Live fire training in Reserves

[noreaga808]

I've been monitoring this site for the last few months because I'm in the process of applying to the Infantry. This site has been extremely helpful in my efforts to become better informed of what the Army is all about. As a civilian and prospective member to the Canadian Forces I'd like to thank all of you enlisted members of the Canadian Army on behalf of all us wannabe's for providing an alternative source(army.ca) for information other then the recruiting centres. Enough of me kissing ass now.  
Anyhow, my question is how much live fire training is available to you as a member of the Reserves after initial training? Is it every month? Is it restricted only to the range or is it also combined with field exercises? I'm really not expecting much of the reserves due to time constraints and budget but as Riflemen you'd think that your primary skill would be regularly maintained. If need be I'd be willing to fork out money for the ammo to get adequate firearms training. You can spend days on end stripping them down becoming an expert at that but it doesn't make you any better at actually firing the thing. It definitely does help you out during a failure in the field. I'm asking because of two reasons. The first is because I'm hoping to get an experience from the Reserves as close as possible to the Reg Force to help me make the commitment. I know theres more to being an Infantryman but all that other info that I've been looking for has been covered. Second is because I have recently seen one of those Truth Duty Valour specials on Naval boarding Parties. After watching that episode I was disheartened due to seeing one of the guys with a shotgun during an exercise yell out "Bang Bang." I knew the Canadian Forces had budget problems but that really bothered me especially since it was broadcasted for the world to see. Is that a common practice, pretending to shoot the enemy during exercises? That was for Reg Force training, I can't imagine what Reserves get. Please tell me that isn't the case for both Reg Force and Reserves. Any input is greatly appreciated, thanks again.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Safety comes first, especially for a reserve unit that has one exercise a month.  Any life fire exercise is preceded by several weeks of "work up training"....soldiers learn to operate singly (on the rifle range), one weekend,  then in pairs on the next weekend on a special range,then in sections, platoons, and the culmination will be a company level live fire exercise....

 

[pbi]

Anyhow, my question is how much live fire training is available to you as a member of the Reserves after initial training? Is it every month? Is it restricted only to the range or is it also combined with field exercises?

Depends on arm of service (Infantry does more, Combat Service Support does less), the focus of training at the time, and the availability of ammunition. Some years its very good, some years its quite thin.

I'm really not expecting much of the reserves due to time constraints and budget but as Riflemen you'd think that your primary skill would be regularly maintained

Please don't sell the Army Reserve short: considering the huge obstacles they face (time being the most difficult) they can produce some very respectable soldiers and good quality training.

After watching that episode I was disheartened due to seeing one of the guys with a shotgun during an exercise yell out "Bang Bang." I knew the Canadian Forces had budget problems but that really bothered me especially since it was broadcasted for the world to see. Is that a common practice, pretending to shoot the enemy during exercises

I didn't see the special, but you should consider a few things before leaping to judgement:

-there may be no blank rounds for a shotgun, which means they cannot be fired in a dry exercise;

-the shotgun is extremely dangerous at close quarters (one of the reasons the Navy likes it for boarding parties....). Even on a live fire exercise it might not be safe to discharge it in some situations;

-the exercise might not have called for any ammunition, ball or blank: it may just have been a run through.

At any rate, our Navy has carved itself an international reputation for what they do: they are very skilled and effective boarders. Don't let a TV show mislead you. Be very wary of anything you see on TV, even on TDV. Cheers.

 

[dutchie]

When out in the field you use "Simmunition" don't you?   It's like a Paintball but it's made of rubber -- You can be shot with it, so you know when you've hit someone out in the field, but it won't kill you.

Not that I've ever seen. Some others may have more to say on this.

There are three types of 'ammo' used in the Reserves (In my experience):

1)- Ball (live ammo).
2)- Blank
3)- 'Militia Rounds' - slang for saying "Bang-Bang" when you 'fire' your weapon. The merits of this is detailed in pbi's post above.

My experience is that we use a fair amount on blank, use ball 1, 2, maybe 3 times a year, and 'militia rounds' during dry run-throughs/rehersals, either in the field or a parade/training night (thursday night).

 

[dano]

Do they still release the ballons in the air for target practice?
Different balloon colours meaning civvie , enemy, or friendly.

 

[dutchie]

Do they still release the ballons in the air for target practice?
Different balloon colours meaning civvie , enemy, or friendly.

What?!?!

I have never heard of this. Where did you get this from?

 

[dano]

The Militia did this in and around the 60s-70's...

I assume they don't do it anymore, in regards with you're reply...

 

[NavyGrunt]

When out in the field you use "Simmunition" don't you?   It's like a Paintball but it's made of rubber -- You can be shot with it, so you know when you've hit someone out in the field, but it won't kill you.

:

Simuntion is a reduced-energy, non-lethal and non-toxic cartridge that leaves a detergent-based, water-soluble color marking compound. It isnt rubber. And its very expensive. They may use it "sometimes" but Ive never seen it in the military. I have seen it and used it in civilian law enforcement however.

With my land exercises we used blanks and miles gear(laser tag on rifles). Thats pretty good as well for training.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Saying "BANG!" isn't going to teach you how to dodge fire

And YOU know this how?....this is your last warning, stop posting on things you know nothing about or you will be reading-only for awhile.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So you are insinuating that this Simmunition has all the same characteristics as say....sniper rifle,MG, etc.?
No matter....

 

[dutchie]

Not all exercises are focussed on whether you were hit or not. If you are doing a section attack, for instance, you might be practicing fire and movement, group, team, and section movement, command capabilities of the JNCOs, etc.

You don't need live rounds for that (or milies gear, or simunition).

I guess your common sense didn't tell you that, eh Armyboi? Of course, you wouldn't know a thing about this, so I wonder how you could possibly have an opnion?

I'll tell you again: you have two ears and one mouth. Therefore, you should listen twice as much as you talk.

 

[RCA]

Armybio, please don't display your ignorance on a subject you obversely know little to nothing about. If you don't have anything intelligent to say, silence would be considered a viable option. Take it.

You come across as a snot nosed little kid who likes the sound of his own voice. Advise - your voice is just making irritating noises instead of contributing anything of consequence.

If you don't like the advise, don't tell me "You're giving me a hard time for no reason " because I would I am not wasting my time for no reason. Find your hole and stay in it.

 

[muskrat89]

I'm using common sense... If I yell "BANG!" you don't know if the shot would have hit me...

You don't think that with all of the quadzillion years of experience on this board, we wouldn't have realized that ourselves????

Maybe your common sense is flawed  :

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Of course "Common Sense" is that well known commodity that we, personally, have too much of, but no one else has near enough of.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Very true, Recceguy, and my common sense wishes to get this one back on topic, armyboi will hopefully take some time to read for a week and have some positive things to say later.
Anyone else on "Live firing in the Reserves"?

 

[dutchie]

Nothing other than I'd like to do more of it.

 

[Northern Touch]

Please don't sell the Army Reserve short: considering the huge obstacles they face (time being the most difficult) they can produce some very respectable soldiers and good quality training.

Thanks Sir, its nice to hear someone say that every now and then.

On to the topic.  I haven't been in that long but on both our weekend ex's and I imagine our Ex next month we will have had, or be using blanks.  Only time I've used simunition was in the FIBUA at SQ and there was actually a live fire at SQ too but everyone knows it was from the defensive and not a real defensive.  I'm pretty sure we don't have any live fire training at all other then our MLOC schedualed this year because of the safety factor and the amount of time it takes to train up to a standard where live fire can be safely and properly executed.

 

[REZTEEN]

"live fire" i like it even thou i cant take part cause I'm untrained at this point. But I'm sure it would be a nice change from those blanks lol

 

[Alex252]

Isnt there some sort of Lazer Tag type traing area somewhere. As for simmunition Amryboi, you are a cadet not a soldier no matter how much youd like to be so dont make a assumption without the knowledge! I think the whole "bang" theory is fine as long as there is reasons why you cant use blanks etc.

 

[pbi]

Isnt there some sort of Lazer Tag type traing area somewhere. As for simmunition Amryboi, you are a cadet not a soldier no matter how much youd like to be so dont make a assumption without the knowledge! I think the whole "bang" theory is fine as long as there is reasons why you cant use blanks etc.

The Canadian Manoeuvre Training Centre (CMTC) at LFWATC Wainwright is undergoing site trials now and should be open for business within a year. It will provide a digitized, laser-equipped battlespace that will duplicate the US Army's NTCs on a smaller scale. This will be focused on Regular Army readiness at MLOC Four/Five but it will also have dedicated serials for Army Reserve. It will be capable of supporting mech or dismtd FTX. As well, MILES has been available for a while now, and is an excellent tool. In 38 CBG we obtain it through a Standing Offer from a civilian supplier. I believe other Res CBGs also have access to it. SIMMUNITION has been in service in the Army for a couple of years now. I know that at least one Res CBG (31, IIRC) has used it, and it is available here in LFWA for Res use. We are hoping to try it out in the not too distant future.

Not all exercises are focussed on whether you were hit or not. If you are doing a section attack, for instance, you might be practicing fire and movement, group, team, and section movement, command capabilities of the JNCOs, etc.

You don't need live rounds for that (or milies gear, or simunition).

I grew up in the pre-MILES Army, and I can assure you that even with live fire training (and we did quite a bit...) we were learning some fatally bad lessons. When I first watched a rifle coy making an assault on a fortified position with MILES, I saw with my own eyes what bad habits we had acquired: IMHO we would have paid a pretty bloody price in battle. IMHO training without MILES should be the exception rather than the rule (to the extent that ammo and system availability permit..). We need to instill combat reactions as instinctive, and MILES can greatly help with this. Leaders, in particular, need to be cured very quickly of the "God complex" many of them get: that they can walk about waving their arms, yelling orders, trailing signaller behind them, without getting popped. MILEs is very important for tactical leader training.

Cheers.