Liberals Want Injured to Keep Getting Danger Pay Back in Canada

[the 48th regulator]

DVA, it isn't immediate but it is there....and getting much much better than what it was say 10 yrs ago.

No they, absolutely, are not better than ten years ago.


dileas

tess

 

[Hunter]

I was watching Canada AM this morning and The Boss was awesome.  He didn't even wait to hear the end of the question before he made it clear that he was geting it sorted out, and it would be done so in short order.  

I really hope he gets into politics when he finishes his military career  

 

[3rd Herd]

No they, absolutely, are not better than ten years ago.


dileas

tess

I second this motion.

 

[George Wallace]

I really hope he gets into politics when he finishes his military career 

Excuse me?  He is already playing 'politics'.

I hate to be negative about this, but the CDS has been on Tour several times and he knows full well what Danger Pay is and how it is administered.  This is nothing new to him.  The cries of soldiers who are ill-informed and claiming discrimination to allowances that they are not entitled to have been noticed by an equally less knowledgeable Press.  The CDS knows the rules.  Now he is playing 'Politician' in saying what he has.  He could have had something done a long time ago, not react to the waillings of the Press now

 

[cplcaldwell]

I don't think you are being negative Mr Wallace, I think you are right. But I don't think that there's anything in CDS's pronouncement that is wrong.

The CDS is a politician. Is there a General (at war) in history who has not, at some level, been a politician? Has there ever been a CDS that has not been? Hell, in this army, there are a lot of Colonels that are politicians (one need not confine the search to 'Disneyland am Rideau' to find them, either).

Of course things like this could have been solved a long time ago. I doubt though, anyone really identified it as a problem a long time ago.

I think, once the 'problem' surfaced that CDS and/or his staff thought, out of a combination of sincere desire to be fair and, yes, even some modicum of cynical opportunism, "it is time to make a splash".

End of the day, Hillier looks good, CF looks good, (hopefully) guys like HoM get a bit of loot and plugs (like me) say "Cool, the Boss is cool".

Down side????? Anyone?... Anyone?.... Bueller?

But then again, I think Machiavelli was 'right on' too...

 

[RHFC_piper]

I vote for Rick Hillier as 'Boss of the Year'.

He has my vote.

Down side????? Anyone?... Anyone?.... Bueller?

I would like someone here to sight specific problems this payout will 'cause other than the 'Its not fair, your're back home' issue.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just need a reasonable devils advocate.

Modified 'cause I had more thoughts in my head and didn't want to post twice in a row.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I, along with many others, believe we are in a generations long war; we will, perforce, have a steady stream of casualties: dozens KIA, hundreds WIA and as many ’stressed’ year after year after year.

Rather than reacting and having the CDS propose a quick fix here and there – using and abusing the wrong budget, we need the Minister of Veterans’ Affairs, The Honourable Gregory Francis Thompson, P.C., M.P.  (http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/general/sub.cfm?source=department/message/thompson ) to get his officials off their fat asses and kick them into the planning mode.

Veterans of this new, long, long war deserve support programmes just as much as did their grandfathers when they returned home in 1945.  It will not be as costly because there will be hundreds of thousands, not a million, veterans of active service.

A new VA regime needs to be put in place which will ‘support’ all veterans of active service and which will provide special levels of support to war widows/widowers and children (e.g. scholarship funds for post secondary education for the children of our war dead – available even if the widow/widower does remarry) and for the wounded and stressed (financial support for rehabilitation periods, free education and job training, preferential employment in the public service, etc).

The CDS should not be misusing DND’s personnel budget to solve VAC’s problem, which I suggest is a combination of inertia and idleness.

We may need to start by ensuring that personnel posted to the SW Asia theatre of operations are, indeed, on active service.

 

[RHFC_piper]

The CDS should not be misusing DND’s personnel budget to solve VAC’s problem, which I suggest is a combination of inertia and idleness.

As much as I agree with just about everything you wrote (especially about this being a generational conflict, and the amount of wounded), I don't see this as a way of solving a VAC problem, it's a loss of income problem.  It's not so much that they're going to pay out from a budget as much as they are going to choose not to discontinue paying an already allotted sum.  Meaning, if no one was ever injured, this money would still be going to those soldiers.

In the case of wounded soldiers being paid they're lost overseas bonuses from previous tours; that does seem to be a VAC concern, which the govenment will have to pay anyway.

But it leave the question; How far back do you go? How long will it take? Will it end up damaging the federal budget? and will it be fair (intrest, etc.)?

Just a thought.

 

[HItorMiss]

Edward makes many good points ones that need to be addressed, I don't think for a second that this is a quick fix answer, I do not agree with just throwing money at it to shut it up, that is never the solution.

End of the day, Hillier looks good, CF looks good, (hopefully) guys like HoM get a bit of loot and plugs (like me) say "Cool, the Boss is cool".

I don't particularly care about me, honestly I'm fighting to recoup and get back with my mates, but I do care about guys like Piper and a Sgt I know guys who have no compensation nothing but a thanks for coming out here's your wound strip now you're someone else is problem till we can get work out of you again. And trust even though I and others have been treated very well what I just said is very much how it feels.

I think the system needs to be changed, I think VAC needs to change (but then again it's needed to changed for 20 years now) I really hope that as crappy as this situation came to the forefront it's a situation that needs addressing in an immediate way.

 

[armyvern]

Well said Edward!!

Finally the voice of reason instead of the voice of reaction.

My personal viewpoint is:

This is a Veteran's Affairs area.

SISIP does not re-imburse for lost wages because...allowances and benefits are NOT lost wages;

Theatre hazard/risk/hardship benefits granted to us by the Treasury Board and allowances for special duty areas are just that...payable because you ARE IN a special duty area.

VAC is not going to give you a life-long pension for an injury that will not affect you life-long.

However, I believe it falls squarely on the shoulders of VAC (a HUGE shortfall shall we call it in this case) to ensure that soldiers injured whether short-term, long-term, physiclly, mentally or a combo of any such, in any area of service to their country, whether on a so-called "Peacekeeping tour" or in an "Armed Conflict" (No...officially we are not at "war" in Afghanistan  : immediately receive:

-immediate lump compensation for the injury inflicted (no matter if deemed by them to be permanent or not);
-immediate compensation and support to the NOK/family to ensure that their direct on-site support of their loved one in whatever hospital/rehab facility is immediately possible;
-to immediately liaise with our injured to ensure prompt claims processing and physical/mental care is immediately provided and carried out on a life-long basis if necessary;
-to deem themselves responsible to follow-up with ALL individual claimants (whether VAC has deemed their injuries permanent or not) on (at minimum) an annual basis to update their files with real-time claimants needs/changes to situation vice having the members be required to go back and fight with VAC again and again as their situation/health changes as is currently the case; and to
-cut the current system of red-tape/stalling/"everyone will need to appeal at least once" that seems to be the experience of the vast majority of personnel who've had the pleasure of dealing with them. Benefit of the doubt should ALWAYS go to the injured soldier, because when it doesn't, it seems that it the ones who really need VACs services and care (either short-term or long) who end up fighting the system.

Soldiers First!!

 

[vonGarvin]

Maybe a simple solution would be say "Right.  You are going to A'stan for x months.  That equals y dollars.  You have a two options:
(A) take 1/x amount of y every month
(b) take all of x upon repatriation"
If a member gets wounded on day one or on the last day, they get paid the HARDSHIP and IN THEATRE bonuses (boni?) irrespective if they are "over there" or not.  It's a lump sum, payable either all at once at repatriation or in slices, once a month.

Is this too simple?

 

[HItorMiss]

Thats basicaly what happens now if your deployed it comes in monthly installments to a electronic account (unless you want it to go somewhere else) where at the end of tour your are paid out a lump sum of everything you have not taken out of your account. Problem is because it's monthly the second you leave it all stops after the 25 day grace ( so you can take HLTA).

 

[RHFC_piper]

Theatre hazard/risk/hardship benefits granted to us by the Treasury Board and allowances for special duty areas are just that...payable because you ARE IN a special duty area.

I'm sure, had those of us who were wounded knew, before we left KAF for Germany, that upon leaving that A; these benifits were going to cease and B; we have a choice about where we would like to spend our recovery time, we might have sellected KAF as our recovery location.
Seems Glib, I know.  But if I had it to do again, and the option were there, I would have just stayed in that special duty area. (for more than just monetary reasons)

Basically, as shallow and cold as it sounds, heres what I know; I'm covered in wounds that I couldn't prevent, I'm away from the place I want be, I'm going to be in pain for a long while, and as well taken care of, medically, I am, I am now going to get $10,000 less than I would have made haden't I gotten my self all shot full of holes by someone elses doing. I call this the 'Salt in wounds' Syndrome... aka. 'KickedWhenDownitis'..

But I digress... its not about the money.. its the 'see ya later, sucker." feeling... maybe its just the PTSD talking.

 

[armyvern]

I'm sure, had those of us who were wounded knew, before we left KAF for Germany, that upon leaving that A; these benifits were going to cease and B; we have a choice about where we would like to spend our recovery time, we might have sellected KAF as our recovery location.
Seems Glib, I know.  But if I had it to do again, and the option were there, I would have just stayed in that special duty area. (for more than just monetary reasons)

Basically, as shallow and cold as it sounds, heres what I know; I'm covered in wounds that I couldn't prevent, I'm away from the place I want be, I'm going to be in pain for a long while, and as well taken care of, medically, I am, I am now going to get $10,000 less than I would have made haden't I gotten my self all shot full of holes by someone elses doing. I call this the 'Salt in wounds' Syndrome... aka. 'KickedWhenDownitis'..

But I digress... its not about the money.. its the 'see ya later, sucker." feeling... maybe its just the PTSD talking.

I understand your situation. But, it is not a secret that benefits are payable only when in-theatre, and that when you leave theatre...these cease. Just like your seperation expense benefits cease when you are on HLTA and reunited with your NOK...because you are no longer seperated and are thus not entitled. When not in the field...one is not entitled to field pay. When not on TD one is not entitled to TD benefits. Etc.

The fight for rights and benefits/care for the injured such as yourself who have come out of theatre rests squarely with Veteran's Affairs, who really need to pony up and start looking after you guys fully, promptly and appropriately. I'm not saying your not entitled to something....I'm saying that it falls under the realm of DVA and they need to fix their system and start removing the salt from the wounds.

 

[HItorMiss]

Vern don't get me started on Field pay, that's a huge fight in it own, explain to me how a sailor get sea pay when his ship in dry dock at Stand but because he is posted to a ship he gets sea pay, that argument about fiield pay benefits is already in the process of being changed.

However your argument in for this being an issue of VAC I'm not so sure that's it's not a whole CF and it's compatriots issue. I think the CF, VAC SISIP and what ever else dog and dockey group want to add to issues problems.

 

[the 48th regulator]

The fight for rights and benefits/care for the injured such as yourself who have come out of theatre rests squarely with Veteran's Affairs, who really need to pony up and start looking after you guys fully, promptly and appropriately. I'm not saying your not entitled to something....I'm saying that it falls under the realm of DVA and they need to fix their system and start removing the salt from the wounds.

The money has already been budgeted for the Troops, what harm is it to continue giving to them.  They are in no way out of danger, as the risk now involves a myriad of factors due to the injury.

The danger pay is just that, working under danger.  Now they have encountered the hazard, been affected by, so we should therefore stop??

Makes no sense to me.

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

The money has already been budgeted for the Troops, what harm is it to continue giving to them.  They are in no way out of danger, as the risk now involves a myriad of factors due to the injury.

The danger pay is just that, working under danger.  Now they have encountered the hazard, been affected by, so we should therefore stop??

Makes no sense to me.

dileas

tess

I agree with you Tess and HorM...but the key word here is, as you say above,

due to the injury

and that's when VAC should be immediately kicking in with appropriate injury allowances/benefits and lump sum payments in respect to earnings/benefits/allowances lost due to the injury. I agree it should happen, we just disagree from whom the 'compensation' should come.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I see, that is bang on.  I was too quick to pull the post trigger.

The posts in this thread have been phenomenal.  The CDS has changed things, but this is only rewarding bad behaviour of Veteran Affairs.

That is the damaged area that must be fixed, and trust me I have experienced many a broken situation with them.

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

The CDS has changed things, but this is only rewarding bad behaviour of Veteran Affairs.

That is the damaged area that must be fixed, and trust me I have experienced many a broken situation with them.

And VAC needs to be fixed. Injured soldiers are supposed to be cared for and compensated by them.

And yes, the allowances/benefits for each position in-theatre are already budgeted for but this does not make the paying of them to an injured soldier who has been removed from theatre an 'already covered' or 'paid for' area. The allowances are paid out to individuals based on their POSITION in-theatre. For those that are injured and removed, how do we go about paying the back-up soldier who deploys from Canada and replaces them in that position their allowances if those allotted allowances are being paid to the injured?

Simple...the injured should be covered by Veteran's Affairs...that is their mandated area and it's high time it happened.

 

[George Wallace]

........I don't see this as a way of solving a VAC problem, it's a loss of income problem.  

Basically, as shallow and cold as it sounds, heres what I know; I'm covered in wounds that I couldn't prevent, I'm away from the place I want be, I'm going to be in pain for a long while, and as well taken care of, medically, I am, I am now going to get $10,000 less than I would have made haden't I gotten my self all shot full of holes by someone elses doing. I call this the 'Salt in wounds' Syndrome... aka. 'KickedWhenDownitis'..

But I digress... its not about the money.. its the 'see ya later, sucker." feeling... maybe its just the PTSD talking.

It seems to me that with you it is all about the money.  I do not know any job where if you were injured you'd be covered 100% for loss of Income.  You would receive an amount of money that would allow you to maintain a reasonable lifestyle, not any more.  The Government is very 'Cheap' when it comes to 'paying out' its' employees (unlike its Mandarins).  The rules for all Military Allowances are strictly layed out.  Once a Service Member becomes injured it is now time for SISIP and DVA to do their thing.  Their Review Process is going to have to be revamped and brought up to standard to take care of our casualties.  The CF fights the war, SISIP insures the Service Members, and DVA takes care of the Veterans of those wars during and afterwards.

This whole business has focused everyone on DND and the CF, not the real culprits; the DVA and SISIP.