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"Liberal platform on defence"

MarkOttawa

Army.ca Fixture
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The start of a Torch post:
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/09/liberal-platform-on-defence.html

This is it. Three pathetically thin paragraphs. Note the lie in the third paragraph...

URL for the platform:
http://www.liberal.ca/pdf/platform/2008lp_world_e.pdf

Mark
Ottawa
 
My fear is that people will buy into this, like they did with Chretien canceling the EH-101. The end result would not be more savings, but instead will cost us far far more money in canceled contracts, then the pause in getting new contracts out, followed by the realization that those contracts that are soul sourced have been soul sourced for a reason.

Ahh well, back to the cone of silence for me. I will speak more on it after the election. Or maybe in my private memoirs, were I can vent till I am blue in the face.
 
By putting a firm end date on the military deployment in Kandahar

...........but not elsewhere in Afghanistan ;)

Those three measly paragraphs are so full of pap, double talk and bullshit, it sounds like the speechwriter was once again the petite thug de Shawinigan.
 
And how are they reportedly going to pay for all the promises?  You guessed it...

Liberal Platform Meeting Call: Childcare low priority, gut the military, silence on the Green Shift
Steve Janke, Angry in the Great White North web log, 22 Sept 08
Blog post link

If you're interested, I have here an MP3 of the conference call held today by the Liberal Party with MPs and community activists to discuss today's launch of the Liberal Party platform.

There are several interesting points.  Going back to standard Liberal-style practise, the military is going to be bled dry.  Childcare spaces will be made if the Liberals find money after paying for everything else.  And the Green Shift?  Not mentioned during the main presentation.

The conference call took place this morning at 9:30am.  John McCallum chaired the call, with various Liberal MPs and dozens of third party community groups being given a sneak peek, so that they can prepare gushing praise for the Liberal platform.  Here's the raw recording of that meeting.  It's in five parts ....  click here to download it



And what would Canadians think?  Here's one view:  "Half of Canadians want to scale back the Harper Conservatives' plan to boost military spending by $490-billion over two decades, a new poll suggests...."

More in the National Post's blog...
 
"boost military spending"? Treading water.

Mark
Ottawa
 
Wow. I almost feel like joining the Liberal Party so I can stand up at one of these meetings and supply a dose of reality.

From the look of it, reality will need to be delivered in large, foil wrapped suppositories, which is far to messy a job for the likes of me  >:D

Unfortunately, much the same can be said about any of our political parties, reflecting the people's interest and attention to the subject of the "Defense of the Realm"......
 
Thucydides said:
From the look of it, reality will need to be delivered in large, foil wrapped suppositories, which is far to messy a job for the likes of me  >:D

You could always try using one of those pneumatic T-shirt launchers they have at the ball games ;D
 
McCallum was a lousy defence minister who did nothing to address the problems caused by continuous slashing of the DND budget.

You would most certainly not want this fella to speak FOR us...
 
The only increase to DND's budget when McCallum was the Minister, was when he took his empties back.
 
Rifleman62 said:
The only increase to DND's budget when McCallum was the Minister, was when he took his empties back.

Thanks. The proverbial coffee all over the monitor and keyboard just happened! ;D
 
I would hope the Liberal Defence Platform is the 10 metre high dive board, and the entire Lib caucus jumps. And takes Jack and Dawn with them!!
In the words of Yosemite Sam, that wise man:
"I paid to see the high divin act, now I'm gonna see the High Divin Act!!"
 
Well, it's exactly the sort of nonsense I expected.  Which for the Liberals isn't much in the first place.  But it doesn't matter, I have about as much chance as M. Dion does of becoming PM.
 
Instead of making a new topic I decided to stick this in here (mods feel free to move/delete if warranted), since its about liberals wanting to reduce military spending.

shared with the usual provisos

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/09/24/kevin-libin-liberals-eye-military-budget-to-fund-campaign-pledges.aspx

Kevin Libin: Liberals eye military budget to fund campaign pledges
Posted: September 24, 2008, 9:33 AM by Kelly McParland
Full Comment, Kevin Libin, canadian election, Liberals


Someone in the Liberal camp isn’t happy with the party’s new platform, it seems. On Monday, just hours before it released its official platform --  "Action Plan for the 21st Century -- the party held a conference call, an “insider briefing,” for party workers and activists. In it, MP and finance critic John McCallum explained how the Liberals would manage to afford its spending promises.

Somebody in on the call taped the conversation. Then they leaked it. Blogger Steve Janke, who put the recording on his website. In an interesting study in contrasts, McCallum made some frank comments to insiders that didn’t show up later  when unveiling the platform to the public.

As CBC’s Political Bytes website reported, McCallum admitted in not as many words that the party did not, as supporters had apparently expected, really have a national housing strategy, but rather had some targets for upping affordable housing units. “Well, I suppose you could call it a national housing strategy . . .” McCallum said -- and you can almost hear him shrugging. Another voice elicited laughs when he chimed in "We definitely have a strategy,” after which it sounds like another participant cried: “Thank God!” When asked what the whole platform’s package will cost, McCallum first gives the official answer -- that it’ll cost “$15.5 billion dollars over five years”-- but added, “that's a little bit misleading,” without elaborating on exactly how Canadians were being be misled.

What the CBC didn’t mention may be a more interesting revelation about how the Liberals wish to reconstitute the federal deficit contingency reserve (to cushion the government against slipping into the red): a total of $12 billion over four years. The former Liberal cabinet minister and Bay Street economist is careful to explain that the party is “committed to find $12 billion over four years through more efficient delivery of programs to Canadians. . . If we can't find savings of that magnitude than we’re not good economic managers.”

You’d certainly have to be: $12 billion is a lot of money to squeeze out by just delivering programs with more efficiency. At least one Liberal thought so too, and asked McCallum for some examples of where those “efficiencies” might be found, or more bluntly, “what will we be accused of cutting?”

Here’s the interesting part: McCallum (a former defence minister, by the way) suggests that one of the first things he’d tighten spending on is the Canadian Forces. “I think the defence budget in recent years has gone up at a very dramatic rate and that for us to continue . . . without further ramping up is responsible, particularly at a time of shortage of money.” (Arts funding, however, will get more money from the Liberals).

Military cuts, of course, have long been top on the Liberals’ hit list when it comes to finding money for, as McCallum put it “new priorities.” The military was “burned out during years of Liberal cutbacks,” as the party’s own Senator Colin Kenny once put it. Canada’s budget for national defence was lacerated by 23% between ’93 and ’98 as Liberals closed bases, cut staff and cancelled equipment upgrades. Whether you’re Liberal or Tory, it’s hard to dispute that Canadian troops in Afghanistan have been dealing with some of the repercussions of those decisions with, among other things, a lack of transport aircraft.

That Liberal era of military shrinkage was, arguably, a different time: Canada was in need of emergency financial intervention with out-of-control debts and deficits, and the social democracies of the world had anyway decided to cash in their peace dividends, convinced Huntington’s Fukuyama's (thanks to MGSt in the comments for correcting me on this one) end of history had come to pass. Soft power was then the Liberals’ calling card.

The world is plainly a much different place today. The federal Conservatives prefer at least posturing a more muscular approach, as demonstrated in their insistence (till this election campaign, anyway) on staying in Afghanistan and their bluster over securing Canada’s North using military means. To prove it, they have indeed ramped up spending (though critics claim not nearly sufficiently) and unveiled plans to bulk up on ships and planes. No surprise that the Tories are reported to be actively targeting the military vote this election. What is surprising, though, is that the Liberals are said to be doing the same. McCallum’s confession that he expects the military to deliver a key part of his program efficiencies may indeed be one way to go. Maybe not. Either way, a return to softer power certainly isn’t a position destined to rake in votes from Canadians in uniform. No wonder it’s the kind of thing Liberals prefer discussing off the record, in the comfortable confines of what was supposed to be a conversation strictly among friends.
National Post
 
Well, nearly three quarters of all Canadians hope the NDP disappears to the wastelands never to be seen or heard from again!
 
As others have said so well on here, the way the questions are asked can guarantee the outcome you want.  Too many people just read the poll results and don't use the intelligence God gave them to use their brains and find out for themseves that even the current level of spending is not enough. When people can spew garbage and accuse our troops of genocide it's hard to fathom why so many brave young men and women chose to stand up for what is right.
Thankfully many do and help build countries - like OldSolduer's son, while too many focus on building their own personal empires. Thank God we have people like Mike was, who knew what was right without being told by some media hack what he should think.
 
An article by Douglas Bland (usual copyright disclaimer):

Maybe we should just stay home
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=51b3dfbb-2edd-4fdb-b62a-e7c9aaa4466b&sponsor=

The Liberal Party's "Action Plan," released last week hurried past "defence" in a scant 359 words. In that brief note, Stéphane Dion's party committed to spend some $18 billion on national defence -- the Conservative plan -- without indicating what its policy might be. And this at a time when Canada is involved in a war and a commitment to the Afghan people initiated by the Liberal government in the first place. The logic of his brief statement is strained.

It states: "Canada's ongoing commitment to the military mission in Afghanistan has depleted our ability to deploy the Canadian Forces elsewhere in the world. ... (W)e are severely limited in our ability to offer assistance to (the Vancouver Olympic Games in 2010 and) other international efforts as they arise. By putting a firm end date on the military deployment in Kandahar, we will regain flexibility with respect to our military to respond to emergency situations both domestically and internationally."

Leaving aside for the moment the question of whether the protection of Afghans ought to be subordinated to the Olympics, the assertion that the UN/NATO Afghan mission is the cause of the "inflexibility" in the Canadian Forces seems particularly confused. The Canadian Forces and, therefore, Canadian defence, security, and foreign policies are inflexible because the armed forces lack sufficient capabilities to do the things Mr. Dion might wish them to do. They lack these capabilities -- sufficient and reasonable combat vehicles, naval vessels, transport aircraft, and especially large units of young, well-trained people -- because Liberal governments during Mr. Dion's time as a member of cabinet refused to provide for them even in times of great budget surpluses.

If committing the Canadian Forces to international peace and stability missions creates inflexibility, how can the Liberal party now argue that the Afghan mission ought to be replaced with "other international efforts as they arise." Surely, committing the Canadian Forces to other significant missions will merely recreate somewhere else the inflexibility that Mr. Dion condemns in Afghanistan. The only way to avoid this dilemma would be to keep the armed forces at home, unless, of course, the Liberal party intends to redress the true cause of defence policy inflexibility by dramatically increasing defence spending and revamping at the same time the scandalously inept defence procurement system.

Unfortunately, he plans to do neither of these things. Rather, Mr. Dion will follow the Conservative party's inadequate defence budget plan by "(remaining) committed to the money allocated in the fiscal framework to the Canadian Forces over the coming four years." It is a formula that the Liberal chair of the Senate Committee on Security and National Defence concluded "... will mean reduced military budgets over the coming years once inflation is taken into account" for an armed force that Senator Colin Kenny described as "burned out during years of Liberal cutbacks."

In a recent insider conference call held by John McCallum and revealed by blogger Steve Janke, Mr. McCallum remarked: "I think the defence budget in recent years has gone up at a very dramatic rate and that for us to continue along this path without further ramping up is irresponsible, particularly at a time of shortage of money." Perhaps we now have a hint as to where the money is to come from to support the Liberal Party's Action Plan.

In late 2003 a Queen's University study, "Canada without Armed Forces?" argued that "The next government will be caught up in a cascading policy entanglement initiated by the rapid collapse of Canadian Forces core assets and core capabilities. This problem will (in five to 10 years) inevitably disarm foreign policy as Canada repeatedly backs away from international commitments because it lacks adequate military forces."

Three successive governments considered this gathering crisis and walked away from it. Mr. Dion's Liberal party, however, appears to have resigned itself to accepting as its defence policy this sad, unnecessary situation.

Douglas Bland is a professor and chair of the Defence Management Studies Program at the School of Policy Studies at Queen's University.

Mark
Ottawa
 
A bit more on Liberal defence "spending", shared with the usual disclaimer....

Canada Liberals consider defense spending cuts
Reuters, 8 Oct 08
Article link

Canadian Liberal leader Stephane Dion refused on Wednesday to rule out renewed cuts to the military if he defeats Conservative Prime Minister Stephen Harper in next week's election.

The Liberals slashed the defense budget by about one-quarter in the 1990s in their bid to eliminate fiscal deficits, leading to U.S. complaints that Canada was not carrying its weight in the NATO alliance.

The Liberals later reversed some cuts and the Conservatives, after taking power in 2006, expanded the size of the military and accelerated the purchase of equipment.

Canada has 2,500 troops in southern Afghanistan as part of the fight against Taliban militants.

In an interview with CBC television, Dion declined to commit to not cutting military spending again if he wins the election on Tuesday.

"What I will say is that we will have strong discipline and we'll make sure that never we'll ask ... military forces something that's not realistic," said Dion, who trails Harper by several points in opinion polls.

When the interviewer pointed out that was not the same as promising no reductions, Dion replied, "No, but what I'm saying is that we have been good to have strong fiscal discipline in this country and to invest where we are sure that we'll have optimal results." (Reporting by Randall Palmer; Editing by Peter Cooney)

 
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