"MP's or Provost - An Idea on Roles" and "Replace base MP with RCMP"

[17thRecceSgt]

I could be wrong... but don't MPs out of the Academy have "Peace Officer" status?

I know here in Halifax, they partake in op's like when the HRM police and RCMP do spot-checks on the bridges for MV infractions...cause it was in the local news.

MPs correct me if I am wrong...

Mud

 

[Shamrock]

Though I'm not an MP, I'll try to confirm Mud Recce Man's Peace Officer status

Criminal Code of Canada, Section 2, Definitions:
     “peace officer” includes
          ( g) officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces who are
               (i) appointed for the purposes of section 156 of the National Defence Act, or
               (ii) employed on duties that the Governor in Council, in regulations made under the National Defence Act for the purposes of this paragraph, has prescribed to be of such a kind as to necessitate that the officers and non-commissioned members performing them have the powers of peace officers.

National Defence Act
            PART III: CODE OF SERVICE DISCIPLINE
               DIVISION 3: ARREST AND PRE-TRIAL CUSTODY
                  Authority to Arrest
Powers of military police
156. Officers and non-commissioned members who are appointed as military police under regulations for the purposes of this section may

(a) detain or arrest without a warrant any person who is subject to the Code of Service Discipline, regardless of the person’s rank or status, who has committed, is found committing, is believed on reasonable grounds to be about to commit or to have committed a service offence or who is charged with having committed a service offence; and

(b) exercise such other powers for carrying out the Code of Service Discipline as are prescribed in regulations made by the Governor in Council.

R.S., 1985, c. N-5, s. 156; R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), ss. 49, 60; 1998, c. 35, s. 41.



As Peace Officers, they have authority under Criminal Code of Canada Section 495
Criminal Code
            PART XVI: COMPELLING APPEARANCE OF ACCUSED BEFORE A JUSTICE AND INTERIM RELEASE
               Arrest without Warrant and Release from Custody
Arrest without warrant by peace officer
495. (1) A peace officer may arrest without warrant

(a) a person who has committed an indictable offence or who, on reasonable grounds, he believes has committed or is about to commit an indictable offence;

(b) a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence; or

(c) a person in respect of whom he has reasonable grounds to believe that a warrant of arrest or committal, in any form set out in Part XXVIII in relation thereto, is in force within the territorial jurisdiction in which the person is found.

Limitation
(2) A peace officer shall not arrest a person without warrant for

(a) an indictable offence mentioned in section 553,

(b) an offence for which the person may be prosecuted by indictment or for which he is punishable on summary conviction, or

(c) an offence punishable on summary conviction,

in any case where

(d) he believes on reasonable grounds that the public interest, having regard to all the circumstances including the need to

(i) establish the identity of the person,

(ii) secure or preserve evidence of or relating to the offence, or

(iii) prevent the continuation or repetition of the offence or the commission of another offence,

may be satisfied without so arresting the person, and

(e) he has no reasonable grounds to believe that, if he does not so arrest the person, the person will fail to attend court in order to be dealt with according to law.

Consequences of arrest without warrant
(3) Notwithstanding subsection (2), a peace officer acting under subsection (1) is deemed to be acting lawfully and in the execution of his duty for the purposes of

(a) any proceedings under this or any other Act of Parliament; and

(b) any other proceedings, unless in any such proceedings it is alleged and established by the person making the allegation that the peace officer did not comply with the requirements of subsection (2).

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 495; R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 75.

 

[Shamrock]

It's legalese for "Yes, MP's are peace officers." There's more, such as the MP's right to ticket your sorry speeding ass, etc. but I think you get the idea.

 

[paperworkletdown]

I have look pretty much everywhere to find the answer to this. Does the military police patrol and respond to calls at the PMQs. Not sure but i heard that at some bases they do and some not, anyone know the answer.?

 

[FastEddy]

I have look pretty much everywhere to find the answer to this. Does the military police patrol and respond to calls at the PMQs. Not sure but i heard that at some bases they do and some not, anyone know the answer.?

During the 5o's in Germany  & Borden the later also which had a RCMP presence we did, and that was quiet interesting to say the least.

But with the present day Reg's, who can't, who should, only Regular, no Reserve etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, and the way the Branch seems to be Ham Strung at every turn, your guess is as good as mine. Only current MP Personnel can effectively answere that.

Cheers.

 

[RHC_2_MP]

Well, it depends on the base really, from coast to coast certian bases have given up thier Q's to civilian police forces completely, other bases will police certian patches and turn over jurisdiction in others.  I have heard that Gagetown's PMQs are all in the RCMP jurisdiction now because of a contract the CF signed while they were doing the big downsizing a while back and the RCs won't return them.  Also Winnipeg MPs don't have any PMQs in their juisdiction, i don't beleive.  For certian i know, Borden, Esquimalt, Edmonton, Wainwright, Kingston, Trenton do for sure.  Hope that helps. 

 

[navymich]

This question was brought up at a recent meeting at CFB North Bay where they are trying to implement a Neighbourhood Watch program.  There were reps from both the MPs and the local police.  The Q's here fall under the MPs but the roads around the Q's are local police.  However, everyone was told that if something happened and you weren't sure who to call, just to call one or the other and it would be passed over correctly.

 

[Franko]

In Pet the MPs have jurisdiction....they're just never around when guys are racing, fighting in the streets.

They do the odd patrol, but it's never a 24/7 presence. They do respond to domestic disturbances in the PMQs.

Regards

 

[navymich]

I really noticed a difference after moving from Esquimalt.  In Belmont Park, there seemed to always be an MP patrolling.  Speeders/racers/annoying teens were at a bare minimum, and any situation that did occur was resolved quickly.  Here in the Bay, I do see MPs around, but it seems much like RBD said above, odd patrol and not 24/7 presence.  The speeders are the worse, especially down the "main" street of the Q's which is also another route off the base.

 

[PMedMoe]

In Pet the MPs have jurisdiction....they're just never around when guys are racing, fighting in the streets.

They do the odd patrol, but it's never a 24/7 presence.

One time, when I was living in Pet, I drove to Chalk River to Ryan's camp ground.  An MP car followed me the whole way.  Wonder if they have any jurisdiction out there?
I just thought that it was no wonder you didn't see them on base if they were driving that far for nothing.  Maybe they were just putting some "highway miles" on the vehicle.  :

 

[missing1]

One time, when I was living in Pet, I drove to Chalk River to Ryan's camp ground.  An MP car followed me the whole way.  Wonder if they have any jurisdiction out there?
I just thought that it was no wonder you didn't see them on base if they were driving that far for nothing.  Maybe they were just putting some "highway miles" on the vehicle.  :

Did you ever pause to think he had little or no interest in you but had to see or do something in Chalk River.

 

[PMedMoe]

I didn't mean to infer that he was following me in particular and if he had something to do in Chalk, I don't know.  I just know that at a point past town, he pulled a U-turn and headed back in the other direction.

 

[garb811]

This question is a little complicated:

If the PMQs are built on a DND establishment, the MPs are the sole authority.

If the PMQs are leased or built on land which is leased, the roads are the jurisdiction of the civilian police while the leased land and PMQ proper are the jurisdiction of the MPs.

If a road running through the base is designated as a Provincial Highway then the jurisdicion is with the civilian police.

Local MPs and Base Commanders do not have the authourity to enter into any agreements to either waive or assume jurisdiction, this has to happen at the National level, a former Grn MPO in Gagetown learned that the hard way not too long ago.  What happened in some places, such as Gagetown, Edmonton, Suffield etc, was that local agreements that had been in place for years were voided upon review by NDHQ and MPs ceased patrolling areas they never officially had jurisdiction of in the first place.  My understanding is at least some of these are being re-negotiated but it is a long, slow process.

For those who are unsatisfied about the coverage you are receiving in your PMQs where the MPs are the ones who should be patrolling there, contact the Guardhouse and ask to speak to the NCO ic Pol Ops and let them know.  They should either sort it out or let you know what the problem is.  I'll admit, it seems kind of strange that the young MPs aren't all over issues such as that, since it's the "cop stuff" most joined to do...

Edit:  Grammar

 

[QV]

Short manning and a high op tempo plague most MP dets. 

 

[dapaterson]

Here's my unpopular 2 cents:

Strip them MPs of their credentials.  Hire the RCMP to police the PMQ patch.  Restore the M in the MP to its proper prominence.

And replace the NIS with an RCMP det that's fully outside the CF chain of command.

Oh, and lose the black "wanna be OPP" uniform, while we're at it...

 

[Good2Golf]

Here's my unpopular 2 cents:

Strip them MPs of their credentials.  Hire the RCMP to police the PMQ patch.  Restore the M in the MP to its proper prominence.

And replace the NIS with an RCMP det that's fully outside the CF chain of command.

Oh, and lose the black "wanna be OPP" uniform, while we're at it...

dapaterson, if you have points to make about what you think of current MP status / role validity, perhaps a less antagonistic tone would be a better tact...that or at the very least, back up your statements with reasoned arguments.  Anything less is coming across as trolling.

Thanks in advance for your co-operation.

The Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Lumber]

I don't think I can make sense of or agree with  all the legal intricacies, so I'm going to tackle the logistical ones. From the two bases I've had the time to get to know, at least a litte, (CFB Kingston and Borden), I've noticed that the bases, and more so the PMQ "patches", are someone out of the way from the local town. Now, if I remember correctly, Borden's PMQ's were like a closed in survey, connected internally to the base, so I'm assuming the MPs would have full jurisdiction there, right? Well in Kingston, the PMQs are actually just off base (atleast I think its 'off' base), built right next to a highway and roads that enter and exit off that highway. Even if the land is still actually DND land, the roads definitely seem to be local gov. owned (again, correct me here). Further, CFB Kingston is well segregated from most of the rest of Kingston, with only a single two lane highway connecting CFB Kingston and RMC to Kingston major. If the roads around the PMQs are suppose to be the jurisdiction of the local gov. (and lets assume for the moment they are), then wouldn't it be easier to just hand over jurisdiction to the MPs, who with their closer proximity could more readily provide patrols, security, responses and whatever else it is that police do? Why all the fuss about who's got what jurisdiction. Aren't MPs and local police all just trying to "serve and protect"?

 

[navymich]

Why all the fuss about who's got what jurisdiction. Aren't MPs and local police all just trying to "serve and protect"?

If I understand the situation in North Bay correctly (MPs/Q's and local/roads etc), it started out with road maintenance (ie. snow removal etc).  In the city taking over that aspect, they then took over the whole jurisdiction of the roadways themselves including the maintenance of them.  CFB North Bay is a fair distance from city centre, almost a town on it's own, and that is why I suspect that you don't see many local police actively patrolling.  I don't know all of the details as to why the base doesn't take it back, or take care of it's own roads etc.  It could be because of funding or lack of personnel.  I know that many of the residents of the Q's would like to see it given back over to the base.

 

[FastEddy]

In Pet the MPs have jurisdiction....they're just never around when guys are racing, fighting in the streets.

They do the odd patrol, but it's never a 24/7 presence. They do respond to domestic disturbances in the PMQs.

Regards

That's probally very true, however it doesent say very much for the Residents or Troops at Petawawa.

And as for the 24/7, believe me there can be some very, very good reasons for that !,

Cheers.

 

[Shamrock]

I don't think I can make sense of or agree with  all the legal intricacies, so I'm going to tackle the logistical ones. From the two bases I've had the time to get to know, at least a litte, (CFB Kingston and Borden), I've noticed that the bases, and more so the PMQ "patches", are someone out of the way from the local town. Now, if I remember correctly, Borden's PMQ's were like a closed in survey, connected internally to the base, so I'm assuming the MPs would have full jurisdiction there, right? Well in Kingston, the PMQs are actually just off base (atleast I think its 'off' base), built right next to a highway and roads that enter and exit off that highway. Even if the land is still actually DND land, the roads definitely seem to be local gov. owned (again, correct me here). Further, CFB Kingston is well segregated from most of the rest of Kingston, with only a single two lane highway connecting CFB Kingston and RMC to Kingston major. If the roads around the PMQs are suppose to be the jurisdiction of the local gov. (and lets assume for the moment they are), then wouldn't it be easier to just hand over jurisdiction to the MPs, who with their closer proximity could more readily provide patrols, security, responses and whatever else it is that police do? Why all the fuss about who's got what jurisdiction. Aren't MPs and local police all just trying to "serve and protect"?

That highway is frequently patrolled by KPF and OPP -- the city extends further east and north of the base.  The PMQ's are on base and MP's often have a visible presence there (read, parked up the hill from the Canex).  The road leading to Fort Henry is under Parks Canada jurisdiction; however, the MP's will use it as an alternate route to RMC.  Kingston MPs are also responsible for the armouries downtown, Fort Frontenac, and the Brockville armouries.