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Infantry Sections - 1964 to 2004

As I recall the section organization for Mike Company 3RCR for the 1980 Reforger Exercises looked like this:  :warstory:

Section Commander Sergeant â “ FN rifle
Section 2iC Master Corporal â “ FN Rifle
Driver for M113 â “ SMG
C2 Gunner
C2 Gunner
Carl Gustav 84mm MAW No. 1Gunner â “ MAW and FN Rifle
Carl Gustav No. 2 â “ FN and Rockets
Rifleman
Rifleman
Rifleman

Our section was augmented with cadets and reservists for REdeployment of FORces to GERmany (hence REFORGER)

The usual drill was that the section commander would command the rifle section and the 2iC would command the C2 Group.  Sometimes the Carl G team would act as riflemen depending on the tactical situation.  We only dismounted the fifty in defence and remember that humping it about made me glad that I was usually carrying the Carl G!  When the section was doing something dismounted we would leave the driver and one other soldier with the track to act as Air, Gas, and Sagger watch and help the driver with maintenance as well as provide fire support if needed.  We did a lot of NBCW with gas in the field that summer â “ the old hands said that this was a new thing to be doing the gas training outdoors there.  The driver would trade the SMG when needed for patrols or when he pulled sentry duty and needed to use a rifle, but usually the SMG sat in oily rags under the driver's seat!
The platoon commander also had a light mortar and a GPMG with his track.  I never did see the mortar deployed, but the GPMG was used frequently â “ I suspect that it was partly because we had no blanks or BFAs for the M2 HMG, and thus the GPMG was noisier (and easier to lug around dismounted).
One thing I remember about tactics was that the section commander and a designated fifty gunner often had to do a switcheroo when we were coming in on mounted assault.  (This once involved ripping up a field of cabbages - on one night attack the cabbages were thumping the side of the track so hard that we all thought we were under small arms fire!  - Everyone felt pretty foolish when we bailed out and fell on our faces in the cabbages...)It was a bit of a concern as there would be a pause in the firepower from the fifty during a critical time while the switch was made.  I asked about it once and the rational was that the section commander needed to see the objective until the last possible moment.  We tried some other techniques, such as the Section Commander observing from the cargo hatch with the gunner in place in the hatch, and with the section commander serving as gunner with the 2iC commanding the assault.  I recall that there was often some fubar with the radio head set!  Anyway there was certainly lots of cross-training going on.  That's my recollection anyway...

 
Michael,
Glad this is some use to you. Look what you've done, you've got a bunch of guys in their 40s all over the country hunting through old photo albums and wracking their brains out. Been fun though.

Redleaf,
Thanks for jumping in neighour. Memory is subjective, I can't remember doing many conventional section attacks at least on Reforger itself. Maybe during the work up trng in Hoenfells (Sp) but I was still in Mortar Pl then at the gun camp. Most of Reforger at least the first half seemed to be defend, get overrun and fall back 20-30 clicks and do it all again. We were halfway to the Swiss border before that stopped it seemed.

Come to think we must have done a couple as I do remember the â Å“Sect Comd switchâ ? as he dropped out of the hatch, and was replaced by one of us, so we must have done a couple. I know once he grabbed my FN as he dismounted instead of his (they were usually secured with a bungy cord near the ramp on long road moves), and I'd taken off the BFA and replaced it with a rubber muzzle cover. Same drill as the Grizzly, although a bit easier because no turret and â Å“relativelyâ ? more room in the M-113.

Sections were under strength. Looking at a picture, the most we had 8-10 and that included the driver, two reservists and two cadets. I guess we swapped wpns more often that you did because as I remember, with the exception of one rifleman and the Driver, all the regulars were relatively new to Germany. In fact us too Reservists had been there longer, as they'd arrived in country just prior to going on Ex.

I guess the Sgt decided to give everyone max exposure to everything. We even spelled him a lot in the crew comd position in the track to get practice in nav and controlling the vehicle. Either that or he didn't like it up there.

Marshall,
Yeah you never played favourites. Looking at the pic of your brother and me, I thinking it was taken while you were in the Middle East, so maybe it was some other heartless soul. I guess I should post it in the photo section along with all the other old ones I dug up while thinking about this thread. I remember one old recruiting Sgt still floating around the Seaforths in 1977 who was a vet but can't recall his name. We also had a couple in Nfld when I got there. When I made Sgt the PMC of the Mess was a crusty old CSS WO and he objected to young Sgts bringing their â Å“rock and rollâ ? into his mess.

You're right though, high standards were set and passed on and that's what it was all about. I know I did the same or tried to in later years.

Anyway reading this thread I started thinking it gives some historical precedent to this ongoing discussion on are our section battle drills too rigid started by Infanteer http://army.ca/forums/threads/18270.0.html. A good debate and one should not be allowed to die down.
 
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/section.htm

Finally got all the info assembled into a page; there was enough to write a book, but I didn't want to just crip from Captain O'Leary.  I hope the couple of paragraphs I did quote from him are fair game; I've linked to the Regimental Rogue at the bottom of the page.

I couldn't resist but quote a lot of the posts from Marshall, Danjanou and Kirkhill directly.  I hope that is ok.  I'd also prefer to use your real names, but am happy to leave the discussion as is, or change it by either

a) making you completely anonymous
b) putting your real name with your posts

At your discretion.  There's really no discussion online of "actual" practice vs. book practice so I hope you don't mind my taking liberties.  Still need some appropriate photos to brighten up the page and perhaps some diagrams.

Let me know what you think.  I don't intend to get into the "how to" stuff at this point in time, just a general description of the organization.  Any additional input welcome (corrections, additions, etc.)
 
None here either excellent piece of work and feel free to use my real name too, I'm such a publicity seeker.
 
I concur Michael, you do nice work.

Feel free to use my real name.  Although be aware it may have a negative impact on your credibility....give my regards to the Regiment.  ;D :salute:
 
Looks good, however you've attributed some of the3RCR/4 CMBG quotes from redleaf jumper to me.
 
Oh God you're not going to put those pics I sent you up are you? :o :o

Then again 25 yrs ago I was a carefree Cpl with no spare tire and all my hair.....hmmm
 
Those are some great pictures, don't be modest.  I hope I have redleaf's quote attributed correctly now.  I've added some of sl marshall's photos - amazing stuff. 

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/organization/section.htm

and also some pics on the weapons pages

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/lmgs.htm

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/weapons/mgs.htm

You guys who won the Cold War for us haven't gotten nearly as much recognition as you should have.  I know we joke about the Beer and Schnitzel medal, but just imagine how long you guys would have lasted in a true full-on war with waves of Warsaw Pact tanks and infantry preceded by clouds of nerve gas... My hat's off to you.  There is so little in print about the Canadian Army in the 1970s and 1980s, it seems a shame.  Guess its like firefighters; you don't notice them til your house is on fire...
 
Thanks, Michael.

Those pics of Marshall brought back some memories, I actually recognized a couple of people I knew.
 
http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/photos/clare.htm

Some new photos sent to me as a result of conversations on this page; great stuff.
 
Michael, here's just a few minor corrections to an excellent layout of those photos from Reforger 1980!  :salute:

:warstory: At the time I was in Germany with 3RCR I was an army cadet from 2618 RMRangers.  "CFE" as this was called, was a plum course for cadets who were selected on the basis of high standing in their province on the "Gold Star" exams.  The cadets were treated as full members (soldiers) of the regular infantry section that they were posted in.  In my case I was the first section of 2 platoon, Mike Company 3RCR which was call-signed as 12A.  We were just like the rest of the guys and pulled all the same duties, good, bad and otherwise as anyone else.  In my case, my youthful enthusiasm led to me volunteering to be the Carl Gustav gunner for our section, so sometimes I got to do some of the anti-armour ambush work with my number two. I see in my picture that my sewing leaves a bit to be desired as my flag is well on its way to coming off!    :cdn: 
There was always a lot of talk about the "balloon going up' and the threat briefings that we all attended on Warsaw PACT and NATO forces certainly encouraged that sort of chatter.  As the songs says in those days "... our arms were heavy and our bellies were tight!"

After I got out of cadets I went into the CIL (Cadet Instructors List, now called CIC or Cadet Instructors Cadre) and from there transferred to Supp List as a Captain in 1988.  Properly I retired from reserve service rather than active service - I was never in the regular army, I was "attach posted" to 3RCR as an army cadet.  Talk about boy soldiers - you'd likely not see such an arrangement in today's political climate. 
In one of the photos there is a line of troops coming in from preparing defensive positions, the fellow in front with the balmoral is another Army cadet flyover augmentee - unfortunately his name escapes me.

I used to get a bit of flack from time to time for taking pictures, but as I see them now on that web page, I'm sure glad I took them.  Cameras were discouraged as those were difficult times and the SMLM folks were certainly interested in pictures of our vehicles and equipment for their own purposes. 

Also, I believe that the  RCD Leopards shown in the photos are from "C" Squadron RCD, but I could be corrected on that.  The militia cpl Jim Fancy in the pictures is presently the RSM of the Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment. 

Redleafjumper
 
Ok, hopefully that fixed things....

Talk about times changing indeed!  17 year old kids in frontline infantry sections waiting for the Red hordes to storm across the border....
 
Oh, one other point, the last photo of the line of troops with picks and shovels shows everyone dressed in NBCW gear with respirator
carried, not worn (State 2).  Note the chemical agent detector patches on the chest and legs.  Rank was drawn on the the chest patch, if you had any!  1980 was a year of enhanced NBCW training and we exercised with gas in the field.  We were sometimes dressed in full gas gear with respirator worn (State 3), and we were otherwise in combats with '64 pattern web gear with respirator carried (State 1). 

Redleafjumper
 
Changes made...

Holy cow, I just looked at the Hasty P's website.  You are right, CWO Fancy is there....neat stuff.
 
hi great thread guys michael any chance of using some of this for my TO&Es group .

thomas
 
thomastmcc said:
hi great thread guys michael any chance of using some of this for my TO&Es group .

thomas

Hey Thomas - shoot me an email at madorosh@shaw.ca - I don't see why not, and I suspect you may be able to help me with one or two things in return.
 
Michael Dorosh said:
Hey Thomas - shoot me an email at madorosh@shaw.ca - I don't see why not, and I suspect you may be able to help me with one or two things in return.

hello michael thanks email sent to you .

if anyone has any other information that could be helpful to the TO&Es group on canadian or any other amred forces TO&Es please let me know thanks .

thomas
 
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