LGBTQ Stuff (split from other political threads)

[TacticalTea]

Interesting. So your take is that women are less safe around men?

Around the kinds of men that want to impose themselves upon them when they're vulnerable, absolutely.

 

[suffolkowner]

The ridiculous thing being that all of a sudden people are worried about women being abused in public washrooms all of a sudden when we speak about transgendered types.

Interesting. So your take is that women are less safe around men?

What would be interesting is to see where women are being sexually assaulted and by who. My guess is being assaulted by transgendered biological men in women’s public bathrooms would be low.


I don’t think the backlash is being driven by scientific.

The Liberals are playing their part in this as well.

trans women are a very small number so absolute numbers are meaningless it would have to be relative and weighted

women are less safe around men so are men and so are children

I dont think its a sudden thing to worry about abuse in public bathrooms

 

[OldSolduer]

I dont think its a sudden thing to worry about abuse in public bathrooms

For public washrooms probably not - I draw the line at so called "trans" men who want to compete with girls and share the same change room. Granted they are probably not very common BUT we need to make that clear.

 

[QV]

Interesting. So your take is that women are less safe around men?

You just don't see or hear about a lot women rushing to use men's bathrooms or get into men's sports... This seems largely one-way. Why is that?

 

[Quirky]

You just don't see or hear about a lot women rushing to use men's bathrooms or get into men's sports... This seems largely one-way. Why is that?

When you can't compete among your own gender, just switch sides!

Trans athlete sparks outrage after toppling women's powerlifting world record: 'Completely unfair'

Female powerlifter April Hutchinson explains her frustration after a transgender athlete dominated the competition in a female powerlifting division.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

Don’t play coy. The issue is about transgendered people using washrooms and the backlash about it and the whole issue of transgenderism writ large in the public discourse. If a man wants to abuse a woman in a public washroom, no amount of legislation on transgender rights is going to change that.

I don't care about TG people in washrooms, in the abstract. I do care about the cases I've read about in which men abused women, in the concrete. If we're not to "play coy", we must not pretend that separate washrooms and the attendant social pressures to respect the boundaries don't deter men from pestering and exploiting women to satisfy some oddball sexual quiffs. Obviously determined men abuse women in myriad ways every day. It is fallacious to argue that if we can not solve every facet of a problem, we should not act to solve some.

"Safe spaces for women" is a legitimate objective - washrooms, changing rooms, shelters, etc - to promote women's safety and privacy. That can't be waved away by trying to situate those who object to removing the protections where you think they ought to be placed (eg. "fearful about TG"). You don't get to specify what others' motives are. There are some people who are "fearful" the way you think. But it's fallacious to suggest that they represent the whole. They aren't a strawman you get to use to dismiss everyone.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The ridiculous thing being that all of a sudden people are worried about women being abused in public washrooms all of a sudden when we speak about transgendered types.

Again: it has happened; it likely will happen. You don't get to dismiss others' concerns. The existence of people who are using "concerns" as a mask for dislike does not delegitimize everyone else.

 

[suffolkowner]

The dichotomy is dead simple.

XX
XY

karyotype is a good place holder for sex but in reality it matters what pathway is activated. Chromosome, partial chromosome and gene duplications happen

 

[captloadie]

I am just curious. Why do you need a background verification to work with children? Be it school or volunteer groups?

Maybe its a proactive measure to protect the innocent.

Thats why BIOLOGICAL WOMAN only should use the womens bathrooms.

Curious, are you a father?

I am a father, of a daughter and two sons. And I have taught my children how to protect themselves to the best of their ability, and not rely on the fact that the rules are supposed to do that for them. I also taught them to be accepting, and open to people who by their standards might be different. I also taught them not to let fear and distrust be the first emotions they feel about people. And so far their lives have been better for it.

My wife and I have both had verification checks done due to her running a daycare (and my daughter as well when she turned 18). And I do think it is an important check to help keep children from being put at risk from known baddies. But even someone with a clean background check can do those children harm, and no rules can stop that unfortunately.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My wife sent our kids to the Unitarian church for awhile (She was looking for a good place for kids) When they made all the washrooms gender neutral we left. It's just plain stupid. If I am in a washroom and young girl came in, I would leave. The risk of any sort of accusation is not worth it. The number of truly trans gender people is incredibly tiny percentage of the population. (There was one kid there that truly was transgender and was a mess and not being helped by being raised by two man hating Lesbians)

 

[Remius]

Again: it has happened; it likely will happen. You don't get to dismiss others' concerns. The existence of people who are using "concerns" as a mask for dislike does not delegitimize everyone else.

There is nothing wrong with calling out hypocrisy even if it makes people uncomfortable.

Again, the clash over transgender rights isn’t about protecting women.

 

[Remius]

You just don't see or hear about a lot women rushing to use men's bathrooms or get into men's sports... This seems largely one-way. Why is that?

They do things like joining male dominant spaces like the CAF, Police etc.

Like I mentioned above, when I was into the bar scene, women had no issues entering the men’s room to to their business.

 

[QV]

They do things like joining male dominant spaces like the CAF, Police etc.

Like I mentioned above, when I was into the bar scene, women had no issues entering the men’s room to to their business.

Not at all relatable to the discussion at hand.

 

[Remius]

Not at all relatable to the discussion at hand.

If the discussion is about the safety of women around men then yes it is.

The argument I responded to is that introducing men into women spaces is dangerous.

Don’t cherry pick. It’s exactly what I am pointing out in relation to this debate.

 

[Brad Sallows]

There is nothing wrong with calling out hypocrisy even if it makes people uncomfortable.

Again, the clash over transgender rights isn’t about protecting women.

Again, for some people, it is. And what exactly are the "transgender rights" that are distinct from "human rights"?

[Add: the tedious re-assertion that it's about "transphobia", or whatever term of art serves, is no different than the rest of the excuse templates: "Those people are racists." "Those people are misogynists." "Those people are homophobic." All vacuous ad hominem generalizations about heterogeneous mixes of people, usually advanced in the hope of pre-empting discussion.]

 

[Brad Sallows]

If the discussion is about the safety of women around men then yes it is.

The argument I responded to is that introducing men into women spaces is dangerous.

Don’t cherry pick. It’s exactly what I am pointing out in relation to this debate.

The "bar scene", as with the "campus scene", is relevant. Both emphasize that the risk to women is situational. Sexual predators aren't likely to act when there are a lot of people (witnesses, potential intervenors) present. It doesn't prove that mixed gender spaces are safe; the most that is suggested is that crowded places are safer.

 

[suffolkowner]

Do women care if transwomen or transmen use their bathrooms and changerooms? How many need to care for it to be a priority?

 

[Remius]

Again, for some people, it is. And what exactly are the "transgender rights" that are distinct from "human rights"?

Gender identity was added to the Human Rights charter. Would transgender issues be a better term.?

The "bar scene", as with the "campus scene", is relevant. Both emphasize that the risk to women is situational. Sexual predators aren't likely to act when there are a lot of people (witnesses, potential intervenors) present. It doesn't prove that mixed gender spaces are safe; the most that is suggested is that crowded places are safer.

Great. So situational. Excellent.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Gender identity was added to the Human Rights charter. Would transgender issues be a better term.?

Great. So situational. Excellent.

It doesn't need a name. It needs examples. Protection from discrimination isn't entitlement to anything except protection from discrimination. No-one is advocating prohibiting them from going shopping or using any washroom whatsoever.

If it's "situational" based on the presence of other people, it means the claim-by-example that mixed gender spaces are safe is the wrong conclusion.

 

[Remius]

It doesn't need a name. It needs examples. Protection from discrimination isn't entitlement to anything except protection from discrimination. No-one is advocating prohibiting them from going shopping or using any washroom whatsoever.

If it's "situational" based on the presence of other people, it means the claim-by-example that mixed gender spaces are safe is the wrong conclusion.

Right. So as long as the risk is situational. Whatever the reason. Completely on board with that.