LAV III Roll-Over, 02 Mar 06, 6 Injuried and 2 Dead

[George Wallace]

Gene

I didn't get the same impression from his comments.....perhaps from a different article....and a different source's/reporter's wording.

 

[camochick]

If we want to debate the driving and the LAV's can we take it to another thread. I am a spouse of someone who is over there and a loss is a loss and do not think that freaking out about the vehicles shows much respect for the families. I for one, would have hated for my phone to have rang early this morning . Much thoughts and prayers to the families.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Thank you camochick.

 

[George Wallace]

If we want to debate the driving and the LAV's can we take it to another thread.

Our concerns are about the families.

We do realize that some, like you, have family and friends over there at the present.

Unfortunately, it is these driving habits over there, and the equipment, that are also part of this current story.  As such it will tend to be brought up again and again in the discussion of this incident.  We will have to deal with it as factually as we can, keeping in mind what has happened.  People who have been there are in a position to better describe the conditions that may have led to this accident better than a Reporter from a National News Service, who was not.

 

[military granny]

camochick you are totally correct. I know my phone rang at 445 this morning and my heart bleeds for the other families involved.

 

[tomahawk6]

My prayers are with the families of the soldiers involved in this accident. I hope those injured have a speedy recovery. My condolences to the family of the soldier lost in this accident.

 

[Guy. E]

To the Families, Friends and everyone involved.

I am speechless...

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

try having a personal tie

 

[Blackhorse7]

   

 

[Guy. E]

Been there done that a few times.

Fortunately things didn't happen the way they could have and we were lucky.

 

[Whiskey_Dan]

The soldiers will be in my prayers and thoughts.
My deepest sympathies goes out to the families and soldiers.
  R.I.P. Soldier and a speedy recovery to the injured.

 

[Nagual]

  R.I.P.   

 

[Bobbyoreo]

[Mod edit - let's not speculate for the time being. These soldiers' families are already going through enough]

Sorry... should not have posted that.

 

[military granny]

Thank you Mods !!!  I know all the guys involved and dont want to hear things second or third hand. Lets stick to the facts.

 

[Sig_Des]

RIP to the fallen, and speedy recovery to the injured.

Let's keep them and their families in our prayers

 

[RangerRay]

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

perhaps best to put that in another thread new or ongoing.

 

[combat_medic]

Crash of Canadian armoured vehicle kills one, injures seven in Kandahar
Updated at 11:57 on March 2, 2006, EST.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - A Canadian soldier died and six others were injured Thursday when an armoured vehicle rolled just outside Kandahar city limits while on routine patrol. An Afghan interpreter was also hurt in the crash.

Two critically injured soldiers will be evacuated to Landstuhl, Germany, according to Col. Tom Putt, deputy commander of Canadian troops in Afghanistan. A sophisticated U.S.-run hospital there treats injured soldiers from Afghanistan.

One of the wounded emerged from surgery late Thursday afternoon at the hospital at Kandahar Airfield, a medical facility run by Canadian doctors. "A Canadian surgical team looked after the soldiers," Putt said in an interview.

"Unfortunately, one soldier was in grave condition and he did not make it."

The dead soldier was identified in a news release as Cpl. Paul Davis, of Bridgewater, N.S.

Seriously injured soldiers are Master-Cpl. Timothy Wilson of Grande Prairie, Alta., and Pte. Miguel Chavez, originally of San Salvador, El Salvador.

Other injured soldiers are Pte. Nathan Justice of Dauphin, Man., Pte. Mark Taylor of Prince Rupert, B.C., Pte. Thomas Wong of Edmonton and Sgt. Darren Haggerty of London, Ont. The injured Afghan interpreter is a civilian.

"Five of the injured, including the interpreter, are in stable condition at this time," the release said. "All next of kin have been notified."

Officials say they cannot confirm the cause of the accident, but soldiers said an Afghan civilian car approached the armoured vehicle just before it rolled off the road. The convoy was en route from Kandahar Airfield to meet Afghan officials.

An investigation was launched but the casualties were "believed to be the result of a vehicle accident," said John Morris, a spokesman for the Department of National Defence in Ottawa.

The bulk of the soldiers involved in the accident are based in Shilo, Man., and are from Company B of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry battle group in Afghanistan.

At least 10 soldiers from that unit have been killed or injured in the past three weeks, mainly in vehicle accidents.

After the crash Thursday, four of the injured were airlifted by a U.S. Blackhawk helicopter from the site of the accident, while the others were taken in an ambulance.

All but one of the injured was eventually transported to Kandahar Airfield, the large U.S.-run military base where most of Canada's 2,200 troops in southern Afghanistan are based.

"The care for those wounded, of course, is first in our mind right now," Gen. Rick Hillier, the chief of defence staff, said in a television interview.

The crash appears similar to one last November in which a Canadian soldier was killed and four were injured. They were also travelling in an armoured vehicle that ran off a road near Kandahar.

The soldier killed Thursday is the 10th Canadian to die in Afghanistan since 2002.

Four soldiers were killed by friendly fire, two by anti-tank mines, one at the hands of a suicide bomber, one in another road accident, and a senior Canadian diplomat was killed in January in a suicide bomb attack.

The 2,200 Canadian troops in southern Afghanistan are led by Canadian Brig.-Gen. David Fraser, who took command of a multinational brigade in the Kandahar region earlier this week.

-

Ten Canadians have been killed in Afghanistan since 2002:

-Four Canadian soldiers were killed and eight were wounded in a friendly-fire incident near Kandahar on April 18, 2002. A U.S. F-16 fighter jet mistakenly bombed the Canadians, who were on an training exercise.

-On Jan. 27, 2004, one Canadian soldier was killed in a suicide bombing while on patrol near Kabul. Three others were wounded.

-Two soldiers were killed and three were injured in a roadside bombing southwest of Kabul on Oct. 2, 2003.

-One soldier was killed and four were injured when the armoured vehicle they were travelling in rolled over on Nov. 24, 2005, near Kandahar.

-A Canadian diplomat was killed and three Canadian soldiers were injured in a suicide bombing near Kandahar on Jan. 15, 2006.

-A Canadian soldier was killed and seven others were injured when their armoured vehicle ran off a road in the Kandahar area.

The Canadian Press, 2006

 

[043]

RIP Cpl. Paul James Davis.

Crash kills one Cdn, injures 7 in Afghanistan
Updated Thu. Mar. 2 2006 12:05 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A Canadian soldier was killed Thursday after an armoured vehicle crashed with a civilian vehicle near Kandahar. Six other soldiers and an Afghan interpreter were also hurt in the crash.

The dead soldier was identified as Cpl. Paul James Davis, of Bridgewater, N.S.

Two soldiers are in critical condition -- Master-Cpl. Timothy Wilson of Grande Prairie, Alta., and Pte. Miguel Chavez, originally of El Salvador.

Chavez will be transported to the U.S. military hospital in Landstuhl, Germany, later tonight, according to Col. Tom Putt, deputy commander of Canadian troops in Afghanistan.

Wilson and Sgt. Darren Haggerty of London, Ont., will also soon be evacuated there, Putt added.

The other injured soldiers -- in stable condition -- were identified as Pte. Nathan Justice of Dauphin, Manitoba; Pte. Mark Taylor of Prince Rupert, B.C.; and Pte. Thomas Wong of Edmonton. The injured Afghan interpreter is a civilian.

Most of the soldiers involved in the accident are based in Shilo, Manitoba. They are from B-Company of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry battle group in Afghanistan.

In the past three weeks, at least 10 soldiers from that unit have been killed or injured, mainly in vehicle accidents.

The LAV III vehicle was part of a routine patrol en route from Kandahar Airfield to meet Afghan officials. It hit a civilian vehicle, about seven kilometres west of Kandahar, and tipped over.

After the crash Thursday, four soldiers were airlifted from the site, and The other casualties were taken by ground ambulance and the others were taken in ambulance.

"The care for those wounded, of course, is first in our mind right now,'' Gen. Rick Hillier, Canada's chief of defence staff, told CTV.

Deadly accidents

Thursday's crash appears to be similar to the one in November, in which a Canadian soldier was killed and four others wounded when an armoured vehicle also ran off a road near Kandahar.

Hillier said that over the past 10 to 15 years of operations around the world, accidents have been the major cause of Canadian casualties.

"We learn from every event, and try to reduce them. But history shows that accidents are the cause of our casualties in most parts."

CTV's Matt McClure, who has ridden in a LAV III, said it has great blast protection, and is outfitted with excellent weaponry, cameras and night vision.

"There is one criticism, however. With all of the heavy armour that these vehicles currently have on them, it does make them top heavy and prone to tip overs," McClure told CTV's Newsnet.

Hillier admits that the vehicle can be top-heavy, but says it is perfect for the Afghan environment, where the roads aren't always paved.

"The fighting vehicle that we have, built in Canada by the way, is the best fighting vehicle in the world. And we are convinced of that and we believe that."

LaFlamme also pointed out that these vehicles have to travel at great speeds to avoid remotely-detonated devices. They also have to move close together so that another vehicle doesn't try and intercept.

Add to that the dust and sand that is kicked up, and it makes things even more dangerous.

"It is almost impossible to see to warn the guys inside: "Hold on, because we are coming up against a pothole or a sharp curve or we have to put the brakes on quickly'," LaFlamme told Newsnet.

"It is almost impossible to do that because the visibility at certain times is just so low."

A dangerous mission

This latest fatality brings to 10 the number of Canadians killed in Afghanistan since 2002.

That includes four soldiers killed by U.S. Friendly fire, and a senior Canadian diplomat killed in January in a suicide bombing. Anti-tank mines killed two soldiers, a suicide bomber killed one, and one died in another road accident.

Canada's role in Afghanistan has increased recently, as Brig.-Gen. David Fraser has assumed command of a new multinational force that includes 2,200 Canadians. They will patrol six provinces in the southern part of Afghanistan.

On Wednesday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper pledged unwavering support to Canadian Forces in Afghanistan and issued a stern rebuke to Liberal MPs who have questioned Canada's role in the war-torn nation.

"You do not send men and women into harm's way on a dangerous mission with the support of our party and other Canadians, and then decide when they're over there that you're not sure you should have sent them. That's not the way this government is going to behave," Harper said.

 

[geo]

A couple of commentaries I recently received from a friend in Kandahar.........

Movement outside the wire is becoming more and more common, although never 'routine'.  The drivers are challenged as the transportation network here has not been upgraded since, say, the ninth century BC.   This is supposed to have been deliberate policy for all Afghan governments for centuries as it was thought to discourage invasion.  This says something, I think, about both the terrain and the Afghan mentality.  In all, there are less than 30 km of railway of any kind in the entire country!  One of the two 'major highways' shown on the national map could be used for 4x4 competition - a rutted, boulder-strewn, washed-out, gravel track at times approaching a 20 percent grade.  Most self-respecting Canadian farmers would avoid it with their tractors.  Vehicles regularly come back cracked and broken just from having driven one trip on it.  We won't discuss the lesser roads just now... Welcome to Afghanistan - please set your watches back two millennia.


New jeeps being distributed in Kandahar. They are right-hand drive Toyota 4x4.  It's small enough that you suspect it may have been made for the Japanese market; certainly all the markings (less the gauges) are in Japanese ideograms.  There is a specific drill to squeeze into it - left leg, left arm and head first, followed by the behind, then the shoulders, then the rest. if you try to get into it normally, without consciously thinking, you wind up struggling and squirming for close to a minute.  Some Brits expressed a certain admiration one time when he tried it - for his command of the other official language here (invective and profanity).  If, of course, you happen to be wearing a flak jacket (which must be worn any time you go out), it gets even more fun - rather like trying to stuff a marshmallow through a keyhole. Oddly enough, once you’re in, it's not too bad.

Being right-hand drive, it has all of the controls reversed, which affords troops endless amusement when they ride with you - every time you turn, youy end up trying to signal with the windshield wiper control.  Old habits die hard...  starting to attract international attention as we weave way through the potholes - the shrieks of incontinent hilarity turn heads for miles around.

Am told that my driving compares favourably with Rick Mercer's stand-up commentary.  Well, I have big shoulders and it's a great deal better than walking the 15-20 + kms a day.  A little laughter is not a bad thing anyway.
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There is now a contest as to which nation has the worst drivers on camp. The French are intramural champions by all accounts but the International Grand Champions still are the Afghans. Stop signs, speed limits, wandering pedestrians, larger vehicles, potholes, speed bumps and No Passing zones are apparently viewed as challenges to one's machismo and are ignored with a well-nigh religious fervour. It makes life interesting.  But getting back to the Afghans, they continue
to amaze - these are one tough people.  
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An interesting datum - more and more of the pointy-enders are taking off the DND licence plates from their armoured vehicles and putting them back on reversed so that only the metal back shows.  Evidently, they are not happy about the highly reflective nature of the plates while out on patrol...
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