• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

HRC Challenge: Medical discharges thinning ranks & forcing unemployment

"I've got my 20+ in, so I'm very interested to see what compulsory release item I'll be released under.  A 3B with immediate indexing will be fine by me!!!"

- Don't get your hopes up.  Most of the money goes to young people we recruit who are in worse shape on enrollment than you will be on release.  Then they get some commie lawyer to sue because we 'broke' the poor young man.
 
Bigmac said:
Quote from Human Rights Act para 15 sub para 9 under exemptions

Although this quote look good for the CF we adopted the regulations of Employment Equity Act in 2003 which means Human Rights Commission could relook into this exemption for the CF.

The CHRC, the federal courts and the federal appeals court have looked at this matter a number of times. One of the most recent examples is that of WO Irvine, who had close to 30 years of service by the time he was released.   Starting in 2003 and going forward through to near the end of 2005, the CHRC and the courts including the appellate courts looked at his circumstances and found that the Universality of Service Principle was sustainable as a matter of law, but it does not necessarily oust the duty to accomodate an injured member or a member with a medical condition. The CAF must still look at the individual assessment while ensuring that any decision taken is not  based on "discriminatory, and arbitrary, hasty, imprudent or inadequate medical assessments."  So, in these cases we have the courts upholding of the Universality of Service Principle as a bona fide occupational requirement, (whether or not a soldier is ever expected to serve in combat) which is now without question a completely valid principle and thus no longer open to legal challenge. On the other hand, any decision by the CAF to release must not be based on faulty or questionable medical assessments, and there is still a small open window of opportunity to accommodate for disability, but only where circumstances permit. I think this is a fair requirement, and I would surmise that the CDS has issued instructions that those factors be addressed prior to taking any decisions and that in so doing, his decision will survive any future challenges to the requirements set out in para 38 below.     

- Don't get your hopes up.  Most of the money goes to young people we recruit who are in worse shape on enrollment than you will be on release.  Then they get some commie lawyer to sue because we 'broke' the poor young man.

It seems that the CDS has decided that current circumstances do not permit the CAF to afford further opportunities to accomodate permanently injured members or members of long standing who develop medical conditions. [IMO, a younger member (with a commie lawyer) with short service time suffering a medical condition not resulting from a duty related injury or illness [in war or in peace] could be released without any serious prospect of mounting a succesful claim.] 

See: http://www.canlii.org/ca/cas/chrt/2004/2004chrt9.html 
Available at:  http://www.canlii.org/ca/cas/chrt/2004/2004chrt9.html#999171

Upheld on further appeal by CAF to Federal Court of Appeal:  Canada (Canadian Armed Forces) v. Irvine, 2005 FCA 432 (CanLII)
Available at: http://www.canlii.org/ca/cas/fca/2005/2005fca432.html]

Relevant portions:

[35] The duties of a soldier are universal in the sense that every member of the CAF must be able to perform them. ....  The Court of Appeal held, at p. 238, that the Tribunal had erred in requiring such proof:

"...[T]he tribunal erred in the way it dealt with the applicant's argument. That argument was neither "hypothetical" nor "specious". The statute rendered Mr. Robinson liable for combat duty. It is an obligation well understood within the Armed Forces. Those serving in support roles are not exempt. Performance of the obligation depends neither on a "transfer" to a combat role nor on remustering. The Tribunal's view to the contrary led to the rejection of the applicant's argument and to the conclusion, erroneous in my view, that somehow the applicant was required to adduce additional evidence showing the number of non-combat personnel transferred to combat functions over a period of time. That view simply ignores that the obligation is one that is imposed by statute. Administrative practice cannot work a modification. The statute binds."

The Court of Appeal went on to hold that the CAF was not obliged to show that the complainant was likely to be deployed to a combat role.

[36] I find that the CAF was entitled to require that every member of the CAF meet these principles of universality of service. This conclusion is underscored by the stated jurisprudence, the prior human rights jurisprudence of direct discrimination relevant to the actions of the CAF in 1995 and 1996, and the direction of Mr. Justice Noël. In other words, once the CAF established a BFOR in the context of combat duty, the CAF is exempted from its duty to accommodate Mr. Irvine in non-combat duties.

[37] However, this finding does not end the inquiry into Mr. Irvine's case. While the CAF is entitled to require that every member be a "soldier first", it must still demonstrate, in accordance with Meiorin, that the standards that it has developed to assess universality of service allow for individual testing. I have already found, in my original decision, that the CAF has met the first two criteria of the Meiorin tests in that the 1979 Policies, the Bridging Policies and the September 1995 Guidelines were rationally connected to the CAF's goal of requiring that Mr. Irvine be able to safely and efficiently perform his duties as a soldier, and that these standards were adopted in good faith.

[38] The third portion of the Meiorin analysis requires that the impugned standards be reasonably necessary for the employer to accomplish its purpose; i.e. the safe and efficient performance of the job. The CAF must establish that it cannot accommodate the complainant and others adversely affected by the standard without experiencing undue hardship. The CAF must ensure that the procedure, if any, to assess the issue of accommodation, addressed the possibility that it may discriminate unnecessarily on a prohibited ground. Second, the substantive content of either a more accommodating standard which was offered by the CAF, or alternatively the CAF's reasons for not offering any such standard must be assessed. As I have already found at paragraph 139 of the 2001 decision, the September 1995 guidelines, to the extent that they allowed for individual assessment, were reasonably necessary to accomplish the CAF's goal of ensuring that members meet universality of service. Thus they evidenced a more accommodating standard in assessing members suffering from CAD than the prior 1979 standards and bridging policies. Yet the CAF failed to use a more individualized accommodating standard, such as that found in the September 1995 guidelines, in assessing Mr. Irvine, (further elaborated upon below).

[43] Based upon the totality of the jurisprudence, and the statutory provisions of s. 7 and s. 10 of the Act, the Tribunal has jurisdiction to deal with discriminatory, and arbitrary, hasty, imprudent or inadequate medical assessments in the application of standards proffered as BFORs. To state otherwise, would be to undermine the entire purpose of human rights legislation. For example, a respondent could establish that a standard constitutes a BFOR, and then despite discriminatory, hasty or deliberate misapplication of the standard to the complainant, justify the complainant's dismissal.  In other words, the respondent would accomplish indirectly, what it is prohibited from doing directly.


[55] For all of the reasons cited I continue to find that the CAF adversely differentiated against Mr. Irvine during Mr. Irvine's employ, on the basis of his disability, in the stated identified policies governing Mr. Irvine as a member with coronary artery disease and in its medical assessments of his condition and in its assignments of employment limitations to him. The CAF was entitled to require that Mr. Irvine meet universality of service principles: indeed each of its standards were based on the requirement that members be fit to be "soldiers first". However, the CAF failed to establish that it applied those very standards to him in a discriminatory free manner. It thus failed to establish on a balance of probabilities a BFOR with respect to either the section 7 or section 10 complaints."




 
So the question here is, if the CF must accommodate - does that mean within the CF or within DND?

If it is within the CF, well, the Minister still has the legal ability to transfer a member from the Regular Force to the Reserve Force WITHOUT that member's permission (although he cannot transfer the other way in a similar fashion).

But, and this is a big but, the CHRC will NOT create a solution that will damage any union, especially CUPE.  They will no doubt rule that the CF must employ him - NOT DND.

Well, the Germans had "Frostbite" battalions manning fixed defences.  Back then, it was the scientific employment of experienced but limited-duty soldiers.  Perhaps our old cruel jokes about leaving wheelchair mounted machine gunners covering our rearward run from the "DIP Line" is not that far off.
 
TCBF said:
But, and this is a big but, the CHRC will NOT create a solution that will damage any union, especially CUPE.  They will no doubt rule that the CF must employ him - NOT DND.

If the CDS was smart, and I know he is well advised, he would make available to this guy any support possible pointing to DND as the default employer after a G4O3 determination. Released from CF but not from DND.  If successful then problem solved - and the CF does not get burdened with releasing medically unfit soldiers to unemployment and can avoid these claims in the future.   

[sarcastic snicker] I would love to see a union argue that the Crown has no duty to accommodate.
 
whiskey601 said:
[sarcastic snicker] I would love to see a union argue that the Crown has no duty to accommodate.

There would be a lot of burned midnight oil trying to get out of that one.......
 
Well... I started this one, might as well add my two cents.

I want to thank you all for your input, especially the guy who originally posted my letter.  I've been busy getting our letter in to the Commission.  It just went in - so this issue is not so time sensitive now- we're in wait mode-I'll let you all know how it goes.

I'm coming into this thing with a few strikes against me. I'm new to this web forum and deathly afraid of computers-so bear with me if I make a tech error.  I'm Airforce (groans all around, I'm sure).

That aside, I was a military nurse for a good part of my 17 year military career.  I may have bandaged your wounds, and I held a bucket for many of your comrades as they pain-puked after battle, so give me the benefit of the doubt. I may not know what you all go through on the battlefield, but I certainly know what you go through afterwards.

I wasn't wounded, as many of you were.  I'm out sick-blew an aneurysm in my brain in 2001- was no good for working in the CF anymore.

My husband was 17 years in the army.  Went from Sgt. to Officer through the UTPNCM program.  In Gagetown in 2002, on training, he went left, his knee went right, and he was medically released because he couldn't ruckmarch the required number of kilometers.
(Because he didn't manage to get through his MOC Training they called him untrained.  Seventeen years in, Sgt, RMC degree- untrained? Whatever.)
It was his release, more than anything, that prompted our current battle with the CF and DND.  I went to school to learn about disability management and human rights standards re: accommodation etc.  Soldiers get a bum deal when it comes to employment equity.

We are not claiming that all ill and injured soldiers be accommodated within the CF.  This is unreasonable and would never happen because the CF has the legal right to terminate the employment of unfit personnel because of the U of S principles. 

Taking the U of S (CF's bona fide occupational requirements) out of the equation entirely, however, by going after DND (who employs disabled persons) for post release employment, is reaonable.

OK, so I'm a nurse and a bit touchy feely on the issue of emotions and mental health - but the last thing soldiers need to be told upon losing  vital body parts, or taking bullets for the cause that render him/her unable to work in the CF, is that they are no longer able to continue working towards the military effort.  And someone mentioned it earlier, it is difficult to sell a new and visible disability to a new employer who has no obligation to employ you.

I want everyone to google in "duty to accommodate"-you'll find many government sites that explain this concept to you.  And then know that in November 2002, the Governor General in Council legislated that the CF was to be made a public sector employer for the purposes of employment equity- meaning that the CF has to, to the best of its ability, do well by its injured soldiers.  This means accommodating them if at all possible.

The process does seem to be getting a bit better.  If personnel are injured to the point they cannot work, SISIP and VAC seem to be doing their thing.  Many who can still work full time, with limitations, are being accommodated within the CF (although you'll see that change with the new Canforgens that have come out, apparently). We're working on that last bunch that are slipping through those safety nets and landing in the unemployment lines.  LTD, the CF, or DND-that's what we're saying.  Never unemployed.

I'm a reasonable person- I know we probably won't win.  They have legal resources that I'll never be able to match. I do know we certainly won't win if we don't try.  Canadian citizens enjoy the benefit of job security every day because of the battles you all fight.

I have a problem with our guys getting released without guaranteed employment.  One other clarification- priority hire is not accomodation!!  In the civilian world, employers must find employment for injured employees, they cannot ask their employees to apply and compete for other jobs in other organizations (not without being able to prove that maintaining an employee is unsafe or financially devestating).  Priority hire is no guarantee of employment.  And if you are ever injured and are able to and still wish to work full time (and a lot of soldiers are released in this situation), you should have a job.

Upon release, you will find you have to compete against -unions, other employees who have priority hire scenarios, you will find that your military qualifications often will not translate into civilian qualifications, you will want to move back home nearer familiy and will have no contacts/networking there, Public Service positions often take 6 months to a year to staff, and they usually, at this time,hire term and not full time anyway (so you still won't have job security).

I'm feeling like a downer here, or maybe a realist?

I watched my very proud husband, who could not have missed more than 5 days of work in his entire military career (sorry, he missed a week when they tried to rearrange his knee parts), struggle with doubt and fear that he would not be able to provide for his family (me having been unable to work-he was taking care of me when the CF released him).  He's now working again with the RCMP, but it's term and he won't be happy until he has full time guaranteed employment. Job stability.

So, that's what started this whole thread.  I thank you for your input.  I don't believe that what we want is unreasonable.  You may not agree, that OK.  It;s always good to hear the other side.

I do know that we all sign contracts.  If we choose to voluntarily break those contracts, (DND,CF, whoever) they scream about the legality of the document in order to dock our severence and bugger with our pensions.  We should hold them to that legal document as well and, I think, have the right to expect they will give us job security for its duration.

All the semantics, all the "who owns who, who works for what" doesn't amount to much.  It's all crap. I'm playing the game and throwing the crap back at them simply to prove that you all deserve to be in a better place than the unemployment line.

Hope this gets through, and hope to hear what you think.

I could go on for hours, but I have to work.  I now freelance write to earn my keep and I often write on military issues.
I read the conditions of this site, none of what is written on this site will ever be found in my writing.  Writing is the one way I have been able to advocate for soldiers and veterans on a large scale.  Most of the issues I tackle will not be solved on a case by case basis.  Public awareness and opinion is the strongest tool we have to fight for change.  So, I keep writing, some gets published, some doesn't...but I just keep writing.

Doing what I can.

Later


 
Battleaxe,
Welcome to army.ca.
Thank you for the 'horse's mouth' story, I'm sure everyone here hopes that things work out.

Oh, and don't worry about the "air force" thing.......Mike had to call the website something and I don't think all those years ago he ever dreamed it would have grown like it did. :salute:
 
The CF (or DND if you like) has no duty to guarantee employment to injured or wounded soldiers.  Remember the text of your original post?  It states:

The arguments for the case:
1) That DND must employ CF soldiers that can no longer meet the physical standards required in the CF. 
2) That DND must step up to guarantee job security and employment opportunities for injured CF soldiers for at least the duration of the employment contract that the soldier signed with that organization.

Plain wrong.  Nobody, short of a Canadian Senator (and I don't agree with that), gets guaranteed employment.  Change "must" to "should" and maybe there is a case to be made.  Doubtful, but possible.  However, by using the imperative you are over-reaching. 

(Edited to remove belligerent tone1)
 
An unfortunate point that you have brought up, is that the Government, in all Departments, now does a lot of hiring of 'Term Employees'.  This would, or may, be looked at as prejudicial hiring practices if CF members were given preferential treatment and received 'full-time' employment, while other healthy members of the public were only eligible for a 'Term Contract'.  That is one heck of a publicity battle to win over the Public.
 
George Wallace said:
This would, or may, be looked at as prejudicial hiring practices if CF members were given preferential treatment and received 'full-time' employment, while other healthy members of the public were only eligible for a 'Term Contract'.  That is one heck of a publicity battle to win over the Public.

I don't quite buy that.  If that were indeed the case, we wouldn't see any "advertised internal processes" (aka internal competitions) in the Public Service.  All competitions would go public - and as anyone that subscribes to CareerWatch with PSC knows, internal competitions are alive and well.
 
Been reading some more and on the VAC site they talk about the PSC priority listing, and yes it is 2 years, but you actually have or can apply within 5 years, or sooner upon getting a certicate from your Doctor saying you are able/fit to work again.. here is the part i was reading and I'll post link at the end.....

Priority Job Appointment in the Public Service

On December 31, 2005, changes to the priority job appointment process in the federal Public Service came in effect to include medically-released CF members from:

    * The Regular Force
    * Reserve Force on Class C service
    * Reserve Force on Class B service of more than 180 consecutive days
    * Reserve Force on Class A service or Class B service or 180 days of less if medical release is attributable to service, and
    * The CF Special Force

This means if a job opens up in the federal Public Service and you have the skills needed to fill that position you will be given priority over other candidates.

Those eligible must request priority entitlement at the nearest Public Service Commission (PSC) office, within five years after being released. The entitlement period begins the day on which an appropriate medical authority certifies the person is ready to return to work if that day is within five years of the date of medical release. The entitlement ends on the earliest of:

    * The day that is two years after the day of certification;
    * The day on which the person is appointed to a position in the public service for an indeterminate period; or
    * The day on which the person declines an appointment without good or sufficient reason.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=forces/nvc/programs/jp

scroll to bottom 1/3rd of the page
 
284_226 said:
I don't quite buy that.  If that were indeed the case, we wouldn't see any "advertised internal processes" (aka internal competitions) in the Public Service.  All competitions would go public - and as anyone that subscribes to CareerWatch with PSC knows, internal competitions are alive and well.

You really do miss a lot.  


As for your comments and the results of having to clean them up along with the replies they incited, it would be nice now if you did show some sort of decorum.  It would be a shame if your Topic got LOCKED permanently due to your, and others, breaching the Rules of Conduct.  Perhaps you'll go on Radio Silence until this topic is safe from Flame Wars.
 
George Wallace said:
You really do miss a lot. 

I missed nothing.  I directly addressed the point you raised, and you seem to have taken issue with it.

As for your comments and the results of having to clean them up along with the replies they incited, it would be nice now if you did show some sort of decorum.

Would you please identify which Rule of Conduct I breached?  The comment you removed had but one point - that ever since battleaxe made her post most everyone dove for cover, in spite of their reckless abandon in arguing with me over various points.  There was no other intent to that post.  The reply that ensued was not called for in any way, and was nothing but an ad hominem attack.

It would be a shame if your Topic got LOCKED permanently due to your, and others, breaching the Rules of Conduct.  Perhaps you'll go on Radio Silence until this topic is safe from Flame Wars.

Feel free to chastise whoever you must, but there was no breach of conduct on my part, according to your rules.  I responded politely to your post, addressed only the on-topic point you addressed, and did not resort to any form of ad hominem attack.  If engaging in polite, on-topic discussion is against your rules, then you'd better pull my Man Aloft keys - if you'll forgive the Naval lingo.
 
Well, I would say that you are missing a lot in the way you have read her post and mine, especially having missed the fact that any preferential hiring will be a hard sell to the Public.  If you can't see that, then I don't see how you can carry on much more with a debate, as your mind is closed on one point, and one point alone.  No big picture; no debate.  It'll only land up like this  :brickwall:
 
George Wallace said:
Well, I would say that you are missing a lot in the way you have read her post and mine, especially having missed the fact that any preferential hiring will be a hard sell to the Public. 

Is an internal competition (not advertised to the general public) not a form of preferential hiring?  The PSC is allowed to recruit from within, unless they deem that there would be an insufficient number of competitors - in which case they'll open it to the public.  Sounds preferential to me, and the public doesn't seem to be mounting any disapproval of internal competitions.

I think the important point to be made is that if DND is deemed to be in an employer/employee relationship (which is the premise of the challenge), then it won't matter if it's a hard sell to the public or not.  It'd be a finding of the Commission that DND did not fulfill its obligation to accommodate, and DND would be obligated to change the way they do business.  No "selling" involved.  :)

Or at least until an appeal is launched, anyways.
 
284_226 said:
Is an internal competition (not advertised to the general public) not a form of preferential hiring?  The PSC is allowed to recruit from within, unless they deem that there would be an insufficient number of competitors - in which case they'll open it to the public.  Sounds preferential to me, and the public doesn't seem to be mounting any disapproval of internal competitions.

I think the important point to be made is that if DND is deemed to be in an employer/employee relationship (which is the premise of the challenge), then it won't matter if it's a hard sell to the public or not.  It'd be a finding of the Commission that DND did not fulfill its obligation to accommodate, and DND would be obliged to change the way they do business.  No "selling" involved.   :)

Or at least until an appeal is launched, anyways.

Well, I'm back from my 2 days in Halifax, and I can see much has happened in this thread since I left. I stated my position before and I will re-state that mine hasn't changed.

The new PSEA came into effect 31 Dec. And every Internal competition that I have seen advertised, have written up for competition, and have posted on the PSAC boards since that date has always included the caveat that personnel falling into any Employment Equity category are eligible for priority hiring into those internally advertised positions. Indeterminate positions I might add, are full time. Not temp, not term, not casual, but full time.

That's all I have to say on this subject. The CF and DND, IMO, are not one in the same. The new legislation does have teeth, it is working and our injured are indeed being hired under the EEP, into those internal indeterminate positions, among others both inside and outside DND.

 
George Wallace said:
any preferential hiring will be a hard sell to the Public.
I don't think the public would find it hard to get behind the idea that a war amputee would not become unemployed because of the wound received while serving his country (though he would move from service member to civilian employee).  I think this understanding would also extrapolate to the soldier that destroyed his knees through service to his country (including time spent training) and is 're-rolled' a civilian employee.
 
Armyvern said:
The new PSEA came into force 31 Dec. And every Internal competition that I have seen advertised, have written up for competition, and have posted on the PSAC boards since that date has always included the caveat that personnel falling into any Employment Equity category are eligible for priority hiring into those internally advertised positions. Indeterminate positions I might add, are full time. Not temp, not term, not casual, but full time.

I believe you're confusing three different pieces of legislation, and I'll try to explain why.

The new PSEA (as it was in force on Dec 31 - http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/P-33.01/text.html, current to 6 Mar 2006) makes reference to priority hiring for veterans here:

39. (1) In an advertised external appointment process, subject to any priorities established under paragraph 22(2)(a) and by sections 40 and 41, any of the following who, in the Commission’s opinion, meet the essential qualifications referred to in paragraph 30(2)(a) shall be appointed ahead of other candidates, in the following order:

(a) a person who is in receipt of a pension by reason of war service, within the meaning of the schedule;

(b) a veteran or a survivor of a veteran, within the meaning of the schedule; and


(c) a Canadian citizen, within the meaning of the Citizenship Act, in any case where a person who is not a Canadian citizen is also a candidate.


It goes on to define "veteran" for the purposes of the PSEA...

“person in receipt of a pension by reason of war service” means a person who

( a) is in receipt of a pension

(i) by reason of service in World War I, or

(ii) by reason of service only in World War II, and who at the commencement of such service was domiciled in Canada or Newfoundland,

( b) has, from causes attributable to that service lost capacity for physical exertion to an extent that makes the person unfit to pursue efficiently the vocation that the person was pursuing before the war, and

( c) has not been successfully re-established in any other vocation;

“veteran” means, subject to subsection 2(1) of this Schedule, a person who

( a) during World War I was on active service overseas in the naval, army or air forces or who served on the high seas in a seagoing ship of war in the naval forces of His Majesty or of any of the Allies of His Majesty, and who has left that service with an honourable record or has been honourably discharged,

( b) during World War II was on active service

(i) in the naval, army or air forces of His Majesty or of any of His Majesty’s Allies and at the commencement of that active service was domiciled in Canada or Newfoundland, or

(ii) in the naval, army or air forces of Canada, and, not being domiciled in Canada at the commencement of that active service, is a Canadian citizen,

and who, in the course of that service, performed duties outside of the Western Hemisphere, or on the high seas in a ship or other vessel service that was, at the time the person performed those duties, classed as “sea time” for the purpose of the advancement of naval ratings, or that would have been so classed had the ship or other vessel been in the service of the naval forces of Canada,

( c) during World War II served as a member of the Women’s Royal Naval Services or as a member of the South African Military Nursing Service outside of the Western Hemisphere and who, at the commencement of her service during World War II, was domiciled in Canada or Newfoundland,

( d) has been certified by the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs as having been enrolled in Canada or Newfoundland by United Kingdom authorities for special duty during World War II in war areas outside of the Western Hemisphere, and who served outside of the Western Hemisphere, and at the time of enrolment was domiciled in Canada or Newfoundland, or

( e) during World War II served outside of the Western Hemisphere with the naval, army or air forces of His Majesty raised in Canada or Newfoundland as a representative of Canadian Legion War Services, Inc., the National Council of the Young Men’s Christian Associations of Canada, Knights of Columbus Canadian Army Huts, or Salvation Army Canadian War Services, was authorized so to serve by the appropriate naval, army or air force authority and who, at the commencement of that service with those forces during World War II, was domiciled in Canada or Newfoundland;


Unfortunately, none of those definitions fit anyone retiring from the CF today.

What I believe you're thinking of is the Public Service Employment Regulations, which provide for priority hire to CF veterans - as long as they were injured as a result of service in a special duty area.  The appropriate section is at http://www.psc-cfp.gc.ca/staf_dot/pser-refp/regl_e.htm#37, and reads:

37. (1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3) and section 40, a person who becomes disabled as a result of special duty service while being a member of the Canadian Forces or the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is entitled to be appointed without competition and, subject to sections 29, 30 and 39 of the Act, in priority to all other persons, to a position in the Public Service for which, in the opinion of the Commission, the person is qualified.

The last piece of legislation that I think you've got confused in the mix is the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act (http://www2.parl.gc.ca/content/hoc/Bills/381/Government/C-45/C-45_4/C-45_4.PDF), which came into force 1 Apr 2006.  This act included a coordinating amendment to the new PSEA, which added this section:

115. The Public Service Employment Act, as enacted by section 12 of the Public Service Modernization Act, chapter 22 of the Statutes of Canada, 2003, is amended by adding the following after section 35:

35.1 (1) A member of the Canadian Forces,

(a) may participate in an advertised internal appointment process for which the organizational criterion established under section 34 entitles members of the Canadian Forces to be considered, as long as the member meets the other criteria, if any, established under that section; and

(b) has the right to make a complaint under section 77.

(2) A member who participates in a process referred to in subsection (1) is, for the purpose of the process, deemed to be a person employed in the public service.

(3) In this section, “member” means a person who is enrolled in the Canadian Forces.


As you can see, there was a lot of stuff all going on at the same time, and not everyone has it straight.  Most of the federal departments still haven't realized that they're allowed to open internal competitions to the CF now.  How do I know?  I just finished going through it all with a HR Advisor with DFO as a result of an employment application I made, and DFO finally admitted I was right and they now have to hit the drawing board to modify their Area of Selection policy for when DFO can and cannot include CF members in internal competitions.  I'll probably never get hired by DFO now for being a thorn in their side, but at least the next CF member that comes along will get a crack at one of their internal competitions.

That's all I have to say on this subject. The CF and DND, IMO, are not one in the same. The new legislation does have teeth, it is working and our injured are indeed being hired under the EEP, into those internal indeterminate positions, among others both inside and outside DND.

I don't believe that CF members injured in non-SDA areas are offered priority hire, and I don't personally know of anyone that has been offered priority hire under those circumstances.  I'm not saying that I'm 100% positive I'm right, but what I am saying is that all of the above supports my assertion, and I haven't been able to find anything to the contrary in the legislation.  If someone else can identify precisely where the legislation allows the average Cpl Joe Bloggins who blows out his back at morning PT to claim priority hire status in the PSC upon his medical release, I'd welcome them to point it out - because I can't see it.  Unfortunately, after you've looked at this stuff long enough, you can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.
 
wotan said:
The CF (or DND if you like) has no duty to guarantee employment to injured or wounded soldiers.  Remember the text of your original post?  It states:

Plain wrong.  Nobody, short of a Canadian Senator (and I don't agree with that), gets guaranteed employment.  Change "must" to "should" and maybe there is a case to be made.  Doubtful, but possible.  However, by using the imperative you are over-reaching. 

OK, I'll take "should"-it would be step in the right direction.

Look, the semantics and details in this issue will be the death of it.  Instead of focusing on how things are, think of how they should be.  The purpose of going to The Commission is to challenge current legislation...with the ultimate goal of changing it. So we can go around and around arguing over who is currently right, or be constructive and work towards changing it so that it will be right.

If you think things are good the way they are, that's fine.  You're entitled.  You might also be in a different boat than some of the released soldiers that I currently correspond with who want to work, and yet are finding that it is not an easy process.

Truth is, all other Canadians have the right to employment equity, and their employers have to accommodate their disabilities.  Everybody is going on about how priority hire is working, and going well.  These guys should not even be applying for priority hire-they should not be in competition-they should never leave the umbrella of employment to begin with.

That's what "Duty to Accommodate" is.

The CF can get by that duty because they need healthy and whole people. I've never argued that disabled people have a place in the CF.  They do, however, still have a place in a workplace - and DND is a good and logical alternative.
 
George Wallace said:
That is one heck of a publicity battle to win over the Public.

You want to win over the public-hit them in their wallets.  Letting trained military personnel walk out the door is, pure and simple, poor human resources management.  They cost tax payers a fortune-training, wages.
They are specially trained for defence purposes.  They are financial assets and resources.  And many are let go, able to work full time with no problems.
The sin is that they've proven themselves, and they love what they do.  They are the ultimate employees, and they are thrown aside.

 
Back
Top