Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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How the public views us
- Thread starter Michael Dorosh
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W
WINDWOLF
Guest
Michael,i feel for you.
Been down that road more than a few times.
My third & current wife was a rabid anti-war
nut.It took a long time for her to realize
that the man she loved was not a baby killer.
She even came to respect soldiers for what they
are,not for what the public percieves them as.
Still hates war,but then so do real soldiers.
All i can suggest is patience & perserverence
will pay off in the end.
It may also help to not be so preachy about
the service,most people our age have a basic
understanding of history.They just chose to
ignore it.
Just a thought,take what you want & ignore the
rest.
With regards & respect.
Been down that road more than a few times.
My third & current wife was a rabid anti-war
nut.It took a long time for her to realize
that the man she loved was not a baby killer.
She even came to respect soldiers for what they
are,not for what the public percieves them as.
Still hates war,but then so do real soldiers.
All i can suggest is patience & perserverence
will pay off in the end.
It may also help to not be so preachy about
the service,most people our age have a basic
understanding of history.They just chose to
ignore it.
Just a thought,take what you want & ignore the
rest.
With regards & respect.
R
rolandstrong
Guest
I am not sure what Mr. Dorosh wrote, but I caught something interesting in what Windwolf wrote. I am a dual citizen. American and Canadian. I have lived here for 23 years (since 11 years old). My loyalty is to Canada, my family canadian. But I do have the opportunity to see both mentalities.
I understand that americans and canadians view the service differently, which is understandable. What I do find odd is how the general canadian public views canadian soldiers the same as american soldiers. It is like the canadian forces get dinged with the 60‘s anti-vietnam-war rhetoric. How do canadian soldiers get tagged with that? Why can‘t the public understand that they put us where they want us...it is not our doing? We are there to serve them, give ourselves up to them. Why are we viewed the same as the Vietnam Era american soldier?
I just needed a rant on that.
I understand that americans and canadians view the service differently, which is understandable. What I do find odd is how the general canadian public views canadian soldiers the same as american soldiers. It is like the canadian forces get dinged with the 60‘s anti-vietnam-war rhetoric. How do canadian soldiers get tagged with that? Why can‘t the public understand that they put us where they want us...it is not our doing? We are there to serve them, give ourselves up to them. Why are we viewed the same as the Vietnam Era american soldier?
I just needed a rant on that.
W
WINDWOLF
Guest
It must be the uniform or the idea of grunts,Roland.
Everywhere i have gone, except Sweden, has
issues about grunts.I think it has to do
with the press & the way the public perceives
the army.
Most civies do not understand that their vote
decides which goverment choses where we fight.
Unfortunately the Vet war was so bad that
the sh!t from it spattered all uniforms.
Just one more tarnished image we have to
live with & overcome.
Everywhere i have gone, except Sweden, has
issues about grunts.I think it has to do
with the press & the way the public perceives
the army.
Most civies do not understand that their vote
decides which goverment choses where we fight.
Unfortunately the Vet war was so bad that
the sh!t from it spattered all uniforms.
Just one more tarnished image we have to
live with & overcome.
R
rolandstrong
Guest
That about sums it up Korus.
And I hear ya Windwolf...it does seem to be consistent in most Western nations.
Think it could be the media?
And I hear ya Windwolf...it does seem to be consistent in most Western nations.
Think it could be the media?
W
WINDWOLF
Guest
I think the media can & does skew public
sendiments against the military as a whole.
How many books on Nam have been written?
All the so called baby killing have been
blown out of whack by sensationalist
media hype.
Look what it did to Airborn.
Wrong place,wrong time & the gov decides that
instead of dealing with the problem,just
disband a fine unit to solve a problem.
The media made that call by twisting the accounts all out of shape & getting the public in a
uproar.
It will come back to haunt them one day,when
we will really need a airborn unit & none are
there.
sendiments against the military as a whole.
How many books on Nam have been written?
All the so called baby killing have been
blown out of whack by sensationalist
media hype.
Look what it did to Airborn.
Wrong place,wrong time & the gov decides that
instead of dealing with the problem,just
disband a fine unit to solve a problem.
The media made that call by twisting the accounts all out of shape & getting the public in a
uproar.
It will come back to haunt them one day,when
we will really need a airborn unit & none are
there.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
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Thanks for the reply Windwolf, and others. I deleted the post because **** Netscape at work doesn‘t allow me to either post or edit. I had actually posted a picture of the girl in question and given out her contact info, which was infantile of me, so I wanted to rectify that post-haste.
Bert
Sr. Member
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I‘ve noticed in a few posts in this forum that some serving members feel the public is down on the military.
I‘ve been around awhile, worked in a number of places and situations affecting a large number of people and can say I have experience with a decent cross-section of the Canadian public. Looking back and at the present, trying to be as factual as I can, I don‘t know anyone who thought ill of members of the military.
Yeah, people have opinions about where the Canadian govenment sends troops and spends money, the perception of American milito-politico-economo
power, and little northern towns can be intimidated by a high influx of transient troopers, but no one I know knocks the members of the CF.
I‘m sure many protesters get alot of air-time... the squeaky wheel gets the grease... since it revolves around something newsworthy. Yet at the same time, I believe mainstream Canada isn‘t so naive and stands behind the organization. Its difficult to understand the Canadian perception because the military is not visible to the majority of the public and therefore not in their everyday minds. I just wouldn‘t look at that so negatively.
Just my thoughts.
I‘ve been around awhile, worked in a number of places and situations affecting a large number of people and can say I have experience with a decent cross-section of the Canadian public. Looking back and at the present, trying to be as factual as I can, I don‘t know anyone who thought ill of members of the military.
Yeah, people have opinions about where the Canadian govenment sends troops and spends money, the perception of American milito-politico-economo
power, and little northern towns can be intimidated by a high influx of transient troopers, but no one I know knocks the members of the CF.
I‘m sure many protesters get alot of air-time... the squeaky wheel gets the grease... since it revolves around something newsworthy. Yet at the same time, I believe mainstream Canada isn‘t so naive and stands behind the organization. Its difficult to understand the Canadian perception because the military is not visible to the majority of the public and therefore not in their everyday minds. I just wouldn‘t look at that so negatively.
Just my thoughts.
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Michael, would you mind re-writing what happened? I hate not being in the ‘know‘.
The feeling I get from the public when they see me or my comrades in uniform is a mixed one. After 9/11 we got some cheers in the streets. When we returned from our winter ex in 2002, Team Canada had just won gold. I got more honks and positive looks from passers by on that day than I ever had before or since. I find it pretty sad that so many Canadians base alot of their national pride around a friggin‘ sport. I saw more Canadian flags sticking out of windows that day than I see on the 1st of July.
Since the war in Iraq, people barely acknowledge us when they see us in uniform. It‘s either blank stares or smart@ss comments like; "hey, nice hair-do‘s", some middle aged guy yelled that as he drove past our Coy as we were out on a ruck march, referring to our helmet scrim. Back in May, I was participating in a fundraising run (directing traffic) for our unit assoc. and the Canadian Cancer Society. It was held in a rich part of Niagara-On-The-Lake. You should have seen the looks I got. I‘ve never seen so many jaws so gaping before.
Since the war I make a note not to mention that I am a CF member to strangers, especially at social events. Or else I get bombarded by these d@mn barstool philosiphers telling me what they think of the war, and asking me what I think. It gets annoying. So the best way to deal with any hippie/anti-establishment types is to simply ignore them. They aren‘t worth your time to begin with.
But they will all kiss our @sses when they need us. Typical.
However I do beleive that there is a silent majority in Canada that support the CF regardless. But they are just that: silent.
Tyler
The feeling I get from the public when they see me or my comrades in uniform is a mixed one. After 9/11 we got some cheers in the streets. When we returned from our winter ex in 2002, Team Canada had just won gold. I got more honks and positive looks from passers by on that day than I ever had before or since. I find it pretty sad that so many Canadians base alot of their national pride around a friggin‘ sport. I saw more Canadian flags sticking out of windows that day than I see on the 1st of July.
Since the war in Iraq, people barely acknowledge us when they see us in uniform. It‘s either blank stares or smart@ss comments like; "hey, nice hair-do‘s", some middle aged guy yelled that as he drove past our Coy as we were out on a ruck march, referring to our helmet scrim. Back in May, I was participating in a fundraising run (directing traffic) for our unit assoc. and the Canadian Cancer Society. It was held in a rich part of Niagara-On-The-Lake. You should have seen the looks I got. I‘ve never seen so many jaws so gaping before.
Since the war I make a note not to mention that I am a CF member to strangers, especially at social events. Or else I get bombarded by these d@mn barstool philosiphers telling me what they think of the war, and asking me what I think. It gets annoying. So the best way to deal with any hippie/anti-establishment types is to simply ignore them. They aren‘t worth your time to begin with.
But they will all kiss our @sses when they need us. Typical.
However I do beleive that there is a silent majority in Canada that support the CF regardless. But they are just that: silent.
Tyler
W
WINDWOLF
Guest
Tyler my friend, don,t let them
make you feel ashamed of your uniform.
Be proud & if they can,t handle it
tough sh!t on them.
make you feel ashamed of your uniform.
Be proud & if they can,t handle it
tough sh!t on them.
Bert
Sr. Member
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I don‘t want to create a debate and I‘m not a member of the CF, but I‘m one of the civies out there that may pass you on the street.
I know when you wear the uniform, you visually mark yourself as symbol or bearer of Canadian poltical thought, government action, national pride, the good and the bad, as well as a government institution. Some people will make some sort of comment and some will not, for the good or worse. We all know that.
As I walk down the street, I get blank stares, hear political comments, see the idiots, the goofs, and essences of courage and decency. You don‘t need a uniform to see it and have it put in your face either.
From my experience, the people that don‘t consider joining the military or think about it everyday will be in awe or double take on a uniform. If you on a ruck march and some small town mutant calls out "nice hairdos", I wouldn‘t take it so personally. At work, everytime I get a hair cut, sombody always says, like its back in grade 3 again, "Man, you gotta a haircut". Well, its freaking obvious I did. Canadians, in my expereince, are not the type to jump around and cheer unless theres beer and its at a hockey game or some pub.
I don‘t have your experiences and I wasn‘t present where Canadians dissed you. I‘m sure it happens. Its just I‘m from small town Canada, lved in areas around Canada and I‘ve come accross very few people who would throw an egg at a uniform, and those ppl who would, would throw an egg at anyone anyway.
Man it can‘t be that bad out there.
I know when you wear the uniform, you visually mark yourself as symbol or bearer of Canadian poltical thought, government action, national pride, the good and the bad, as well as a government institution. Some people will make some sort of comment and some will not, for the good or worse. We all know that.
As I walk down the street, I get blank stares, hear political comments, see the idiots, the goofs, and essences of courage and decency. You don‘t need a uniform to see it and have it put in your face either.
From my experience, the people that don‘t consider joining the military or think about it everyday will be in awe or double take on a uniform. If you on a ruck march and some small town mutant calls out "nice hairdos", I wouldn‘t take it so personally. At work, everytime I get a hair cut, sombody always says, like its back in grade 3 again, "Man, you gotta a haircut". Well, its freaking obvious I did. Canadians, in my expereince, are not the type to jump around and cheer unless theres beer and its at a hockey game or some pub.
I don‘t have your experiences and I wasn‘t present where Canadians dissed you. I‘m sure it happens. Its just I‘m from small town Canada, lved in areas around Canada and I‘ve come accross very few people who would throw an egg at a uniform, and those ppl who would, would throw an egg at anyone anyway.
Man it can‘t be that bad out there.
W
WINDWOLF
Guest
I don,t know about that Bert.
Attitudes seem not to have changed
since my time in.
The problem as i see it,is that the guys
go thru h<ll to get trained & become proud
of their country/unit. It is difficult not to
understand why civys don,t have the
same respect as they do.The uniform
is a symbol of their abilities to defend
Canada.To work so hard for something & then
have some slacka$$ diss you for it hurts.
This may not be as accurate as i want,but i
find it hard to put into words the
disalusion that occures the first time
you are insulted or slammed for your
choice.
This is just my opinon,but i have had it
happen to me on more occassions than i can
count,so i have some expeiance.
Regards.
Attitudes seem not to have changed
since my time in.
The problem as i see it,is that the guys
go thru h<ll to get trained & become proud
of their country/unit. It is difficult not to
understand why civys don,t have the
same respect as they do.The uniform
is a symbol of their abilities to defend
Canada.To work so hard for something & then
have some slacka$$ diss you for it hurts.
This may not be as accurate as i want,but i
find it hard to put into words the
disalusion that occures the first time
you are insulted or slammed for your
choice.
This is just my opinon,but i have had it
happen to me on more occassions than i can
count,so i have some expeiance.
Regards.
- Reaction score
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To be honest, I don‘t think I‘ve had too many bad reactions while *in* uniform. Sure I‘ve caught my share of looks, but I‘ve noticed more people I don‘t know smilling, nodding, wishing me a good day/evening, etc. Heck, I‘ve even caught an ex girlfriend staring in amazment at me when the guys went out for lunch one parade day...
Outside of uniform is when I‘ve noticed some anti-military sentiments. Possibly because on Civvie Street I‘m at the University, where some of the people I meet have odd views... (And we have an anti-military school newspaper)
I should have elaborated on that last paragraph a bit, but alas I must break my chain of thought; I‘ve gotta go drive around the city getting things squared away before I leave on course.
Cheers.
Outside of uniform is when I‘ve noticed some anti-military sentiments. Possibly because on Civvie Street I‘m at the University, where some of the people I meet have odd views... (And we have an anti-military school newspaper)
I should have elaborated on that last paragraph a bit, but alas I must break my chain of thought; I‘ve gotta go drive around the city getting things squared away before I leave on course.
Cheers.
- Reaction score
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- Points
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Heh. My unit tries to make itself well known enough by hitting enough local bars. Usually good for couple of drunken guys say stupid things at you or few times a girl comes to sit on your lap.
Seriously, most of the time the comments I get are of appreciation or curiousity.
Few times however, some people choose to say rather annoying things.
It‘s not like we, as individual soldiers, make policies or something or we have direct access to Bush.
During my basics I learned a great quote: "Mind over matter. I don‘t mind because you don‘t matter." Useful quote when applying to idiots who don‘t matter.
However, sometimes its hard when you get comments like ‘babykiller.‘
Seriously, most of the time the comments I get are of appreciation or curiousity.
Few times however, some people choose to say rather annoying things.
It‘s not like we, as individual soldiers, make policies or something or we have direct access to Bush.
During my basics I learned a great quote: "Mind over matter. I don‘t mind because you don‘t matter." Useful quote when applying to idiots who don‘t matter.
However, sometimes its hard when you get comments like ‘babykiller.‘
W
WINDWOLF
Guest
Bad,bad RFH.Never let a girl sit on your
knee,without aleast offering a bribe first.
Great saying,have heard different version
of that one,but i like yours.
I use to bite my lip if i was being hasseled,
but i have decided to give as good as i get.
I know it,s childish but i can not stand
the blatant disrespect sometimes.
I have even been helped out by non-members
on occassion to defend my military service.
And it was appreciated.Not all civys are
anti-military,but the big mouths always
seem to get the attention.
knee,without aleast offering a bribe first.
Great saying,have heard different version
of that one,but i like yours.
I use to bite my lip if i was being hasseled,
but i have decided to give as good as i get.
I know it,s childish but i can not stand
the blatant disrespect sometimes.
I have even been helped out by non-members
on occassion to defend my military service.
And it was appreciated.Not all civys are
anti-military,but the big mouths always
seem to get the attention.
Well not being a part of the military as of yet, and being someone who is applying I‘ve been witness to my fair share of stereotypes aimed at the Forces Personnel. Just yesterday I was in getting a hair cut, and in idle chit chat I mentioned I was going infantry. Suffice to say, I was again ( I say again because it seems everyone I tell wants to ‘enlighten‘ me) told that I should pick another trade - a trade that was more useful in todays society, etc etc. People just don‘t get it, they don‘t see that an intelligent young man would want to join the infantry. The most irritating thing is talking to my mother, who seems to think its all about "wanting to blow sh*t up". Talking with my father is kinda loaded, since hes ex-navy and partial to naval trades anyways. But at least he doesn‘t try to stick reasons on to why I chose infantry.
I‘m living with my friends family, his father is WO in the airforce, hes a fridge-tech. Anyways I came back from the recruiting office a couple of weeks ago after deciding to go infantry. His mother said it; "it is the easy way out" in such a casual manner it really set me boiling. I say taking 4 years at university and then landing a 6 figure job is the easy way out. But hey, I‘m just a kid, why listen to me right? My friends father had a talk with me the other day, I was down in the basement working on the recruiting form. He was telling me that once I completed my CFAT I probably wouldn‘t have to go Infantry, I could pick another trade. And again, I can‘t help but wonder why the f*ck people can‘t see that I want to go infantry?
Don‘t get me wrong, I‘m not looking for respect from people. I haven‘t earned it yet, and even when I do I wont look from it from people who haven‘t seen what its like. When I earn the respect, I‘ll look for support from those individuals, and only that. support in my decision. I will look for respect in my peers and my closest friends.
I‘m living with my friends family, his father is WO in the airforce, hes a fridge-tech. Anyways I came back from the recruiting office a couple of weeks ago after deciding to go infantry. His mother said it; "it is the easy way out" in such a casual manner it really set me boiling. I say taking 4 years at university and then landing a 6 figure job is the easy way out. But hey, I‘m just a kid, why listen to me right? My friends father had a talk with me the other day, I was down in the basement working on the recruiting form. He was telling me that once I completed my CFAT I probably wouldn‘t have to go Infantry, I could pick another trade. And again, I can‘t help but wonder why the f*ck people can‘t see that I want to go infantry?
Don‘t get me wrong, I‘m not looking for respect from people. I haven‘t earned it yet, and even when I do I wont look from it from people who haven‘t seen what its like. When I earn the respect, I‘ll look for support from those individuals, and only that. support in my decision. I will look for respect in my peers and my closest friends.
W
WINDWOLF
Guest
Be true to yourself Thaedes, do,nt let that
type of silly sh!t change your mind.
Being bias, i still think 031 is the best.
But what do i know,been dropped on my head
too many times to remember.
Have fun,be tough & never surrender.
type of silly sh!t change your mind.
Being bias, i still think 031 is the best.
But what do i know,been dropped on my head
too many times to remember.
Have fun,be tough & never surrender.
Bert
Sr. Member
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On the lighter side...
Now wait a minute here. My sister (and no you can‘t have her phone number) and her silly little friends go nuts over a guy in uniform. My girlfriend‘s friend, Lei-Lei, stopped dead in her tracks looking at Sgt near HQDND Ottawa and shes some serious looking babe I might add. I won‘t go into what they think about Military Police it depresses me. OK. So you guys might have the small town mutant jibbing you about haircuts, the peacenik wondering why the world doesn‘t pave roads with little bitty roses, and the opinionated drunk who couldn‘t pin Winnipeg on a map, but MAN, you guys get the girls!! Given the looks of these girls, you have nothing to complain about!!
Now wait a minute here. My sister (and no you can‘t have her phone number) and her silly little friends go nuts over a guy in uniform. My girlfriend‘s friend, Lei-Lei, stopped dead in her tracks looking at Sgt near HQDND Ottawa and shes some serious looking babe I might add. I won‘t go into what they think about Military Police it depresses me. OK. So you guys might have the small town mutant jibbing you about haircuts, the peacenik wondering why the world doesn‘t pave roads with little bitty roses, and the opinionated drunk who couldn‘t pin Winnipeg on a map, but MAN, you guys get the girls!! Given the looks of these girls, you have nothing to complain about!!
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ROTFL.. I guess you don‘t know about Shack Rats and Greenhouse Creatures..
Yeah, some of the ladies really are impressed with the uniform. I think Windwolf had the best advice regarding that:
BTW, how old is your sister?
One thing you should never tell anyone in your unit/course/etc, is that you have a sister.. And, don‘t bring a picture of her in a nurses uniform. And never, absolutley, never bring her to tour the shacks during downtime on the weekend. I saw someone do all of the above on my Basic..
Yeah, some of the ladies really are impressed with the uniform. I think Windwolf had the best advice regarding that:
Others are completley disgusted by men in uniform, which is why this topic was started. What you need to find is the precious middle ground..
BTW, how old is your sister?
One thing you should never tell anyone in your unit/course/etc, is that you have a sister.. And, don‘t bring a picture of her in a nurses uniform. And never, absolutley, never bring her to tour the shacks during downtime on the weekend. I saw someone do all of the above on my Basic..
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