Jetstream - The Series

[aesop081]

Anyway I will leave it at that as someone with a lot of experience has made the choice to keep him.

You should have left it there to begin with. You ,as a Taxpayer, pay those people to make the right decision. Enjoy the show and leave the rest to the professionals.

 

[Elwood]

I am not saying throw him out of the military. What I am saying is he is a qualified pilot. Why not have him flying hercs or something?

After the common pilot training Phase II in Moose Jaw, pilots selected to train on jets complete Phase IIB and Phase III unlike other pilots who are streamed into helo or muti. Mike's already been doing a lot of training getting ready for jets, so making him go helo or multi at this point isn't cost-effective from a taxpayer's point of view.

Episode 3 mentions that Mike has been doing G-manouvers in his fighter lead-in course. Also, the reason for his failing the centrifuge was a mental block... not due to any physical problems. Giving him time to get ready for it was the best solution.

Did anyone notice that in every centrifuge test, Mike always took such shallow breaths, and he never listened to the instructor when to breathe in Episode 1? I know he's passed everything now, but I still think that if he breathed properly the first time, he wouldv'e passed it.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Max, isn't the G-course done on 2B different from the centrifuge done at 410? I think you go there twice. But I could be wrong...

That's the same one if you go fly the Hawk.  We did everything they did.  There are 2 centrifuge profiles : one for CT-156 and CT-114 pilots and one for CT-155 and CT-188 pilots.  If you go Jets, you do the CT-155 profile since you fly the Hawk.  You don't have to do it ever again after that.

Max

 

[evil drunken-fool]

You should have left it there to begin with. You ,as a Taxpayer, pay those people to make the right decision. Enjoy the show and leave the rest to the professionals.

I just think there should be a standard for pilots on the centrifuge. If someone of experience wants to give him another shot then so be it.

However, I do pay them to make the right decision, but they are also accountable to the taxpayer.

 

[aesop081]

However, I do pay them to make the right decision, but they are also accountable to the taxpayer.

For the love of all that is good an pure  :

I want you to report to 410 Sqn tomorow morning so that you can be the CO there and make those decisions yourself. You are obviously incapable of trusting professionals to operate within the rules and regulations set out for them by the GoC. I suggest you also call the office of the auditor general if you feel you have been cheated out of your tax money or if you feel 410 Sqn is not operating to your standard.

Its easy to second guess from your living room couch.

 

[evil drunken-fool]

For the love of all that is good an pure  :

I want you to report to 410 Sqn tomorow morning so that you can be the CO there and make those decisions yourself. You are obviously incapable of trusting professionals to operate within the rules and regulations set out for them by the GoC. I suggest you also call the office of the auditor general if you feel you have been cheated out of your tax money or if you feel 410 Sqn is not operating to your standard.

Its easy to second guess from your living room couch.

I am not second guessing, I said I respected the decision that was made.

I just want to know why there can't be some sort of standard put on the centrifuge.

 

[aesop081]

I just want to know why there can't be some sort of standard put on the centrifuge.

:brickwall:

There IS. Did  you not watch the show ? They gave him several chances to pass the centrifuge and he did not. The CO of 410 Sqn decided that he could not safely continue with the course and Lewis was removed.

 

[SupersonicMax]

I am not second guessing, I said I respected the decision that was made.

I just want to know why there can't be some sort of standard put on the centrifuge.

The centrifuge, most people that did it will concur, is very very different than the real plane.  The G's seem much more heavier than in the plane.  On course here, we pulled regularly 6Gs without the G pants during the advanced clearhood phase and I didn't have any problem keeping the vision.  In the centrifuge, I really had to work at it.

Mike Lewis was an instructor on the course I'm doing now.  He pulled Gs before and never had a problem (That I know of).  He was even Pilot in Command while he was doing those manoevers. 

Max

 

[evil drunken-fool]

:brickwall:

There IS. Did  you not watch the show ? They gave him several chances to pass the centrifuge and he did not. The CO of 410 Sqn decided that he could not safely continue with the course and Lewis was removed.

So there is an established standard and it was broken?  What is the point of a standard then?

 

[SupersonicMax]

:brickwall:

There IS. Did  you not watch the show ? They gave him several chances to pass the centrifuge and he did not. The CO of 410 Sqn decided that he could not safely continue with the course and Lewis was removed.

CDN Aviator, as I said, the centrifuge isn't an elimination course.

 

[aesop081]

CDN Aviator, as I said, the centrifuge isn't an elimination course.

I know but this guy is too thick to understand.........

 

[evil drunken-fool]

I know but this guy is too thick to understand.........

Now you are insulting me?

I understood that when it was pointed out earlier and then you said in regards to a standard for the centrifuge, and I quote, "There IS. Did  you not watch the show ? They gave him several chances to pass the centrifuge and he did not."

 

[aesop081]

Pay attention now, i'm going to say this in both official languages :

The commanding officer of 410 Sqn removed Captain Lewis from the course as he felt that he could not safely continue without completeing the centrifuge to 6G for 15 seconds.

Is that standard enough for you ?


L'officier commandant de l'escadron 410 a enlever le capitaine Lewis du cours car il n'avais pas confience qu'il pouvait completer le cours securitairement sans complete 6G pour 15 secondes dans la centrifuge.

Es-ce que c'est un standard sufisant pout toi ?

 

[Elwood]

Steel Horse, you're making a dumb argument with experienced people.  

Chill out dude. Enjoy the show and this site.

 

[aesop081]

Steel Horse, you're making a dumb argument with experienced people.  

For clarity, i'm not an F-18 pilot.......i'm not even a pilot.

But the AF did pay for a few holliday Inn express rooms for me

 

[Loachman]

Anyway I will leave it at that as someone with a lot of experience has made the choice to keep him.

Not that you have any say in the matter, but...

This is precisely the function of the OTU staff - CO, Standards Guys, Instructors, Course Director, Flight Surgeon, etcetera.

You could see how long it took to reach the decision, and how much they wrestled with it.

Occasionally, some intelligent discretion has to be applied rather than straight cut-and-dried performance criteria.

Is it really a good idea to cut somebody with experience and a lot of potential when reasonable corrective measures can be applied at a fraction of the cost invested to date? Can we afford to do that when we are extremely short of pilots?

I have been on both sides of this situation, both as a student with some difficulties (and, yes, there were a couple of times during training when I "could have" killed somebody, depending upon one's definition of "could have" and how much one wanted to hype it up for a television programme) and as a senior instructor agonizing, with other instructors and DCO/CI, whether or not a particular borderline student should pass or fail.

The blunt responses that you received were due to the way you worded your posts, including the one from which I quoted . A reasonable question would have received a reasonable answer, but stating what should have been done in front of several of us who have direct experience with this proven system tends to cause the type of reaction that you got. From what I have seen, the fighter pilot training system is doing what it is supposed to do - developing effective fighter pilots for the CF.

Now, having defended something fighter-related again, I once more feel in need of a shower.

 

[evil drunken-fool]

Pay attention now, i'm going to say this in both official languages :

The commanding officer of 410 Sqn removed Captain Lewis from the course as he felt that he could not safely continue without completeing the centrifuge to 6G for 15 seconds.

Is that standard enough for you ?


L'officier commandant de l'escadron 410 a enlever le capitaine Lewis du cours car il n'avais pas confience qu'il pouvait completer le cours securitairement sans complete 6G pour 15 secondes dans la centrifuge.

Es-ce que c'est un standard sufisant pout toi ?

Fine, I will leave it alone.  I just don't understand the situation.  I am trying to get a better understanding of it.

I just don't like being talk to as an idiot either.

And don't just accept something because that's the way it has always been, a new set of eyes can always add something to a situation. They bring fresh ideas to the table that should not be overlooked.

 

[Strike]

Now, having defended something fighter-related again, I once more feel in need of a shower.

I feel your pain...

i'm not even a pilot.

But the AF did pay for a few holliday Inn express rooms for me

I need to get a patch for my helmet that says "I'm not a pilot...but I play one on tv!"

A good way to freak out the guys in back! (When I get back there anyway.)

I'm watching the show now.  Taped it last night.

 

[aesop081]

I just don't like being talk to as an idiot either.

Stop posting like one

And don't just accept something because that's the way it has always been, a new set of eyes can always add something to a situation. They bring fresh ideas to the table that should not be overlooked.

And time-proven ways of doing buisness dont get discarded because "thats the way its always been". Why cant you just trust the people whos job it is to do this ?

I need to get a patch for my helmet that says "I'm not a pilot...but I play one on tv!"

I've seen one of those when i was at 403 Sqn

 

[evil drunken-fool]

Stop posting like one

Listen, you and others answered all the questions I wanted answered.
I like your blunt answers.

Just don't add in the little comments and remarks and I will be happy. No need to make things personnel.