Infantry Vehicles

[Kirkhill]

https://x.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1692970554444144919?s=46&t=fCYJdxwzyypPWGOhHnLHLw

Rubber tracks?

 

[Kirkhill]

Heavy forces go tracked. The Medium and Light Motorized go wheeled.

Wheels can do roads so much better than tracks (unless the road is all fubar from combat). But it allows for a mixed force with a multiple protective and mobility options

Agree that tracks spread the load and that as a result they can carry heavier loads over loose, low density surfaces, the type of ground you find in combat zones.

As you note the value of wheels is that they can exploit roads and good going to rapidly get to where there is no combat and engage the enemy. When things go fubar and the enemy engages then tracks come in handy.

Full spectrum, multi domain operations?

 

[KevinB]

Rubber tracks?

I found that interesting as well.
Not sure if that will last, they are much easier to pop back on, but I’ve never thought (or heard) of them on a heavy combat system.

I suspect that they will end up having two sets: rubber for training and standard ‘combat tracks’ being metal with rubber pads.


Or it’s simply a misquote…

 

[FJAG]

Rubber tracks?

Looks like and according to Wikipedia and the article below, it is. Must be getting close to what rubber tracks can handle. The article below says they'll be Canadian Soucy tracks.

That said I like the idea and the vehicle.

There's a more detailed article on this Mid-life upgrade here:

BAE Systems Hägglunds details the Royal Netherlands Army CV90 MLU - EDR Magazine

By Paolo Valpolini On Day one at the International Armoured Vehicles Conference, organised online by Defence iQ due to the

www.edrmagazine.eu

Interesting that the current 35mm barrels have lots of life left on their 6,000 rounds and are being reused.

 

[childs56]

I found that interesting as well.
Not sure if that will last, they are much easier to pop back on, but I’ve never thought (or heard) of them on a heavy combat system.

I suspect that they will end up having two sets: rubber for training and standard ‘combat tracks’ being metal with rubber pads.


Or it’s simply a misquote…

Dutch CV90s to get composite rubber tracks - Army Technology

BAE Systems will equip Dutch CV90s with composite rubber tracks as part of a €500m upgrade programme to the Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV).

www.army-technology.com

 

[KevinB]

Dutch CV90s to get composite rubber tracks - Army Technology

BAE Systems will equip Dutch CV90s with composite rubber tracks as part of a €500m upgrade programme to the Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV).

www.army-technology.com

Yeah it will be interesting to see if they last.
My only experience with rubber tracks is on Bobcats - so different type of usage.

 

[Rifleman62]

Search Canada on that website to get the latest on Canada.

 

[OldSolduer]

Yeah it will be interesting to see if they last.
My only experience with rubber tracks is on Bobcats - so different type of usage.

Here in good old Manitoba several large industrial farms run tractors on rubber tracks. I know its not combat but I am guessing if it wasn't cost efficient they would not be using them.

google Cat Tractor and you can see them

 

[Kirkhill]

Dutch CV90s to get composite rubber tracks - Army Technology

BAE Systems will equip Dutch CV90s with composite rubber tracks as part of a €500m upgrade programme to the Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV).

www.army-technology.com

BAE Systems will equip Dutch CV90s with composite rubber tracks as part of a €500m upgrade programme to the Infantry Fighting Vehicle (IFV).

The Royal Netherlands Army will follow the Norwegian Army, which has already equipped its vehicles with the rubber tracks and used them in Afghanistan.

Switching from steel to the composite rubber track has the benefit of reducing the vehicle’s weight and noise in the crew compartment by as much as 65%.


The reduction in noise and vibration helps to minimise crew fatigue. The CV90s will receive rubber tracks jointly developed by Soucy International and BAE Systems Hägglunds.

The weight reduction increases the efficiency and running costs of the vehicle as well as freeing up payload for the addition of future systems.

Soucy designs and manufactures the tracks and BAE Systems Hägglunds has qualified them in full-scale trials.

BAE Systems Hägglunds director combat vehicles Dan Lindell said: “The reduced vibration levels will increase the life expectancy of electronics, optronics, and ammunition, which will significantly reduce vehicle running costs.

“What’s more, with the reduction of close to one tonne in vehicle weight as a result of the change to a rubber track system, there will be increased potential for continuous growth.”


The Royal Netherlands Army is also set to start equipping its CV90s with Elbit Systems’ Iron Fist Active Protection system, following an agreement to integrate the system in 2019. BAE Systems Hägglunds is leading the integration of Iron Fist on the Dutch IFVs.

Lindell added: “This development is a real strategic milestone in the CV90’s approach to holistic survivability.

“It complements the already existing stealth- and soft-kill layers with further means to defeat the incoming threat, making survivability even more achievable.”

CV90 is currently also in-service with Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Norway, Sweden and Switzerland – with the operating countries a part of what Hägglunds calls the ‘CV90 Club’.

At an annual meeting of the club, the CV90 operators share best practice and explore potential capability upgrades to the IFV. The use of rubber tracks stemmed from studies by the CV90 user group.

In the UK, Soucy is working with Supacat to explore the option of equipping the UK’s tracked armoured fleet with rubber tracks

From all reports it sounds as if the Ajax should get the Soucy tracks ASP.

Soucy Composite Rubber Track For Hanwha Redback | Joint Forces News

Hanwha Defence and Soucy have teamed on Australia's Project LAND 400 Phase 3 tender ~ composite rubber keeps Team Redback on track.

www.joint-forces.com

Band tracks history seems to have started with Bandvagns and includes rubber tracks on the M113 upgrade to the TLAV standard.

Band Tracks

A blog about the latest advances in military technologies on weapons, turrets, armored vehicles and land systems.

warfaretech.blogspot.com

 

[suffolkowner]

CAN BOXER REPLACE WARRIOR AS AN IFV?

By Nicholas Drummond This article considers the controversial question of whether the British Army still needs a tracked infantry fighting vehicle when WARRIOR is retired in 2025 or whether BOXER c…

uklandpower.com

lots of questions for the UK at least they have a temporary tank solution with the CR3
but
Warrior
Bulldog
Ajax

wheeled boxer to replace warrior??
tracked boxer to replace warrior??

if they can have a tracked boxer can we have a tracked LAV6/Stryker??

 

[Prairie canuck]

CAN BOXER REPLACE WARRIOR AS AN IFV?

By Nicholas Drummond This article considers the controversial question of whether the British Army still needs a tracked infantry fighting vehicle when WARRIOR is retired in 2025 or whether BOXER c…

uklandpower.com

lots of questions for the UK at least they have a temporary tank solution with the CR3
Warrior
Bulldog
Ajax

wheeled boxer to replace warrior??
tracked boxer to replace warrior??

if they can have a tracked boxer can we have a tracked LAV6/Stryker??

tracked stryker

 

[KevinB]

I don’t see it as a viable option.
They killed the project before submission, which to me means that it had some significant flaws.

TBH neither Tracked Boxer or Tracked Stryker are really tracked versions of their wheeled namesakes, the hull is only externally similar, and I doubt the various claims of commonality are valid.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I don’t see it as a viable option.
They killed the project before submission, which to me means that it had some significant flaws.

TBH neither Tracked Boxer or Tracked Stryker are really tracked versions of their wheeled namesakes, the hull is only externally similar, and I doubt the various claims of commonality are valid.

Possibly engines, vision blocks, FCS and some other small systems?

 

[Kirkhill]

Trophy protection system to be used on new Leopard 2 tanks in Norway, Germany: Rafael - Breaking Defense

The Israeli firm also said it's moving to next phase for the Trophy on the latest British Challenger tanks.

breakingdefense.com

If defence is going active, the fencer is ditching his shield and learning how to parry effectively, how long before a MRZR with a Trophy system and an RWS is as well protected as a CV90?

 

[KevinB]

Trophy protection system to be used on new Leopard 2 tanks in Norway, Germany: Rafael - Breaking Defense

The Israeli firm also said it's moving to next phase for the Trophy on the latest British Challenger tanks.

breakingdefense.com

If defence is going active, the fencer is ditching his shield and learning how to parry effectively, how long before a MRZR with a Trophy system and an RWS is as well protected as a CV90?

Well other than small arms or bursting munitions…

 

[KevinB]

Possibly engines, vision blocks, FCS and some other small systems?

Engines for the tracked systems are much larger due to the larger weight.
So some chassis parts are really the only common aspect. Turrets/FCS and Weapons could be, but often when one has a systme double the weight one wants to add other toys too.

I’m of the opinion it’s better to get a purpose built tracked system with more commonality with the MBT than commonality with a medium weight wheeled vehicle.

 

[Kirkhill]

Well other than small arms or bursting munitions…

So back to the M113 generation of armour?

 

[KevinB]

So back to the M113 generation of armour?

I don’t think Aluminum Box is anyone’s cup of tea these days.

I do see the point of a true wheeled APC in the 15-20t range. But I suspect that most IFV will be within a few tons of the MBT they are designed to fight along side.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I like to see something like this fill a lot of the other roles the M113 did so well. Sometimes a armoured box is all you need

 

[KevinB]

I like to see something like this fill a lot of the other roles the M113 did so well. Sometimes a armoured box is all you need

The problem is the M113 really didn’t do anything well. It was not a fighting vehicle, and wasn’t an exceptionally good protected mobility vehicle either.