MLVW Replacment?
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The best replcement for the MLVW? Hmmmmm.....let me think........Ah yes......A new version of the MLVW!
The design is proven,no costly parts contracts or training reqd,no driver conversion needed and backwards compatibility with all existing SEV's.
The design of the vehical has'nt changed that much in 60 years for a reason.The fact that a 20 year old truck is still kicking and works just fine is a testament to the veh itself.
I'm sure everybody will argue with me,but why try to reinvent the wheel every 5 years or so?
Just like on another thread,replace the 9mm Browning HP with the modern version of the High Power,again for all the same reasons.
Now the LSVW on the other hand..........
The design is proven,no costly parts contracts or training reqd,no driver conversion needed and backwards compatibility with all existing SEV's.
The design of the vehical has'nt changed that much in 60 years for a reason.The fact that a 20 year old truck is still kicking and works just fine is a testament to the veh itself.
I'm sure everybody will argue with me,but why try to reinvent the wheel every 5 years or so?
Just like on another thread,replace the 9mm Browning HP with the modern version of the High Power,again for all the same reasons.
Now the LSVW on the other hand..........
Lance Wiebe
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The ML design has not been around for all that long.
It is underpowered, with an extremely poor suspension, poor turning radius, and zero comforts.
The Steyr family of vehicles is an example of what can be done, they have a smaller version of the HLVW that I drove once overseas, excellent vehicle. That would ease driver training, and some parts, I would think, having the HL and ML made by the same firm.
It is underpowered, with an extremely poor suspension, poor turning radius, and zero comforts.
The Steyr family of vehicles is an example of what can be done, they have a smaller version of the HLVW that I drove once overseas, excellent vehicle. That would ease driver training, and some parts, I would think, having the HL and ML made by the same firm.
Michael Dorosh
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Lance Wiebe said:
Yeah, but it has that really cool cruise control feature, plus the rocket-assist Ether injector....
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For starters,the veh itself has only been around for 20 or so years,but the design has been around since WW2 in one form or another(the deuce an a half,and the old 5 ton).
Second off-Why do we require a veh that can do 180 Km\h,has air glide suspension and a Cd player?The MLVW is a utillity truck.You don't need fancy features for a beat em up truck.A modern version of the ML would fit all the bills that we require.
Again the Styr line of veh is a good veh,but what it boils down to is you want something simple,and if that means Pte Bloggins has a sore bum after a few bumps and we still have to teach 3 point turns on the Driver wheeled course than thats what it takes to use an already proven design.Far to often Canada replaces veh or equipment with unproven designs and tries to work out the bugs after we've already accepted it.
As far as under powered,I would have to disagree.I served the guns for 9 years and if a veh can haul The SEV proper,a howitzer,44 rnds of 105 ammo,7 troops plus all of thier equipment,gun stores and still do 40-60 km offroad and not get stuck in all but the worst of terrain,I would have to say it's got enough power to do the job.Agreed about on highway preformance though.Nothing puts you to sleep like the hum of the V-8 desiel,wind and 40 km\h uphill.
cheers
Second off-Why do we require a veh that can do 180 Km\h,has air glide suspension and a Cd player?The MLVW is a utillity truck.You don't need fancy features for a beat em up truck.A modern version of the ML would fit all the bills that we require.
Again the Styr line of veh is a good veh,but what it boils down to is you want something simple,and if that means Pte Bloggins has a sore bum after a few bumps and we still have to teach 3 point turns on the Driver wheeled course than thats what it takes to use an already proven design.Far to often Canada replaces veh or equipment with unproven designs and tries to work out the bugs after we've already accepted it.
As far as under powered,I would have to disagree.I served the guns for 9 years and if a veh can haul The SEV proper,a howitzer,44 rnds of 105 ammo,7 troops plus all of thier equipment,gun stores and still do 40-60 km offroad and not get stuck in all but the worst of terrain,I would have to say it's got enough power to do the job.Agreed about on highway preformance though.Nothing puts you to sleep like the hum of the V-8 desiel,wind and 40 km\h uphill.
cheers
Michael Dorosh
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gun plumber said:
Add to that the 100 km straight-as-an-arrow road coming out of Wainwright on the way home to Calgary - I kid you not, not one single turn in the road for over an hour. YAWWWWNNNN
They COULD do something about the seats in the cab - though that nice long bench lets you put three up front unlike an LSVW.
Some kind of shock absorbing troop seats would be nice too.....or maybe even some damn seatbelts and weapons racks. Get an inexperienced driver up front and the potential to kill somebody, break their back or knock out their teeth isn't inconsiderable....
Lance Wiebe
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Check out this bad boy.
http://www.swiec.com/p1-7.htm
Those of you singing the praises of the POS MLVW obviously have had limited experience in what is available.
Beg to differ it is underpowered? Wow.
http://www.swiec.com/p1-7.htm
Those of you singing the praises of the POS MLVW obviously have had limited experience in what is available.
Beg to differ it is underpowered? Wow.
the MLVW Gun Tractor has padded troop seats and even seat belts. I forgot to mention the nice heater and lights in the back. Ahh the life of a Gunner. Yes replace them with a modern day 6x6 or 4x4 heavy duty truck such as the Yanks have, or build new MLVW's here in Candada.
Michael Dorosh
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CTD said:
So no carbon-monoxide piped directly into the troop compartment, ala the LSVW? Sweet.
I remember being in the back of an LS as my CSM drove off from a position and forgot I was there...nothing like lying flat on your back on a cold metal floor praying that you live through the experience of going cross country at speed; luckily I was the only one back there - couldn't imagine 10 or so C7s and helmets flying around under that tarp...
Mountie
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I would say go with the Steyr model just for the commonality of parts to simplify maintenance and logistics. However, if in a perfect world, there was funding to replace the HLVW series soon, I would go with either the MAN series that the British Army is purchasing right now, or the Stewart & Stevenson FMTV series. A common series of MLVW, HLVW and VHLVW is the key I think.
Lance Wiebe
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MAN now owns Steyr, and uses the Steyr military vehicles as the basis for both vehicles. For whatever reason, they are sold under at least three different names, MAN, Steyr and Pinzguaer. I sould suspect that the Steyr name will disappear.....
Matt_Fisher
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A likely candidate for the MLVW replacement will be the Stewart & Stevenson Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles 'FMTV' which are currently in use by the US Army and are being marketed to the British Army.
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/stewart_stevenson/
http://www.ssss.com/Home/Products/TacticalVehicles/FMTV/?pm=1601
I don't think that the Oshkosh FMTV will be considered that serously, as it is a 7 ton vehicle and the CFs will likely be tailoring the requirement around a 2.5/5 ton vehicle.
Another option for the MLVW would be to do a rebuild, similar to what the US Army has done with some of its old M-35 2.5/5 ton trucks.
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehmlvw.htm
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/stewart_stevenson/
http://www.ssss.com/Home/Products/TacticalVehicles/FMTV/?pm=1601
I don't think that the Oshkosh FMTV will be considered that serously, as it is a 7 ton vehicle and the CFs will likely be tailoring the requirement around a 2.5/5 ton vehicle.
Another option for the MLVW would be to do a rebuild, similar to what the US Army has done with some of its old M-35 2.5/5 ton trucks.
http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-vehmlvw.htm
Mountie
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The S&S FMTV was not chosen by the British. They chose the MAN ERF proposal instead. They are replacing their 4, 8 and 14 tonne Bedford and Leyland trucks with 6, 12 and 18 tonne MANs. There are many sites on this, the British Army's "Soldier Magazine" is one. Just search MoD MAN Military Trucks and you will get a bunch.
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Oh and by the way Steyr-Daimler-Puch is Mercedes, Mercedes is G-Wagen. Stewart & Stevenson builds the FMTV it also is the licenced producer of g-wagens for the USMC in the States.
Pinzgauer is now produced in the UK by a British company. Not sure about their ownership.
Pinzgauer is now produced in the UK by a British company. Not sure about their ownership.
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Since we will probably have to wait until at least 2008 or beyond, we should at least think about some more exotic options. Hybrid electric vehicles are already on the road, (Honda Civic and Toyota Prius today, Ford Explorer Hybrid in the near future, and many more) and offer several bonus's over an ordinary truck.
1. They have better fuel mileage, reducing logistics requirements.
2. Electric motors are quiet and offer high torque. This helps with field problems like not having enough torque to pull out of a deep rut, and might give the option of short "silent run-ups" to DP's, harbours and hides etc.
3. Electric motors in the wheel hubs provide much more interior room in the same sized vehicle.
4. The electric power supply of the vehicle can be tapped for sensors and communications equipment (no lash-ups like the MILCOTS).
5. The electric power supply can be accessed when the vehicle is stationary, reducing the need for generators etc.
While this isn't a magic bullet solution, there is no reason not to make plans. By the time a hybrid electric truck is ready to retire, fuel cell technology may be mature enough to be the prime mover for all vehicles. Our guys will have 15-20 years experience on electric vehicles by then, so the transition will be much smoother.
1. They have better fuel mileage, reducing logistics requirements.
2. Electric motors are quiet and offer high torque. This helps with field problems like not having enough torque to pull out of a deep rut, and might give the option of short "silent run-ups" to DP's, harbours and hides etc.
3. Electric motors in the wheel hubs provide much more interior room in the same sized vehicle.
4. The electric power supply of the vehicle can be tapped for sensors and communications equipment (no lash-ups like the MILCOTS).
5. The electric power supply can be accessed when the vehicle is stationary, reducing the need for generators etc.
While this isn't a magic bullet solution, there is no reason not to make plans. By the time a hybrid electric truck is ready to retire, fuel cell technology may be mature enough to be the prime mover for all vehicles. Our guys will have 15-20 years experience on electric vehicles by then, so the transition will be much smoother.
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a_majoor, your hybrid solution isn't incompatible with the S&S/FMTV/G-Wagen line. S&S is producing hybrid drive buses and has produced hybrid FMTVs that have been trialled by the US Army. Good Reviews
http://www.na.baesystems.com/releasesDetail.cfm?a=88
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/stewart_stevenson/
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1012
I am a BIG fan, especially for the Militia. Cross country capability PLUS a remote/mobile electricity generating facility could have great applications for civil emergencies. Just think how many electrical appliances that Home Depot and Canadian Tire stock that would be useful in the event of an emergency if only there was a power supply. Tools aren't in short supply in Canada but power might be.
http://www.na.baesystems.com/releasesDetail.cfm?a=88
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/vehicles/stewart_stevenson/
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1012
I am a BIG fan, especially for the Militia. Cross country capability PLUS a remote/mobile electricity generating facility could have great applications for civil emergencies. Just think how many electrical appliances that Home Depot and Canadian Tire stock that would be useful in the event of an emergency if only there was a power supply. Tools aren't in short supply in Canada but power might be.
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