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Let The Sucking Up Start- Defence Firms Converge on Ottawa

Bruce Monkhouse

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http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canada/2006/04/02/1516427-sun.html
Sun, April 2, 2006

Defence giants target Tories
By STEPHANIE RUBEC, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER

OTTAWA -- Armed with dirt on their rivals, the world's largest defence firms are converging on Ottawa this week in anticipation of a flood of billion-dollar federal contracts under the new Conservative government.

Aerospace and trucking giants papered Parliament Hill with rumours and innuendo in the lead-up to a massive trade show this week in an effort to sully their competitors.
The hottest contracts up for grabs will provide replacements for the ancient Hercules transport fleet, army vehicles and search-and-rescue aircraft.

Paul Martin's Liberals inked a $12.2-billion deal shortly before the federal election to fast-track the purchase of tactical choppers, fixed-wing planes and selected Hercules' new C-130J to replace Canada's older fleet.
However, both Boeing and Airbus have torqued up their lobbying efforts in hopes the Conservatives will rip up the deal for the C-130J.
 
And Boeing is flying a huge C-17 to Ottawa Tuesday in an effort to convince Prime Minister Stephen Harper that the Canadian Forces need heavy lifting capabilities.
Military firms are banking on the Conservative election platform which promised to fast track the replacement of rusting military equipment and boost the size of the Canadian Forces.

Harper's Conservatives have pledged to hike military spending by $5.3 billion over the next five years and pump some of that money into bases and military housing, hire 23,000 more soldiers and buy big-ticket items such as ice breakers for Canada's North.
 
Honestly I'll just wait to see what happens i ain't getting my hopes up although i do think Harper does want to spend alot on getting new equipment...but it's just that I'll believe it when i see it.
 
I think he'd LOVE to sign some contracts for some of this hardware, but his hands are tied being that he's on a very tight minority leash. Not much he can do without the backing of everyone else. Sadly I fear these defence contractors are blowing hot air over nothing because there's not much Harper can do as of this time really...

We'll see...

----------> WATCH AND SHOOT!
 
The Grits were in the process of buying new kit when the election hit, so I think there'd be a majority of seats in Parliament willing to see equipment bought.

The question here isn't "will it or won't it?" but rather "HOW will it?" Will Reform maintain the Grit fast track purchases, or will they reopen bidding so "their" guys can get in on the deal (but slowing up the time when the guys get the kit)?

DG
 
RecceDG said:
The Grits were in the process of buying new kit when the election hit, so I think there'd be a majority of seats in Parliament willing to see equipment bought.

I think the lieberals were simply telling another vote garnering election promise. They would have broken it or modified it to the point where it wouldn't do what was intended. It would have stalled and been placed on the back burner. They've never kept a substantial promise in their lives. Just my opinion mind you.
 
All I can say is it is an exciting time to be in the CF. In my opinion we have come along way since I joined in  Nov.96. I am not saying that we are not still way behind the American and the British in kit acquirement. I remember well what it was like wearing the combat jean jacket, driving in 1960 era M113's,catching rides with the Americans and British on tour because we had no heavy lift choppers(still doing so), sleeping outside in the wet without a bivy bag etc. etc. Hopefully the Conservatives will be able to hold on to power long enough to supply us some of the big ticket items we need to become a major player on the world stage again.Bring on the Chinooks,Blackhawks, Ml replacements, ships,transport aircraft and everything else we need to get the job done.
 
Keep in mind the CF is doign quite well on individual kit (albiet in too small numbers).  Most British units do not have effective night fighting equiptment at the dismounted Platoon...

C17's would be nice - in addition to the C130J's

A lot of the Conservative promises however where not grounded in reality.


 
KevinB said:
A lot of the Conservative promises however where not grounded in reality.

Quite true Kev, but they made them with the best intentions and the CF's interest at heart. Not just as a way to garner votes and support, with no real intention of delivering.
 
recceguy said:
Quite true Kev, but they made them with the best intentions and the CF's interest at heart. Not just as a way to garner votes and support, with no real intention of delivering.

I agree somewhat (I think some of the local base ideas where vote buying...)  I was even more impressed when he showed up to Afghan (albiet his 40 vehicle motorcade tooling thru Kabul was a wee bit excessive)

 
Lets hope we don't have another 10+ year helicoptor type fiasco with regards to contracts and penalties etc.
 
Wonder what the blue uniform types think would be better....C17 or another Herc.

I think, personally, the C17 would be a better deal for the CF. At least we could fly in sustainment in our own AC    ;)

Regards
 
But would you still not need Herc's to get in close on runways that are less then hospitible?  Can the KAF handle a C17?
 
There was a short program the other night on the C17. Sure sounded like a souped up Herc as far as runway and lift capacity. It would sure be nice to see them buy a couple of each...different scenario, tasking, etc
 
CFL said:
But would you still not need Herc's to get in close on runways that are less then hospitible?  Can the KAF handle a C17?

PM inbound  ;)
 
As far as I know a C17 can still land on "rough" runways, The US had them C17's landing (and KC-130's mind you...) on hard-packed SAND runways quickly made by army engineers. Their landing gear would even sink into the soft sand on the end of the runways, helping them stop in a short distance.

This was from a book I read by a United States Navy F/A-18 pilot in Iraq called "Hammer from Above", this pilot wrote the book with strictly the air war aspect, retelling stories of transport aircraft like the C-17, fighters like the AV-8B Harrier and the F/A-18s and attack helicopters such as the AH-1 Super Cobra and AH64-D Apache, look it up on the internet, GREAT read!

Anyway, I think if we attained C-17's and KEPT the Herc's we currently have that would be an awesome combo. Heck, I think the C-17's are almost big enough to fit a Herc inside them to transport in-theatre.... Almost big enough... :P

A C-5 Galaxy would be dreaming really, I see C-17's as doable and useful to the CF
 
R031 Pte Joe said:
Anyway, I think if we attained C-17's and KEPT the Herc's we currently have that would be an awesome combo.

Considering the fact that our 19 or so CC-130E's are close to 45 years-old and are going to be phased out in the very near future, keeping the Hercs and purchasing C-17's would be impossible. However, we do still have around 13 of the newer CC-130H's and along with a purchase of 15+ C-130J's and 5+ C-17's we'd be set in terms of airlift. This is obviously my opinion, but I'm pretty sure that we presently don't have the funds to purchase C-17's along with the C-130J's.
 
Some additional research opportunities for those interested in pursuing the aerospace angle on this subject.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/37145.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/22920.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/27489.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23889.0.html

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36075.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/32015.0.html

Mike offers additional opportunities for those interested in trucks, helicopters, LAVs, howitzers and other assorted gear.

Cheers  ;)
 
Just adding in here for all the doubters.....

 
Also:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/afghanistan/images/kandahar_c-17_020110-M-5839E-509.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/afghanistan/kandahar_afld-gallery.htm&h=533&w=800&sz=131&tbnid=T-Hoz-vRMZN-bM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=142&hl=en&ei=ZoQwRPqpF6GcigH609SpCg&sig2=6uvT5tBCPDclqiRIHnqtGQ&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3DC17%2BKandahar%2BAfghanistan%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

kandahar-iap_020225_04.jpg


Regards
 
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