Man killed by Winnipeg police was former Canadian Forces member: sources

[armyvern]

Greg Passey is a well-known and highly respected authority on PTSD.  I don't know if he's still serving or not.

When I knew him as Major Greg Passey, I didn't have a lot of time for him - but that doesn't take away from his acknowledged authority on the subject.

I'd agree with your sentiments here, especially given the fact that the suicide rate in the CF is quite lower than the general population of this nation -- I just don't see where he's coming from with that quote.

 

[George Wallace]

The problem is DND and the CF keep too many records and statistics.  What other organization in the country keeps comparable records and stats on their employees?

 

[Roy Harding]

The problem is DND and the CF keep too many records and statistics.  What other organization in the country keeps comparable records and stats on their employees?

Most LEAs.  For that matter, most Government (whatever level) departments.

 

[X-mo-1979]

I'd agree with your sentiments here, especially given the fact that the suicide rate in the CF is quite lower than the general population of this nation -- I just don't see where he's coming from with that quote.

Yes our rate is lower.However for PTSD and suicide our rates are considered higher.
I had the privilege of speaking with a man from OSIS a few weeks agn comparison our rates for both are lower. (not by much..Actual numbers I will get when I go back to work...however cant think of work right now  :crybaby
HOWEVER: when you factor in that we are people with steady jobs and most importantly in higher physical condition,our rates are then considered higher.

A side note,If you ever can get a OSIS brief for your troops DO IT.Excellent guy (Ross),real professional,and could speak to the troops from a troops perspective.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yes our rate is lower.However for PTSD and suicide our rates are considered higher.

Interesting, I was reading my unions Correctional newsletter this evening and found something that struck me as,...well, interesting.
http://www.opseu.org/ops/ministry/locktalk/locktalkdecember202007.htm

This lack of any forward planning and direction can no longer go unquestioned.

We have asked the employer to join with the union and look at the stress in our workplaces. The MERC has asked the employer to review a recent case study done in Saskatchewan that looked at Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in Correctional Workers. The study showed that 26 per cent of those in the study had PTSD compared to a normal population average of 3 per cent. This is higher than soldiers who return from combat. Why has this not been addressed?

We have problems in our workplaces that go beyond what the employer terms as “unacceptable” absenteeism. We have, year after year, been exposed to workplaces that are poisonous and making us sick.


Of course, this letter is the Union viewpoint but I would be interested in finding that report.

 

[armyvern]

Yes our rate is lower.However for PTSD and suicide our rates are considered higher.
I had the privilege of speaking with a man from OSIS a few weeks agn comparison our rates for both are lower. (not by much..Actual numbers I will get when I go back to work...however cant think of work right now  :crybaby
HOWEVER: when you factor in that we are people with steady jobs and most importantly in higher physical condition,our rates are then considered higher.

A side note,If you ever can get a OSIS brief for your troops DO IT.Excellent guy (Ross),real professional,and could speak to the troops from a troops perspective.

Of course our rate of persons with PTSD comitting suicide would be higher given our line of work and given that we suffer PTSD on a more frequent basis than the average Canadian. But, our overall rates also INCLUDE those with PTSD who commit this act. We're still seeing fewer CF members take their own lives on a whole than the general Canadian polpulation.

Maybe it's just me, but I figure that since we DO experience PTSD at a higher rate than the average Canadian, and see things up close and personal which they glimpse only a still pic of in their papers ....

We MUST be doing something right if our suicide rate is still smaller than theirs.

It still leaves to be answered though, just what was the good doctor referring to with his quote? That CF members are more apt to enter a situation where someone else kills them  (such as suicide by cop) than the average Canadian? Because that's how I took it ... and I'm wondering exactly where he's come up with those statistics from. I do note how he did not mention that our suicide rate is still much lower (and that rate includes those 3rd party suicides of which he speaks) than the general populations.

Statistics, damn statistics, and lies.

I'd rather you didn't post the rates ... I am aware of them already, having attended an update briefing last week.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Interesting, I was reading my unions Correctional newsletter this evening and found something that struck me as,...well, interesting.
http://www.opseu.org/ops/ministry/locktalk/locktalkdecember202007.htm

This lack of any forward planning and direction can no longer go unquestioned.

We have asked the employer to join with the union and look at the stress in our workplaces. The MERC has asked the employer to review a recent case study done in Saskatchewan that looked at Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in Correctional Workers. The study showed that 26 per cent of those in the study had PTSD compared to a normal population average of 3 per cent. This is higher than soldiers who return from combat. Why has this not been addressed?

We have problems in our workplaces that go beyond what the employer terms as “unacceptable” absenteeism. We have, year after year, been exposed to workplaces that are poisonous and making us sick.


Of course, this letter is the Union viewpoint but I would be interested in finding that report.

Interesting.
I would guess that the stats that OSIS used was the civilian population on a whole.Civilian being "those not military".I will try to track down the powerpoint once I get back to work.
Those stats are high though Bruce!
Also would have to consider the job implications in both cases as well I guess.

We MUST be doing something right if our suicide rate is still smaller than theirs.

According to our breif ours in not lower.Overall the number is lower,however where we are the pointy end of society our suicide rate is considered higher by mental health care professionals.At least thats what  igot out of the breif.

Statistics, damn statistics, and lies.

Here,here

 

[armyvern]

According to our breif ours in not lower.Overall the number is lower,however where we are the pointy end of society our suicide rate is considered higher by mental health care professionals.At least thats what  igot out of the breif.
Here,here

The CFs suicide rate is lower than the national average.

I think you may have missed something in the brief.

The suicide rate within the CF however, is higher at the pointy end.

Did you get the bit about the rate amongst blue op Peacekeepers?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Found it,

http://www.rpnas.com/public/pdfs/PTSDInCorrections.pdf

But methinks that reading 149 pages of this will not help me stay awake here all night.......
Day shift stuff.

 

[X-mo-1979]

The CFs suicide rate is lower than the national average.

I think you may have missed something in the brief.

The suicide rate within the CF however, is higher at the pointy end.

Did you get the bit about the rate amongst blue op Peacekeepers?

Our brief by OSIS showed the two stats for suicide cf/civilian side by side.The military percentage was lower.Now the gentleman teaching us said "now people look at this and say the army doesn't have a problem,their problem is much smaller compared to the civilian world.However when you factor in that the military are in much better physical condition,have a larger peer support group compared to civilians and GENERALLY are the Alpha males of society.This number is viewed now as 3.6 of the military population is higher than 6.4 of the general population.

So basically 3.6% of a extremely health segment of society is view higher than the 7% of a not so healthy group.

No they didn't get into different op's and stress/suicide rates.I have had this brief a few years back.

(numbers above just used to illustrate a point)

 

[Roy Harding]

Our brief by OSIS showed the two stats for suicide cf/civilian side by side.The military percentage was lower.Now the gentleman teaching us said "now people look at this and say the army doesn't have a problem,their problem is much smaller compared to the civilian world.However when you factor in that the military are in much better physical condition,have a larger peer support group compared to civilians and GENERALLY are the Alpha males of society.This number is viewed now as 3.6 of the military population is higher than 6.4 of the general population.

So basically 3.6% of a extremely health segment of society is view higher than the 7% of a not so healthy group.

No they didn't get into different op's and stress/suicide rates.I have had this brief a few years back.

(numbers above just used to illustrate a point)

That's interesting.

I'm chewing on it.

Thanks.

 

[armyvern]

Interesting indeed X-mo,

My briefing was also given by OSIS and by The Centre's Detachment here ... and nothing you said below was part of the brief given to the supervisors here last week. Nada.

I find it interesting that one would view a smaller percentage of the population (ie the CF) as "bigger" because of physical fitness, yet wouldn't factor in the higher stress factors and general "world and human ugliness" that we are subjected to at a higher level than those average citizens. Seems to be pretty mitigating to me.

Again, statistics, damn statistics, and lies. You can manipulate anything to have it show what you wish.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

and GENERALLY are the Alpha males of society.

...and if I remember correctly those are the most at risk for suicide......

 

[armyvern]

...and if I remember correctly those are the most at risk for suicide......

Exactly. Which is why I'm wondering why a lower rate amongst healthy alpha males would be used to essentially double our actual suicide rate ... you'd think that, realisticly, that would cut our already lower rate in half -- vice double it.

 

[X-mo-1979]

It was a really good brief.
And I think the reason I actually walked away from it with info was the man presenting it approached us as soldiers.Looked at us when he talked.Not some civilian PHD psych guy rifling through powerpoint to cover what was needed.
OSIS is something I was not aware of before the brief.I now know enough to find help for soldiers or their families,which I wouldn't have had a clue how to do prior to the brief.

Now on topic. ;D

I feel bad for the family who lost someone.
I hope the police who shot him find peace with it,and realise they were doing their jobs protecting the community.And I thank them for their service.
And no matter where this man became mentally ill,its too bad he didn't receive the help he needed.

 

[armyvern]

I'm sure we were talked to like soldiers too ... he was aware who he was presenting to, the cadpat on us all would have been a big hint, as was entering through the front gates of the base.

I am wondering though -- why our briefings would have differed. Especially given that the one here was to some select supervisors upon the return of a TF.

 

[X-mo-1979]

When was it?
mine was around the 15Th of December.It was only a hour long brief,covered what OSIS was and what it can do.The suicide thing was just one slide.And what made it interesting was the aside by the speaker.

Maybe the presenter presenting to you just looked at the stats as face value,it was given to us as an aside.

I think you may have misunderstood my comment on we were talked to like soldiers.
What I was referring to are those briefs where some civi with more qualifications than I have fingers and toes rambles on over the average soldiers comprehension.I classify these briefs as the "look towards the powerpoint screen and zone out until you only see the main colour scheme of the presentation."

I'm no phys analysis guy or anything so to argue the point for or against I really cannot.

Why you got a different brief who knows.Yours was for supervisors post deployment mine was for a general audience sgt and below prior to our deployment.

 

[armyvern]

When was it?
mine was around the 15Th of December.

Yours was on Saturday?

Mine was last week too.

PM in.

 

[X-army-cst]

I had to skip from page 3 to page 7 of this thread. Lot's of folks are asking..Why was the military thing brought up?? Because it is a public organization you fool. It always will be. If I fuck up somewhere, it will say RCMP member does this or that, not Joe Blow did this or that. Gee aren't you all old enough to know this??? It's not new and has been happening for ears. Geez get over it, you can't change it by whining about it. It's news because you are in a publicly funded org.
Oh well rant over.
Thank you to all those folks in uniform. I appreciate what you do and will think about those deployed on Christmas.
Have a good holiday everyone.

 

[Michael OLeary]

I had to skip from page 3 to page 7 of this thread. Lot's of folks are asking..Why was the military thing brought up?? Because it is a public organization you fool. It always will be. If I frig up somewhere, it will say RCMP member does this or that, not Joe Blow did this or that. Gee aren't you all old enough to know this??? It's not new and has been happening for ears. Geez get over it, you can't change it by whining about it. It's news because you are in a publicly funded org.
Oh well rant over.
Thank you to all those folks in uniform. I appreciate what you do and will think about those deployed on Christmas.
Have a good holiday everyone.

x-army-cst,

Welcome to milnet.ca.  You will find you time here more productive if you don't start off with wide sweeping insults towards the membership of the forum.

Milnet.ca Staff