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Improved Combat Uniform

RE new boots estimated cost of 38.4 million dollars for 120000 pairs. IE $320 a pair!

Are they made of snakeskin or alligator hide?

This does seem a little expensive to me, I know its not as expensive as the F35 but what quality do these boots have that make them worth 320 a pair?
 
SherH2A said:
RE new boots estimated cost of 38.4 million dollars for 120000 pairs. IE $320 a pair!

Are they made of snakeskin or alligator hide?

This does seem a little expensive to me, I know its not as expensive as the F35 but what quality do these boots have that make them worth 320 a pair?


Each pair is inspected by the General in charge of procurement, and he even personally signs the "Inspected By:" slip that falls out of the boot when we get it....


Really though... 180 days??? My SWATS last longer then that! (Even the ones I had overseas!)

If they are actually working out to 350 a pair, then for a soldier deploying for a one year tour that will be a cost of 1400 in boots alone....

Hell, for 500 bucks you can get two pairs of Danners that will last you 3 years!  My Strykers are just finally getting to the point where I should replace em... And I bought them in early 2006....

Someone from NDHQ please explain to me where I am missing something?
 
SherH2A said:
RE new boots estimated cost of 38.4 million dollars for 120000 pairs. IE $320 a pair!

Are they made of snakeskin or alligator hide?

This does seem a little expensive to me, I know its not as expensive as the F35 but what quality do these boots have that make them worth 320 a pair?

They sell them by weight...
 
Please don't forget that those wonderful daypacks (book bags) cost $290 each ($18.9 Mill for 65,360 packs*) and from the same company FELLFAB those wonderful Load Carriage System/Tactical Vests . 

FELLFAB also manufactured the new rucksack in a contract that cost $22.6 mill.  The 3 contracts totaled over $50 mill.  http://www.fellfab.com/canada/news/110906.shtml  Did they get it right on the third try?

Take a look at CTS website for more 'high end' purchases.  http://www.forces.gc.ca/aete/clothethesoldiercts-habillezlesoldathls-eng.asp


This article lists many of the great Canadian contractors on page 3:

http://www.summitconnects.com/Articles_Columns/PDF_Documents/200409_04.pdf

*Daypack discussion with Fellfab press release: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/16110.0
 
Sigger,

You and I both know there is a difference between a school/book bag (lunch and textbooks), a back pack (overnight) and rucksack (multi-day), right?

http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Packs/OvernightPacks.jsp
http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Packs/SchoolBags.jsp

I am sure you also recognize that something off-the-shelf at MEC has some profit for the store on top of the manufacturer's profit margin?  ???
 
Sigger said:
If you take into consideration that a quality pair of boots are pricey( http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Footwear/BackpackingBoots.jsp ). Same thing with backpacks ( http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Packs/MultiDayExpedition.jsp ). I am quite happy we are not issued junk.

I disagree, that we're not issued junk. 

You should hear the complaints (valid ones) about the new ruck, the GP Boots, etc...they may be PRICEY, but expensive does not equal good. 

The points brought up, in my opinion should be looked into seriously.  Boots being junk and chewing feet up like no tomorrow, worse then boots that are decades older model is NOT acceptable.  Just like why would you trial a combat boot, with desk/office people in NDHQ, they are not the target "market"

We're also spending all this money "developping" our own boot, which to be honest as someone who's worked in clothing stores, I can honestly say 8-9 out of 10 have nothing good to say/bad reviews for these boots...logically we wouldn't go with the same brand withouth them coming up with another model/design...which we really haven't, the brown temperate boot looks pretty much like the black GP boot, but with nylon uppers.

What I don't understand is that there are all these boots out there that are time proven and built to foreign military specs, and our very own soldiers swear by some of these, yet we ignore that, and try to re-invent the wheel, making things cost a lot more AND take a lot more time.
 
Sigger said:
If you take into consideration that a quality pair of boots are pricey( http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Footwear/BackpackingBoots.jsp ). Same thing with backpacks ( http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Packs/MultiDayExpedition.jsp ). I am quite happy we are not issued junk.

Considering you just showed that the issued BACKpack is as expensive as some top-quality RUCKsacks, I would say all you proved is that you are issued overpriced junk... which is exactly what we were saying. I use a Spec Ops T.H.E. Pack which is far superior to the issues smallpack, and costs $201.95 brand new instead of $290.

As for the boots, most of us aren't strangers to how much a good pair of boots cost, and most of us (admittedly I'm not one) are wearing boots that cost less than $320 (and they aren't junk).
 
Perhaps I spoke out of line. I have been out of the fold for a few years. However, I am wearing a pair of issued Gortex boots from 2005 that are more comfortable and durable than any Danners or Scarpas I have ever owned. Same thing goes for that issued "book bag".
So I suppose I speak for myself when I say that I am glad we are not issued junk.

Simian Turner said:
Sigger,

You and I both know there is a difference between a school/book bag (lunch and textbooks), a back pack (overnight) and rucksack (multi-day), right?
I am sure you also recognize that something off-the-shelf at MEC has some profit for the store on top of the manufacturer's profit margin?  ???
  No need to get snarky.
 
Danjanou said:
Based on my past experiences witht hem I'm not surprised in the slightest. Are they stored next to the crates of Pith Helmets, Officer's swagger sticks, knee hight puttees and fake Brit public school accents ( subalterns for the use of).  8)

The pith helmets are stored in what used to be the WOs & Sgts Mess. I know, I'm in charge of them.
 
You're in charge of what apparently are a bunch of homeless Warrant officers and Sergeants? They really don't like you do they?
 
Danjanou said:
You're in charge of what apparently are a bunch of homeless Warrant officers and Sergeants? They really don't like you do they?

Certainly not homeless! Much like Gandalf, they are precisely where they mean to be... ;)
 
SherH2A said:
RE new boots estimated cost of 38.4 million dollars for 120000 pairs. IE $320 a pair!

Are they made of snakeskin or alligator hide?

This does seem a little expensive to me, I know its not as expensive as the F35 but what quality do these boots have that make them worth 320 a pair?
I agree that the boots are extremely over-priced. I recently bought a pair of oakley SI assault boots for $200 and their by far better than any boots ive been issued.
 
Can we just fucking merge this thread into all the other "Boots" threads? The issued ones cost twice as much because you're Federal and need to purchase via contract ... as every other one of those boot threads point out.

That sucks. That's the way it is. Do we really need to dive in again? It's not changing despite the fact that it should.
 
Recently ran into a member wearing the new uniform (obtained via trials i believe) and got a close look. I definitely like the look of it on first impressions. While i obviously can't say anything about the quality, it appears much more practical, modern and sharper looking than the current. No surprises, it's very similar in design to the american ACU. I'd be happy to wear this new uniform vice the current one....

....except....

It seems the direction is to wear two gigantic red and white canadian flags (literally the size of the IR reflective flags and IFF patches worn on sleeves overseas), one on each arm.

I swear to god, the guy looked like an astronaut about to go out on a space-walk to fix the canadarm.

That direction is going to have to change. Absurd is the only word to describe how two giant red and white flags on the arms look. One large subdued (green and black) flag on one arm is perfectly sufficient. One has to wonder who makes these decisions and what terms of reference they're using (perhaps it was the same guy who made the issued valise straps about a foot too short in order to save us time snailing the excess when withdrawing under contact?). Just because there's velcro space on your uniform doesn't automatically mean it has to be filled with something. In this day and age, given the prevalence of velcro on modern systems, you're going to have to get accustomed to the fact that there will be bare velcro on your kit/uniforms. That's not cause to fill it with something inappropriate just for the sake of filling it. 

....way to come out with a new piece of kit that the troops would like to wear, then do something to make them embarrassed to wear it.

....and yes, i'm fully expecting the "what, you're not proud of your flag"? Yes. I am. I'm a Canadian soldier. But there's a limit. Nobody wants to look like a joke in their uniform.

The other people who saw it all seemed to agree that the flags were way over the top and looked silly. Hopefully if enough of us point this out, someone will listen.
 
Ham Sandwich said:
Recently ran into a member wearing the new uniform (obtained via trials i believe) and got a close look. I definitely like the look of it on first impressions. While i obviously can't say anything about the quality, it appears much more practical, modern and sharper looking than the current. No surprises, it's very similar in design to the american ACU. I'd be happy to wear this new uniform vice the current one....

....except....

It seems the direction is to wear two gigantic red and white canadian flags (literally the size of the IR reflective flags and IFF patches worn on sleeves overseas), one on each arm.

I swear to god, the guy looked like an astronaut about to go out on a space-walk to fix the canadarm.

That direction is going to have to change. Absurd is the only word to describe how two giant red and white flags on the arms look. One large subdued (green and black) flag on one arm is perfectly sufficient. One has to wonder who makes these decisions and what terms of reference they're using (perhaps it was the same guy who made the issued valise straps about a foot too short in order to save us time snailing the excess when withdrawing under contact?). Just because there's velcro space on your uniform doesn't automatically mean it has to be filled with something. In this day and age, given the prevalence of velcro on modern systems, you're going to have to get accustomed to the fact that there will be bare velcro on your kit/uniforms. That's not cause to fill it with something inappropriate just for the sake of filling it. 

....way to come out with a new piece of kit that the troops would like to wear, then do something to make them embarrassed to wear it.

....and yes, i'm fully expecting the "what, you're not proud of your flag"? Yes. I am. I'm a Canadian soldier. But there's a limit. Nobody wants to look like a joke in their uniform.

The other people who saw it all seemed to agree that the flags were way over the top and looked silly. Hopefully if enough of us point this out, someone will listen.

Trials and practice are 2 different things. Hopefully that individual has the common courtesy to the rest of us and puts your concerns down on his review card.
 
Ham Sandwich said:
Recently ran into a member wearing the new uniform (obtained via trials i believe) and got a close look. I definitely like the look of it on first impressions. While i obviously can't say anything about the quality, it appears much more practical, modern and sharper looking than the current. No surprises, it's very similar in design to the american ACU. I'd be happy to wear this new uniform vice the current one....

....except....

It seems the direction is to wear two gigantic red and white canadian flags (literally the size of the IR reflective flags and IFF patches worn on sleeves overseas), one on each arm.

I swear to god, the guy looked like an astronaut about to go out on a space-walk to fix the canadarm.

That direction is going to have to change. Absurd is the only word to describe how two giant red and white flags on the arms look. One large subdued (green and black) flag on one arm is perfectly sufficient. One has to wonder who makes these decisions and what terms of reference they're using (perhaps it was the same guy who made the issued valise straps about a foot too short in order to save us time snailing the excess when withdrawing under contact?). Just because there's velcro space on your uniform doesn't automatically mean it has to be filled with something. In this day and age, given the prevalence of velcro on modern systems, you're going to have to get accustomed to the fact that there will be bare velcro on your kit/uniforms. That's not cause to fill it with something inappropriate just for the sake of filling it. 

....way to come out with a new piece of kit that the troops would like to wear, then do something to make them embarrassed to wear it.

....and yes, i'm fully expecting the "what, you're not proud of your flag"? Yes. I am. I'm a Canadian soldier. But there's a limit. Nobody wants to look like a joke in their uniform.

The other people who saw it all seemed to agree that the flags were way over the top and looked silly. Hopefully if enough of us point this out, someone will listen.

I believe that the uniform is being prepared by the 'Harper Government' to display a large '1812' on one shoulder and a picture of a flaming White House on the other. It goes nicely with our new national anthem - introduced for the duration of 2012: ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7jlFZhprU4
 
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