Jets over cities?
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It all depends on where you are and what that plane was doing. Most high density airports have a noise abatement plan that attempts to reduce the noise complaints. In Toronto, aircraft are prohibited from taking off or landing at the airport between specified hours (ie 0100-0500) and also have specific routes to follow when departing the aerodrome (usually the loudest time is on takeoff and the subsequent initial climb).
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1000ft above the highest obstacle, unless there's noise abatement procedures in place like Zoomie mentioned. We regularly fly over the city of Halifax at 1000ft, though a Sea King is probably a little quieter than a jet.
Where are you located? If it's a military base, that's just the sound of freedom, it should be music to your ears!
Where are you located? If it's a military base, that's just the sound of freedom, it should be music to your ears!
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I am awakened just about every Sat and Sun by 8AM F-18 launches. The novelty has almost worn off though.
Recently after a couple weeks vacation they woke me up and I forgot where I was started grumbling "#$%$% that jet is low, doesn't sound like an Airbus either, should probably go have a look" Then I opened my eyes and realised I was back in Bag-town and the holiday was done.
Recently after a couple weeks vacation they woke me up and I forgot where I was started grumbling "#$%$% that jet is low, doesn't sound like an Airbus either, should probably go have a look" Then I opened my eyes and realised I was back in Bag-town and the holiday was done.
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aesop081
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Inch said:
Isn't it highest obstacle rounded to the next hundred feet plus 1000 (within 5NM of track) ?
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aesop081 said:
I think you're thinking IFR dude. IFR is 1000ft above the highest obstacle within 5nm of track unless you're in a designated mountainous region (1500ft east and 2000ft out west), VFR is 500ft and I don't remember what the lateral distance is, I'd have to confirm with the BGA100 tomorrow. In any case, I know for sure it's 1000ft above built up areas, unless you're taking off or landing.
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VFR is 1000' above highest obstacle within 2000' horizontally.
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Fancy, learn somehting new everyday.....
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condor888000 said:
It could very well be the same rules condor, those numbers sound familiar. I just don't recall off hand.
Here's the the exerpt from Part 1 of the CARS.....
102.01 These Regulations do not apply in respect of:
(a) military aircraft of Her Majesty in right of Canada when they are being manoeuvred under the authority of the Minister of National Defence;
(b) military aircraft of a country other than Canada, to the extent that the Minister of National Defence has exempted them from the application of these Regulations pursuant to subsection 5.9(2) of the Act; or
(c) model aircraft, rockets, hovercraft or wing-in-ground-effect machines, unless otherwise indicated in the Regulations.
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aesop081
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Inch said:
Yeah, thats what i was thinking of...just realised it afterwards ;D
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condor888000 said:
FWIW, this is CARS for airplanes over built-up areas ... helicopters is 1000' vertical & 500' horizontal ... also CARS is 500' vertical for any aircraft over non-populous areas & open water, barring other restrictions (i.e., fur farms) ...
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I_am_John_Galt said:
I'll confirm the restrictions on VFR over land flight tomorrow. 500' does not apply to us, we can do VFR nav at 250ft (Griffons can go even lower, like 15ft) and we routinely fly at 40' over the ocean and Halifax Harbour, all of which is legal.
There are a few differences between the CARS and the B-GA, such as approach bans. When there's an approach ban on at an airport, civilian operators are not permitted to shoot an approach to that airport, we can. We're also allowed to fly below 500ft for reasons other than take offs and landings (see the para above). We (helicopters) also do our circuits at 500ft vice 1000ft.
"I miss the old 707"
Yep, and the Starfighters coming over the 3 Mech Cdo button in Baden. They would come over in fives, and split. They would turn 90 degrees on their side and off they would go, the rear two, then the middle two, then the lead. It was cool.
I DON'T miss living at the first Southwest OP at Kandahar Airfield. You could throw a canteen cup and hit the wingtip of the landing C-17s, Hercs, and Cubs. Loud. Fun to visit it, murder when you live in it 24 hours a day.
Tom
Yep, and the Starfighters coming over the 3 Mech Cdo button in Baden. They would come over in fives, and split. They would turn 90 degrees on their side and off they would go, the rear two, then the middle two, then the lead. It was cool.
I DON'T miss living at the first Southwest OP at Kandahar Airfield. You could throw a canteen cup and hit the wingtip of the landing C-17s, Hercs, and Cubs. Loud. Fun to visit it, murder when you live in it 24 hours a day.
Tom
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Ok, here it goes.
VFR non-built up areas
1. Fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft shall not be flown below 1 000 feet and 500 feet respectively AGL or water except when:
a. taking off, landing or conducting an authorized approach to an aerodrome;
b. low flying has been authorized for prescribed low flying areas, or over specifically prescribed low level, cross country routes that have been flight checked and environmentally assessed (in accordance with CFAO 36 50 and 1 CAD Orders Vol 2 (Flying Orders) Art 2-002 Section 5), or over land or water areas designated by the Commander 1 CAD for operational or operational training flights;
c. required by weather deteriorating to below minimum conditions on a VFR flight in order to maintain vertical separation from cloud while initiating alternative action. Then fixed wing aircraft are authorized to fly not below 500 feet and rotary wing aircraft not below 300 feet AGL or water; or
d. SVFR is authorized. Chapter 7, para-graph 3 and Figures 7 1 and 7 2 or higher established 1 CAD limits then apply.
VFR over built up areas
2. An aircraft shall not be flown over the built up area of any city, town or settlement, or over an open air assembly of persons, except at an altitude that will permit, in the event of an emergency, the landing of the aircraft without undue hazard to persons or property on the surfaces. Such altitude shall not in any case be less than 1 000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2 000 feet from the aircraft , except when taking off, landing, conducting an authorized low approach to an aerodrome, or when authorized by the Commander 1 CAD.
Now the fun stuff.....
Low flying
4. An aircraft shall not be flown lower than 50 feet over all obstacles that are within 200 feet of the track of the aircraft when flight is authorized for:
a. practice forced or precautionary landing approaches over a prescribed forced landing area; or
b. a low flying exercise over a prescribed low flying area.
5. Aircraft authorized to be flown over specifically selected low level, cross country routes shall not be flown lower than 250 feet above all obstacles that are within 500 feet of track
6. The minima prescribed in Chapter 5, paragraphs 4 and 5, shall not apply to aircraft engaged in operational flying training or operational exercises in areas specifically authorized for such flights by the Commander 1 CAD. The altitudes at which these flights will be conducted shall be set by the Commander 1 CAD and published in 1 CAD Orders.
1 CAD orders set out some even crazier limits. Maritime Helicopters in day VMC can manoeuvre at 40ft over the water while Tactical Helicopters are cleared down to 4ft (that's four feet) in Tactical Low Flying Areas.
A wee bit different than what's permitted in the CARS.
*edited to separate the rules and my commentary
VFR non-built up areas
1. Fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft shall not be flown below 1 000 feet and 500 feet respectively AGL or water except when:
a. taking off, landing or conducting an authorized approach to an aerodrome;
b. low flying has been authorized for prescribed low flying areas, or over specifically prescribed low level, cross country routes that have been flight checked and environmentally assessed (in accordance with CFAO 36 50 and 1 CAD Orders Vol 2 (Flying Orders) Art 2-002 Section 5), or over land or water areas designated by the Commander 1 CAD for operational or operational training flights;
c. required by weather deteriorating to below minimum conditions on a VFR flight in order to maintain vertical separation from cloud while initiating alternative action. Then fixed wing aircraft are authorized to fly not below 500 feet and rotary wing aircraft not below 300 feet AGL or water; or
d. SVFR is authorized. Chapter 7, para-graph 3 and Figures 7 1 and 7 2 or higher established 1 CAD limits then apply.
VFR over built up areas
2. An aircraft shall not be flown over the built up area of any city, town or settlement, or over an open air assembly of persons, except at an altitude that will permit, in the event of an emergency, the landing of the aircraft without undue hazard to persons or property on the surfaces. Such altitude shall not in any case be less than 1 000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2 000 feet from the aircraft , except when taking off, landing, conducting an authorized low approach to an aerodrome, or when authorized by the Commander 1 CAD.
Now the fun stuff.....
Low flying
4. An aircraft shall not be flown lower than 50 feet over all obstacles that are within 200 feet of the track of the aircraft when flight is authorized for:
a. practice forced or precautionary landing approaches over a prescribed forced landing area; or
b. a low flying exercise over a prescribed low flying area.
5. Aircraft authorized to be flown over specifically selected low level, cross country routes shall not be flown lower than 250 feet above all obstacles that are within 500 feet of track
6. The minima prescribed in Chapter 5, paragraphs 4 and 5, shall not apply to aircraft engaged in operational flying training or operational exercises in areas specifically authorized for such flights by the Commander 1 CAD. The altitudes at which these flights will be conducted shall be set by the Commander 1 CAD and published in 1 CAD Orders.
1 CAD orders set out some even crazier limits. Maritime Helicopters in day VMC can manoeuvre at 40ft over the water while Tactical Helicopters are cleared down to 4ft (that's four feet) in Tactical Low Flying Areas.
A wee bit different than what's permitted in the CARS.
*edited to separate the rules and my commentary
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Inch said:
And so it is ... I stand corrected.
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