and disease among the Ontario population.

I find this troubling.
And on religion....... Don't doubt for an instant that I practise and keep my faith.

My point is this;

Perfectly legitimate environmentalism and stewardship is being pushed aside.
I have no doubt people will die for the sake of a theory which cannot be proven.

I,m rather severly off track here.....
I put another post on the Kyoto thread to support this.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32987.585.html

I think Harpers' the real deal. ( or as close as we'll get in this cynical time.) 

 

[GAP]

To add fuel to the fire, here's a Decima Research poll about some of the voting patterns....interesting

Interesting trends emerging in weekly polls
Updated Sun. May. 13 2007 4:12 PM ET Bruce Anderson, Canadian Press
Article Link

OTTAWA -- Anyone watching polls lately might be forgiven for their frustration at the range and unpredictability of the swings from week to week.  But beneath the surface of weekly who-might-you-vote-for polls, some fascinating trends are taking shape.

Canadian voters have loosened the attachments that anchored them to traditional party choices. They're now being propelled by currents that confound those who prefer simple, clear signals from polls.

Here are a few things we at Decima see, that are worth thinking about:

First, more than half think Canada's heading in the right direction, but no more than a third say they would vote Conservative tomorrow. That gap reveals a lack of enthusiasm with the current government.  But on Election Day 2006, 65 per cent voted against the Conservatives. Today 70 per cent would. That is not what the Conservatives were hoping for, but nor is it a surging rejection.

Secondly, when Canadians voted the Liberals out of office, one big reason was the angry mood of Quebecers.  Since then, there's been a massive 18-point increase in the number of Quebecers who feel Canada is heading in the right direction. That is chewing away at the idea of sovereignty and the parties championing independence.  Hard-core "separatists'' now number less than one in five voters. Most Quebecers are neither dogmatic federalists nor separatists and competition for these voters is flourishing.

There has been another important change from the last two elections. Many voters over that period were preoccupied with avoiding a Liberal win, and almost as many were determined to avoid a Conservative victory. Fear of the worst was more potent than desire for the best. Not any more.
More on link

 

[George Wallace]

Hunteroffortune, Flip

You may not like it, but Global warming is undeniable.
Addressing Global Warming is addressing reality.

Denial is never healthy. Please feel free to support Harper,
but your take on religion and global warming is deeply troubling.

So, tdwebste, Global Warming on Mars, as detected by NASA scientists, is also undeniable and our fault?  It is a natural and cyclic thing, that is not Earth related, but Cosmos related.  Man has little to no affect on what happens in the Cosmos.

 

[Reccesoldier]

Hunteroffortune, Flip

You may not like it, but Global warming is undeniable.
Addressing Global Warming is addressing reality.

Denial is never healthy. Please feel free to support Harper,
but your take on religion and global warming is deeply troubling.

The precise moment that global warming became a "Moral Question", not a scientific one is when the true denial began.

Any scientific question that will not accept, allow or condone the application of the scientific method because "proof" has been replaced by "morality" ceases by definition to be scientific.  Global warming has become one such question and its proponents have entered the realm of snake-oil salesmen and charlatans.

 

[Flip]

Gap,

Thanks for the redirect.
I think your poll results are the result of what I would call "system noise".

The more opposition parties there are - more noise.
The government is distracted - so are the people.

The Tories need a "damn the torpedoes" issue that they can sell.

Something like an Animal rights bill that confers protection
to pets.( our current law is very very old )

No one would oppose, Everyone would see leadership.
The government lives to fight another day.

As things are, Parliament is mired in rhetoric and noise.

Just a thought..............

 

[Operationblack]

So, tdwebste, Global Warming on Mars, as detected by NASA scientists, is also undeniable and our fault?  It is a natural and cyclic thing, that is not Earth related, but Cosmos related.  Man has little to no affect on what happens in the Cosmos.

Fortunately we do not live on mars. But I do not deny that we do not know 100% that we are the cause of global warming. But in the same way you can say we do not know 100% the cause of gravity. The fact the earth is warming up at record rates and causing massive shifts in the global environment is not disputable. It is occurring and it is having dramatic effects on the earth and if it continues at this rate the effects will only become more devastating.

Sure, there is a chance that it is being cause by some force we have no control over. Maybe something beyond our control occurred and it is the result of the massive (and unprecedented) climate change. But just because there is a “chance” we are not at fault does not mean that we should ignore our part in it and just hope it will fix itself. As much as we can hope it is a natural occurance that will fix itself, we have to realize the fact that it is more and more appearing each day that it is not a natural occurance and is being caused by  humans globally. Thus the world governments should not just deny global warming, but embrace it and work to effectively lower our impact on the earth.

Even if It turns out in 200 years we weren’t to blame for global warming, governments changing our relationship with the environment and bringing higher green standards will have made the world a better place anyway.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Hunteroffortune, Flip

You may not like it, but Global warming is undeniable.
Addressing Global Warming is addressing reality.

Denial is never healthy. Please feel free to support Harper,
but your take on religion and global warming is deeply troubling.

Manmade global warming is a giant scam.  Please see the Global Warming mega-thread (I believe it's in the politics board) on the issue if you wish to debate this topic specifically, but bring your science book because lacking scientific support, your comments won't carry much weight.


Matthew.   

 

[Kirkhill]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32987.0.html

Here's the link Matt.  - 40 pages and counting with some current additions.

And there is this one as well - although perhaps it should now be merged with the Megathread.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/60662.0.html

Chris.

 

[tdwebste]

To me your first comment read like this.
Religion:
I don\'t need facts to back up my beliefs because I have faith. Around 1100AD in Islamic world there was a struggle between philosophy and theology. Theology won and the Islam world has not advanced much since than. I am a Christian, however I don\'t feel bible is about science. Evolution is NOT a religious issue. How we walk our life is.

Bring your science text book:
Global warming is widely recognised as an observable event caused in part by the activities of man. The question is what will the effects as the planet seeks a new stability condition. The CIA recommends the effects of climate change should be studied as they effect the safety of the US. Global warming is accepted as the theory that fits the observed data.
Scientist are best prepared to model climate change and select which model of climate change best fits the observed data. Some climate change models will be invalidated in the process, but this does not change the climate change observed data. How many links do you want? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_of_recent_climate_change
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
Solar variation: Two researchers at Duke University have estimated that the Sun may have contributed about 40–50% of the global surface temperature warming over the period 1900–2000, and about 25–35% between 1980 and 2000.[21]  The general oppinion is the solar variation is has contributed as significant smaller portion.
Economist are best prepared to create economical incentives to reduce the activities of man accelerating climate change. Economist have many ideas, Kyoto is too indirect, but it saves them from even more controversial polices which more directly effect automobile/land usage.

The fact that some of the climate changes is due to solar cycles does not invalidate that a great potion is also caused by mans activities. More importantly how should we prepare for the rapid climate change?

Not doing anything to reduce man\'s contribution to climate change and taking no steps to prepare for change. Its like not buying a fire extinguisher, taking no steps to prevent fire. And not buying fire insurance, taking no steps to protect your livelihood.