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Its all Greek to Quebec

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jed
  • Start date Start date
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Agreed, but maybe a good life lesson that needs to be hammered home. If you don't pay attention to any organiztion you are a part off, the idiots and radicals will take it over. 

Many students are finding this out already as squads of Brownshirts move into University campuses and disrupt classes:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/16/masked-protesters-hunt-for-scabs-in-montreal-university-classes/

    Masked protesters hunt for ‘scabs’ in Montreal university classes
    Myles Dolphin, The Canadian Press  May 16, 2012 – 12:19 PM ET | Last Updated: May 16, 2012 4:11 PM ET
     
    MONTREAL & QUEBEC CITY — Protesters stormed into a university, many of them with their faces covered by masks, moving through the hallways in a hunt for classes to disrupt.

    The chaotic scene, which made some international news reports, was orchestrated Wednesday by protesters determined to enforce their declared strikes. They resented the fact that some students had used legal injunctions to return to school.

    With a list of scheduled classes in hand, about 100 protesters marched through pavilions at the Université du Québec à Montreal and stopped at a few choice spots along the way.

    Making noise with drums and whistles, they moved through the main UQAM building, splitting up on a number of occasions as they searched for ongoing classes. A masked protester would yell out marching orders for the next target, such as: “Pavilion M!”

    Paul Chiasson/The Canadian Press
    A few of the 100 or so protesters who marched through the Université du Québec à Montreal on May 16, 2012, disrupting classes and yelling “Scab!”
    A few dozen entered a contract-law class at one point.

    Having marched upstairs to that ninth-storey classroom, the group began flicking on and off the lights; they repeatedly yelled, “Scab!” at the stunned group of students seated inside.

    A few men even grabbed two female students by the arm, telling them to get out. Some of the intruders jumped on desks and tables.

    The teacher and students shouted at them to leave. But during the 10-minute standoff, most of the students eventually gave up and left the classroom, as did the teacher.

    By the time it was over, there were chairs and tables knocked over. On a wall of the classroom there was a spray-painted message, written in red: “On strike, dammit!”

    The protesters then worked their way toward another class. They had marched east on De Maisonneuve Boulevard for a few minutes before they found their target: 1001 De Maisonneuve East. They chanted, “Who owns UQAM? We own UQAM!”

    None of the protesters were carrying weapons. They did, however, get into students’ faces, shouting at them, shoving their books and climbing on desks.

    Protesters make their way through the hall of a Montreal university to disrupt classes, May 16, 2012. “They’re trying to make us afraid to go back to class,” one student said.
    There were clearly differences of opinion among the protesters. When one masked man grabbed a desk and flipped it over, another looked at him and said: “You’re an idiot.”

    Some annoyed students reported the incident to police. Others snapped photos of the intruders with their cellphone cameras.

    At one point, while a student was talking to a police officer outside the school, several demonstrators who were watching shouted: “Scabs!” But she kept chatting with police.

    “They’re trying to make us afraid to go back to class,” UQAM law student Celina Toia said after talking to the officers, who were sitting in a van.

    “Teachers are more than willing to give their classes, so they’re trying to make it extremely inconvenient. They’re threatening us and they’re creating a hostile environment for us.”

    The student unrest has lasted 14 weeks. Only one-third of Quebec students are actually on declared strikes, but the conflict has created considerable social disorder.

    Wednesday’s events were notable — in that they were actually taking place inside classrooms, in face-to-face confrontations.

    The social conflict so far has consisted of different sides fighting in court, and in the court of public opinion. It has also seen scuffles between police and protesters, but the events inside the classrooms Wednesday came as a shock.

    The crisis appears headed for a crescendo.

    The provincial cabinet was meeting Wednesday to discuss the possibility of adopting emergency legislation — a law reportedly laden with financial penalties for people who have played a role in encouraging the ongoing disruption.

    Premier Jean Charest and his ministers were assembled in Quebec City. On her way into the meeting, new Education Minister Michelle Courchesne said she had noticed a hardening of demands from student leaders.

    That remark came as a surprise to the student groups, who had emerged from a meeting with Courchesne the previous night saying they had had a constructive dialogue.

    POSITION ‘HARDENING’

    While student representatives seemed optimistic that a tuition hike moratorium was possible after meeting on Tuesday with Michelle Courchesne, Quebec’s new education minister, the minister had another reading.

    “On their side I sensed a hardening of their position,” Courchesne told reporters Wednesday. “That was very clear.

    “I will report to the cabinet soon. The government will judge what decision to make then.”

    In a Twitter message, the Coalition large de l’association pour une solidarite syndicale etudiante (CLASSE) replied to Courchesne, “It isn’t the position of the students that has hardened, it is the position of the government that has hardened.”

    Asked if a legislated end to the tuition-hike conflict was possible, Courchesne replied, “Don’t conclude on any scenario.”

    The minister was on her way to National Assembly question period, to be followed by a meeting of the Quebec cabinet.

    Asked for an indication of what he would do, Premier Jean Charest joked with reporters: “Are you lacking affection?”

    The student representatives told reporters their meeting with Courchesne went well and that she listened to them.

    “The tone was correct, honestly,” Courchesne said. “Their position didn’t really change. I didn’t have a view of any kind of compromise.”

    With files from Kevin Dougherty, Montreal Gazette, and a file from Andy Blatchford, The Canadian Press
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Mr. Charest should pull all funding for the Universities starting immediatelly and watch the Profs., et al, wrestle with this student uprising.........

I don't know if the univerisities/CEGEPs are necessary the ones to blame. What Charest should do is declare that all those students who have participated in the riots forfeit their tuition and the forfeited tuition used to pay for police overtime. street damage, etc. As for the those professors who have defied court orders should be charged with contempt of court and fined and possibly removed from there positions.
 
Retired AF Guy said:
I don't know if the univerisities/CEGEPs are necessary the ones to blame. What Charest should do is declare that all those students who have participated in the riots forfeit their tuition and the forfeited tuition used to pay for police overtime. street damage, etc. As for the those professors who have defied court orders should be charged with contempt of court and fined and possibly removed from there positions.

That would require a level headed response to a very simple situation though. It would be much better to over complicate things and worry more about re-election than running the province.
 
Allow the student that still go to school to graduate, or pass the year.

If you were out protesting? You fail the year due to lack of credit.

Your application for next year will not be accepted as, for one, you failed the previous year. You'll have to move to another province if you want to continue your education.

No guarantee you'll be accepted there either.

No degrees, no job prospects. No more socialist teachers from the ranks of the disenfranchised.
 
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2012/06/20120614-080831.html

Is Quebec to Canada what Greece is to Europe? The question is becoming more and more relevant.
In fact, the parallels are frightening.

Two years ago, the Quebec Ministry of Finance did a ranking of the most indebted countries in the developed world. If Quebec were independent, with its debt-to-GDP ratio at 94%, it would have been the fifth worst, just behind Greece in third place at 102.6%! Canada's ratio was 69.7%.

Now that the Greeks have hit the wall, it's payback time for them. Last year, the country's GDP dropped by 6.9% and its unemployment rate skyrocketed to 17.7%. This year, the GDP is expected to drop by another 5% and unemployment to reach over 19%.

The country's deficit and debt are also out of control.

Another similarity is the perception of the population vis-a-vis the corruption of their political and economic systems. Ninety-eight per cent of Greeks believe corruption has eroded their country. According to a Leger Marketing poll held last April, 85% of Quebecers now believe that their government and the whole construction industry are corrupted.

Greece now needs to adopt an austerity plan if it wants the European Union and the International Monetary Fund to provide them with a $130-billion bailout.

An article basically rehashing what has been discussed here, but relevant so here it is. More on link.
 
Sythen said:
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2012/06/20120614-080831.html

An article basically rehashing what has been discussed here, but relevant so here it is. More on link.

1. Gotta love the almost smug triumphant attitude of the Sun in general... As if this isn't going to bite *all* of us in the ass. Their attitude towards it just grates.

2. They have this irritating, and dishonest habit of trying to group all Quebec protesters in as if they were one. The student issue was the catalyst, but they refuse to acknowledge the very separate enactment of Loi 78, and the unrest resultant therefrom. I know some *very* principle and conservative people who had nothing but contempt on the student tuition issue, and yet are in support of other protesters based on the substantial liberty issues inherent in the stupid legislation the province has passed.

As always, the Sun seems to be pandering to the lowest common denominator in their coverage of social iszues...
 
Brihard said:
1. Gotta love the almost smug triumphant attitude of the Sun in general... As if this isn't going to bite *all* of us in the ass. Their attitude towards it just grates.

2. They have this irritating, and dishonest habit of trying to group all Quebec protesters in as if they were one. The student issue was the catalyst, but they refuse to acknowledge the very separate enactment of Loi 78, and the unrest resultant therefrom. I know some *very* principle and conservative people who had nothing but contempt on the student tuition issue, and yet are in support of other protesters based on the substantial liberty issues inherent in the stupid legislation the province has passed.

As always, the Sun seems to be pandering to the lowest common denominator in their coverage of social iszues...

The Sun simply does for the right what the Grey Globe and the Red Star do for the left. Love them or hate them, they balance things so we don't get innundated with socialist propaganda only.
 
recceguy said:
The Sun simply does for the right what the Grey Globe and the Red Star do for the left. Love them or hate them, they balance things so we don't get innundated with socialist propaganda only.

The nice thing about the Globe, National Post, etc is that they at least assume a modicum of intelligence possessed by their readers. The Sun makes for good 'lunch room table at Home Depot' reading (at least that was the only time I ever read it), but it's got no depth once the sound byte is achieved.
 
Brihard said:
The Sun makes for good 'lunch room table at Home Depot' reading (at least that was the only time I ever read it), but it's got no depth once the sound byte is achieved.

As much as you may want to denigrate the Sun Newspapers/News TV Network, the reality is that they appeal to a sizable segment of the Canadian population. Example, in my circle of friends, I'm the only one that reads the National Post and one other reads the Toronto Star; everyone else reads the Toronto/Ottawa Sun. Not very scientific I know, but, the reality is that most Canadians don't have the time or inclination to read/watch in depth articles/programs as to what is happening in Canada or around the world. Remember the Sun Newspapers are tabloids and are very good at pushing those hot button issues that appeal to the general public. The same for the Sun TV News Network.
 
I'm not arguing that they don't have some *appeal*, and I certainly don't disagree that they're quick to be the first ones to mash whatever button is 'hot'. But 'tabloid' is right, both in print and TV form. They're generally infotainment, seldom journalism.
 
Retired AF Guy said:
As much as you may want to denigrate the Sun Newspapers/News TV Network, the reality is that they appeal to a sizable segment of the Canadian population.
That certainly isn't a reason to cease ridiculing. "Reality" TV, mullets, and not giving students a grade of zero also appeal to some people.
 
Brihard said:
I'm not arguing that they don't have some *appeal*, and I certainly don't disagree that they're quick to be the first ones to mash whatever button is 'hot'. But 'tabloid' is right, both in print and TV form. They're generally infotainment, seldom journalism.

Precisely. It's interesting that some people consider that to be a balance to actual journalism. And then have to suggest that because actual journalism tends to appear to a more educated subset of the populace it therefore must be some sort of liberal plot or "socialist propaganda".  :facepalm: That's not to suggest that one shouldn't read news in general critically, but conflating the Sun with news is often (but not always) a stretch. Heck, the National Post leans right but at least seems to employ journalists and produce a half-decent product.
 
>They're generally infotainment, seldom journalism.

That applies to 90+% of media, across the board.  Objective (no spin, full balance) reporting, particularly of important - hence contentious - social and political issues died long ago.
 
Retired AF Guy said:
the reality is that most Canadians don't have the time or inclination to read/watch in depth articles/programs as to what is happening in Canada or around the world.

This, to me, is the most chilling part of the discussion.
 
bridges said:
This, to me, is the most chilling part of the discussion.

Exactly, especially given how the media can harness that. Witness Faux "News" and their little cousin the Sun. They know that their audience won't actually bother to seek more information, and thus have the ability to shape discourse, pushing it away from real issues to whatever suits their agendas. It's a very, very disturbing problem.
 
Redeye said:
Exactly, especially given how the media can harness that. Witness Faux "News" and their little cousin the Sun. They know that their audience won't actually bother to seek more information, and thus have the ability to shape discourse, pushing it away from real issues to whatever suits their agendas. It's a very, very disturbing problem.

Just like CBC, CTV, MSNBC, and CNN, right?
 
Redeye said:
Exactly, especially given how the media can harness that. Witness Faux "News" and their little cousin the Sun. They know that their audience won't actually bother to seek more information, and thus have the ability to shape discourse, pushing it away from real issues to whatever suits their agendas. It's a very, very disturbing problem.

Don't twist this into yet another tangent on your agenda.

Only warning.

Staff
 
Redeye said:
Exactly, especially given how the media can harness that. Witness Faux "News" and their little cousin the Sun. They know that their audience won't actually bother to seek more information, and thus have the ability to shape discourse, pushing it away from real issues to whatever suits their agendas. It's a very, very disturbing problem.

I normally enjoy the interesting back and forth from our left/right wing perspectives here but I have to reply to this one.  What a complete crock of you know what.  You are making a large assumption and casting those of us with right leaning views as a bunch of low brow, low intelligence neanderthals.  How do you assume that just because our views don't agree with yours we wouldn't bother to do do the research to reach an informed point of view?

You know what's really disturbing?  That you ascribe to us the attitudes that you display.

NorthAlbertan
 
Which is exactly why I said what I did. Sythen called him on it and we don't need to go any further. Thanks.
 
Northalbertan said:
I normally enjoy the interesting back and forth from our left/right wing perspectives here but I have to reply to this one.  What a complete crock of you know what.  You are making a large assumption and casting those of us with right leaning views as a bunch of low brow, low intelligence neanderthals.  How do you assume that just because our views don't agree with yours we wouldn't bother to do do the research to reach an informed point of view?

You know what's really disturbing?  That you ascribe to us the attitudes that you display.

NorthAlbertan

I would daresay that you likely get your news from a variety of sources, not just the Sun. And I would also venture that Redeye knows this.

I don't think anyone who is the sort to be taking part in a conversation like this here on army.ca is the sort he's thinking of in saying things like this; no more than could be claimed in the other direction politically. Clearly just about every one of us here is savvy enough to be informed about the world from a multitude of sources. The concern, I think, is rightly levied as 'sold source' media consumers- those whose exposure to the world is little more than a copy of the Sun, or watching CNN, or what have you.

Let's not pretend that there isn't a sizeable proportion of the population who are ignorant and will buy whatever is presented to them- whether it's the 'Obama money!' welfare class, or the 'they took our jobs!' populist reactionaries.

The Sun has a pretty commanding market position in the mainstream tabloid press. I'm not aware of anything that could really be called much of a competitor to it in its own market niche.
 
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