MGL-140 / M32

[Arius]

Good Day.  I'm looking for some good input on the subject.

Pros and cons for this weapon type fielded at section level?
http://www.milkorusainc.com

Do you see tactical needs for 40mm rounds with increased range from 400m to 800m?
http://www.martin-electronics.com/Product%20Guide%20MEI-605%20(02-08).pdf

Discuss.  Cheers.

 

[McG]

Pros and cons for this weapon type fielded at section level?
http://www.milkorusainc.com

I'd be getting a higher rate of fire for 40 mm grenades onto target (at least for six shots at a time), but it would come at the expense of a rifle (can't see guys carrying this and a rifle).  I'm not sure I'd want to make that trade-off (especially if HLTA has already reduced the number of rifles that would be available to dismount).  I understand this weapon is in use with the USMC but not the US Army.  The USMC have a larger squad size than US Army Squads or Canadian Army sections and as a result they may be more ready to trade a rifle for a "grenade revolver."

Do you see tactical needs for 40mm rounds with increased range from 400m to 800m?
http://www.martin-electronics.com/Product%20Guide%20MEI-605%20(02-08).pdf

There will always be a day when you want to shoot a little farther.  How is accuracy affected by doubling the effective range?

 

[Armymedic]

Do you see tactical needs for 40mm rounds with increased range from 400m to 800m?
http://www.martin-electronics.com/Product%20Guide%20MEI-605%20(02-08).pdf

Yes. And when you do, there are AGLs like the Mk19 which will allow you to use optics and range finding equpment to ensure a first or second round hit.

 

[1feral1]

To utilise this weapon, you would have to carry both your rifle, and this. I don't think thats a good idea.

Best to employ the M203PI under the rifle. Depending how many M203's one has at his disposal, one can put down some HEDP quickly, and very accurately. I was suprised just how accurate one can be both with an M203, or M79. We used both systems in Iraq.

This MGL system of weapon may be good for use of CS/DS/DN agents, when a rapid fire of CS/DS/DN for riot control would be benificial in quick crowd dispursment.

One could also lay down some twisted fire using HEDP too.

My 2 cents.

 

[Fusaki]

I'd be getting a higher rate of fire for 40 mm grenades onto target (at least for six shots at a time), but it would come at the expense of a rifle (can't see guys carrying this and a rifle).  I'm not sure I'd want to make that trade-off (especially if HLTA has already reduced the number of rifles that would be available to dismount).  I understand this weapon is in use with the USMC but not the US Army.  The USMC have a larger squad size than US Army Squads or Canadian Army sections and as a result they may be more ready to trade a rifle for a "grenade revolver."

Maybe not at the section level, but how about the PL level? These days the PL weapons det carries C6s, Carl Gs, C3s, and a 60mm. While they might not all be employed at the time due to the number of pers in the weapons det, all these systems are tools in the box that PL Comds task their guys with depending on the situation. I can see this 40mm launcher filling a spot here, at a very little cost and with no re-organization of manpower.

I don't think we need these at the section level. M203s are better for that because they come attached to a rifle.  But in the PL these M32s could be placed in key locations: In the support group, breaching doors and putting rounds through windows or on an ambush, initiating with the C6. The possibilities are spectacular - literally. ;D

 

[COBRA-6]

I agree with Wonderbread, particularly if the 60mm is being withdrawn. This could help fill the gap in the dismounted/light role...

Just my $0.02 

 

[McG]

Do you see tactical needs for 40mm rounds with increased range from 400m to 800m?
http://www.martin-electronics.com/Product%20Guide%20MEI-605%20(02-08).pdf

Yes. And when you do, there are AGLs like the Mk19 which will allow you to use optics and range finding equipment to ensure a first or second round hit.

Actually, I think he was suggesting the medium velocity round (see pages 13 - 15) which would extend the range of the M203 or M32 to 800 m.  AGLs like the Mk 19 use high velocity rounds.

 

[Fusaki]

Upon further reflection...

The C3s arn't the ideal weapons system to be used en masse like a C9 or a C7/M203. But when employed within the PL and Coy weapons dets we found that they filled a niche. They were very handy at scratching those hard to reach places, or providing overwatch of patrols. We had them anyways, and the snipers wern't using them, so it was good that they were pushed down to the rifle coys. They were another tool in the box.

I see this weapons system in the same way. They're not as flexable as the weapons systems needed in rifle sections, but employed in the same manner you would a C6 I see real potential. How much would it cost? We already have 40mm bombs in the system - and they can't be that expensive. We would need a few more rounds and enough money to outfit 1 per platoon, plus spares. In the grand scheme of things, isn't that just a drop in the bucket? I don't know. This sort of stuff is out of my lane. It just doesn't seem to be a really big change in the way we already do business. The Americans seem to really like combining .50s and MK19s on their humveess. The weapons systems compliment each other well. I can see the the M32s complimenting the C6 in a similar way. Sort of like the diet version of a good combo - for dismounts.

 

[KevinB]

Better off the Hk AG/C or the shortened M320.

The Multibarrel GL replaces a rifleman -- The M203 or M320 systems are rifleman as well and can also be used stand alone with carbine/rifle equiped pers as well.

While the firepower is nice -- the loss of aimed small arms fire can be costly.

   

 

[Arius]

So,

General feeling is that MGL could be better used at platoon level in support role?  Probably easy to justify as a portable suppression weapon.

Med Velocity 40mm can be used in current M203 (Other underslung GL won't be considered for a while) so do we want a add-on (reflex/lase) sight to max out the capabilities of the MV round or typical engagement ranges don't justify more than a the flip-up sight?   

 

[KevinB]

I have played with the PSQ-15 for the M203 and was not impressed - the new setup for the M203 or M320 has a ranging laser as well - and some variants had a Dr Optic style mico red dot as a reflex -- like KAC's reflex quadrant.  While I think the reflex idea is great - the KAC quadrant is pricey (mind you most of the $ is the German made Dokter Optic micro red dot) and only good at LR if you have an excellent eye or a Vector laser handy to call out info.

 

[McG]

General feeling is that MGL could be better used at platoon level in support role? 

That really depends if there would be any required off-sets.  If it can be done without off-sets (and maybe the fact that ammunition is common with M203 makes this a possibility) then a couple per Pl can't hurt.  While you're at it, throw in a few for the Engr Tps.

 

[Shrek1985]

i heard that the american were getting alot of stress failures using their M203s with the 40x53mm rounds

 

[421 EME]

They would be having problems trying to fire 40 x 53mm High Velocity Grenades out of the M203 that was designed to only fire 40 x 46 mm Low Velocity Grenades.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Problems as in the weapon coming apart at a rapid rate of knots?

40x53 has 10 times the propellant of 40x46...

 

[Shrek1985]

Actually, I think he was suggesting the medium velocity round (see pages 13 - 15) which would extend the range of the M203 or M32 to 800 m.  AGLs like the Mk 19 use high velocity rounds.

messing up my nomencalture here. i should not have used high-velocity as i believe the 40x53mm is known as the medium-velocity grenade, though i could be mistaken and don;t have time to check on it myself right now

 

[McG]

I'd heard that high velocity grenades did not fit & medium velocity grenades were a tight fit into the M203 because it does not slide forward far enough to fit these larger rounds.  The ability to fit medium velocity is the reason that new designed under-slung grenade launchers rotate open.

 

[Shrek1985]

i really do not have enough info on this without going down to the library and thumbing copies of janes and i can;t find anything online right now, but i think and this is confusing due to how it is designated that there are only the two 40mm round families.

the 40x46mm NATO low velocity

and the 40x53mm NATO high velocity

i looked and i guess i was getting messed up by the mass proliferation of different GL ammo out there. there is no standard 40mm medium-velocity round, that is my mistake.

however the 40x53mm will chamber in an M203 (or M79 for that matter) because it is close to the dimensions of the longer paraflare rounds.

 

[George Wallace]

Shift keys come in handy.  I am sure many would not be as confused as you, if you could learn what it is for.

 

[KevinB]

You can fire HV 40 in a M203 - you need to work at it - but the GL will close -- that will also be the LAST round fired by that GL - it cannot handle the pressure, and the shooter and host weapon will not fair to well either...

  the HK M320 GL replacing the M203 in the US Army is a side opening GL - newer (specialty) ammuntion in the LV catagory is a little longer and does not well in a M203, as well as a lot of Less Lethal and Chemical rounds don't fit too.