How important are extracurriculars for ROTP applicants?

[Vyscaria]

Hey all!

My name is Jerry, and I am currently in Grade 10. I am thinking of applying for ROTP for a Civillian University sometime during the September of Grade 12. My goal is to become an Infantry, Armour or Artillery Officer. Obviously I have a long way to go, but it's never too early to start thinking about the skills expected of me. I want to know if I am on the right track to becoming a competitive applicant, or if there are weak points I should target.

I am currently holding a 89.75& average as a Pre-IB (similar to advanced placement) student at a very academic school. I am confident that I can pull off a 90% average or above once in Grade 11 IB after mark conversions. As I've said, the school is very academic and its students learn far more than they are expected to. Therefore, they perform well on the final standardized IB exams that make up 70% of their marks. That being said, I'm not sure if the fact of being in IB makes any difference to the CF. Will I be questioned on why my marks dropped and then went up significantly? Will I be competitive enough with a 90% average throughout my high school career up to Gr. 11?

If everything goes well, extracurricular accomplishments at the time of the application would include:

• Completion of 250-hour Yoga Instruction Training, becoming an instructor
• Leading the school's Writers' Guild and Yoga Club, actively teaching
• Awarded the Gold Duke of Edinburgh award on Academic, Creative and Fitness achievement
• Gone on a French-Immersion program in Quebec for a summer

As one can see, I'm lacking something most applicants have: Experience in team sports. But my problem is that it's pretty much impossible to get into team sports at my school. We are known for Academia. For example, we have SAT-prep teams and over 300 students show up at each math contest... But only 2 girls showed up for tryouts at last year's basketball team. As a result, the team was canceled. As a girl myself, I'm finding it very hard to participate in team sports while in my academic program, which requires a large time commitment. My family also has a predisposition against girls in team sports (though they don't seem to have problems with girls in the army).

I will try to worm my way into a sports team if I have to, but I'd be going out of my way. Nonetheless, I am very dedicated to my mental and physical health. I run, weight train and practice yoga regularly. Is this enough if I want to be a combat officer?

I have thought of running for student council, but was told that I couldn't be on the student council if I held an executive position in a club. I feel like my opportunities to display leadership in a team are very slim.

I don't want anyone to get the impression that I'm putting all my eggs in one basket for ROTP. I was just wondering of the importance of playing team sports and how it might affect my application. Would I be looked down upon if I had no experience in team sports? I saw that there was a whole section on several application forms for sports experience.

Thanks a million times in advance for taking your time- any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dou You]

The ROTP boards look for leadership in general. Therefore try to obtain a leadership position in everything you do. It looks like you're doing just that, so keep it up over the next two years.

My two cents. Good luck.

 

[OneMissionataTime]

Dou You is right, keep going with your extra curricular activities. Your application will look more attractive with increase of Extra Curricular. However, remember they really take a long look at your marks.. All of them. Try to find a solid balance between both. The awesome thing about having an over abundance of extra curriculars is you can use a position that you might of enjoyed too put on your application.

Personally, I would think jobs with intense amounts of stress or ones where you can display your mental fortitude or your leadership abilities will be the best. It is all about how the board will think you can adapt in the CF environment.
Example: ( Many other types of examples x millions of possibilities )
Football Quarterback calls an audible play due to the amount factor that the Defence is set up in a aggressive blitz formation and your coach did not notice.
Reacting under pressure and making a choice are the most important aspects.
My  :2c:

By the way, your curriculars are good do not misinterpret my intent  ;D.

 

[pudd13]

If it were me, and I were trying to do everything I could to beef up my application, I would try to find at least one team sport to be involved in. School sports are not the only type of sports you can use. Community sports do the trick just as well, and are often more accessible and sometimes cheaper than school sports, or at least they are in the city I live in. Community sports are also a great way to meet new people, and everybody comes from a different back ground. The more people you meet, the more you will learn about what they do in their life, and have the chance of learning about new extra-curricular activities that you may never have considered before.

And just to point out; the CF desires that its applicants play team sports largely for the teamwork end of things, and partially because of the fitness end of things. Even if you are the most fit person in the world, they would still like that you play a sport (or do a job, or volunteer) as part of a team, especially in a fast-paced environment.

I just know that if you think that that is your weakness on your application, it probably is. So do something about it.

 

[2010newbie]

I haven't participated in team sports since before you were born and it didn't make a difference in my application. In its place, I had extensive leadership experience and positions of responsibility. Have you considered cadets? The experience will give you an excellent insight into the military and provide you with opportunities for participating in team sports/group activities and gaining additional leadership experience. As Pudd13 stated, any way you can strengthen your application should be pursued.

Good Luck.

 

[Pusser]

The best advice I can give anyone in their application process, or for anything in life for that matter, is "to thine own self be true"  (my apologies to Shakespeare).  The CF is looking for well rounded officer candidates, which means we want folks who have done different things and have a broad outlook on life.  However, this doesn't mean you should go picking activities just to pad your resume.  It is far better to have one activity into which you pour your heart and soul and where the supervisor can give you a good reference (yes, she was a tremendous asset to our organization, gave it her all, really made a difference, we'll be sorry to lose her) as opposed to joining five different clubs where the only comment someone can make is that yes, her name is on the nominal roll.  Quality is much more important than quantity.

It is also important to pick activities you enjoy.  It is difficult to do something well, if you don't enjoy it.  So no, don't "worm" you way onto a sports team (as if it's actually that easy), if your heart's not in it.  You'll just be miserable and your teammates won't appreciate it, or you. 

This is the same advice I give to serving members when they express their wishes for their next postings.  Ask for the jobs you want to do, not the ones that you think will get you promoted.  Enjoying a job helps you do it well.  Doing well is what will get you promoted.  Even if it doesn't get you promoted, if you had fun, does it matter?  I'm on the home stretch of my career and I have always gone for the things that I wanted to do.  In the process, I haven't gotten as far as some of my peers, but I've gotten further than many others.  It doesn't really matter though because it's been a hell of a ride and there are few things I would change if I got to do it again.  Happiness is about enjoying life, not the number of rings on your cuff when you're done.

 

[Vyscaria]

I agree. Cadets is an amazing experience, I had a great time.  It will be pretty bitter sweet in June when I finish my last year!
If there's a Cadet unit in your area I HIGHLY recommend you give it a shot.

That's a great idea! I've done some researching around my area and have found a unit about twenty minutes away. I think I want to give it a shot, but I wonder if it's at all too late for me to join? Will I have to work with the young cadets for a long time? Not that I have any issue starting from scratch- I just want to be among peers.

 

[Vyscaria]

The best advice I can give anyone in their application process, or for anything in life for that matter, is "to thine own self be true"  (my apologies to Shakespeare).  The CF is looking for well rounded officer candidates, which means we want folks who have done different things and have a broad outlook on life.  However, this doesn't mean you should go picking activities just to pad your resume.  It is far better to have one activity into which you pour your heart and soul and where the supervisor can give you a good reference (yes, she was a tremendous asset to our organization, gave it her all, really made a difference, we'll be sorry to lose her) as opposed to joining five different clubs where the only comment someone can make is that yes, her name is on the nominal roll.  Quality is much more important than quantity.

It is also important to pick activities you enjoy.  It is difficult to do something well, if you don't enjoy it.  So no, don't "worm" you way onto a sports team (as if it's actually that easy), if your heart's not in it.  You'll just be miserable and your teammates won't appreciate it, or you. 

This is the same advice I give to serving members when they express their wishes for their next postings.  Ask for the jobs you want to do, not the ones that you think will get you promoted.  Enjoying a job helps you do it well.  Doing well is what will get you promoted.  Even if it doesn't get you promoted, if you had fun, does it matter?  I'm on the home stretch of my career and I have always gone for the things that I wanted to do.  In the process, I haven't gotten as far as some of my peers, but I've gotten further than many others.  It doesn't really matter though because it's been a hell of a ride and there are few things I would change if I got to do it again.  Happiness is about enjoying life, not the number of rings on your cuff when you're done.

Thanks for the good advice, Pusser. You're right that quality goes before quantity. As for the sports team, it'd actually be pretty easy to "worm" into one. At my school, the teams are practically paying people to join. I know the Captain of our field-hockey team... She doesn't play herself and there hasn't been meetings for months. But you're absolutely right- I won't enjoy a club like this. I do want to play team sports (I've never really had the privilege), and have acknowledged that I won't find such an experience in my school. Following advice from others, I'm now looking into some cadet units.

I can't believe that I never even knew about this. I've never gone camping before, never done many things that many young people my age have done (Darn cultural taboos).

By the way, I admire your positive attitude to life. I think you'd be the kind of person to believe that the cup is always full (half water and half air). The journey is indeed more important than the destination.

 

[2010newbie]

That's a great idea! I've done some researching around my area and have found a unit about twenty minutes away. I think I want to give it a shot, but I wonder if it's at all too late for me to join? Will I have to work with the young cadets for a long time? Not that I have any issue starting from scratch- I just want to be among peers.

Go for it. I've never been in Cadets, but my sister was and she loved it. There always seemed to be a varied age group at any of her events that I went to. Don't worry about age either, it is all in your attitude regarding the situation. Out of the few hundred people at Recruit Camp last summer, I was by far one of the oldest. The majority were more than 10 years younger than me, but I considered them all my peers and I'm sure it will be the same this year at BMOQ.

 

[Vyscaria]

Honestly, I am 18 and I only recently started in Cadets. I am a Cadet Master Corporal, a position typically held by 14-15 year olds. Some times it's a bit of a pain in the ***, but the experience is great none the less.

You would start at the bottom with kids who are 12-13 years old.  But why does that really matter? The staff keep them in line . 

Give it a shot if it's something you're interested in, don't let the whole age thing deter you.

Wow, you recently joined and you're already Cadet Master Corporal? I don't know the rankings very well, but that sounds impressive. How does the promotional system work? I was under the impression that it'd take years to work up to leadership ranks in the cadets?

I'm getting more excited by the minute. This is going to be great if it all works out! Are you required to go to summer camps?

 

[Vyscaria]

I see! That makes more sense. I definitely get your point and will be making a visit to my local cadet unit soon just to check out what they do.

It might be a bit of a time commitment to make it to some of the events I feel really excited about, but I'm sure with a bit of time management I can make it work. Thanks very much for your sound advice, and though I wish I could have found out about this program earlier and taken advantage, I recognize that it's not too late to start now.

Again, thanks for all your help. I wish you nothing but the best at St. Jean and beyond; congratulations on getting that offer for Sonar Op! Yes, I stalked around a little.

 

[a.schamb]

Hey, you can also send me a PM if ya want some more info about Cadets 

 

[ballz]

Go for it. I've never been in Cadets, but my sister was and she loved it. There always seemed to be a varied age group at any of her events that I went to. Don't worry about age either, it is all in your attitude regarding the situation. Out of the few hundred people at Recruit Camp last summer, I was by far one of the oldest. The majority were more than 10 years younger than me, but I considered them all my peers and I'm sure it will be the same this year at BMOQ.

I was going to comment on your first post and decided not to, but now I have to.

First you said that cadets would give you "an excellent insight into the military," and I was going to ask you how you know that when you haven't gone to BMOQ yet. Then I gave you the benefit of a doubt that you may have prior experience in the military, and I really didn't want to start the "cadets are awesome / cadets are douche bags" argument all over again anyway, plus I didn't want to come across as if I'm suggesting that I do know a thing or two about life in the military.

But now that you are saying you have never been in cadets... and I don't *think* you have any prior experience... How can you be telling someone that cadets will give them an excellent insight into the military when it seems you have no experience in either?

Also, I don't know how old your sister is, but you are 34 according to your profile, so I'm willing to bet that her experience in cadets is dramatically different from what cadets is now.

 

[OneMissionataTime]

I did not mean that sports teams are the only way, I just meant those are one of the routes. Cadets is an excellent example of an extracurricular that would look outstanding. In Cadets, you learn pretty much the first 4 weeks of BMOQ (Which is probably the reason they created Recruit Camp, since it prepares you for what is ahead). It also gives you discipline, attention to detail ( Huge.... Especially in those beautiful rooms in the Mega ) and respect for authority. I do not know how many Officer Cadets I saw on my courses the past summers, mouth off to an Instructor because they thought they were "Elite Sh*t".

 

[Vyscaria]

I was going to comment on your first post and decided not to, but now I have to.

First you said that cadets would give you "an excellent insight into the military," and I was going to ask you how you know that when you haven't gone to BMOQ yet. Then I gave you the benefit of a doubt that you may have prior experience in the military, and I really didn't want to start the "cadets are awesome / cadets are douche bags" argument all over again anyway, plus I didn't want to come across as if I'm suggesting that I do know a thing or two about life in the military.

But now that you are saying you have never been in cadets... and I don't *think* you have any prior experience... How can you be telling someone that cadets will give them an excellent insight into the military when it seems you have no experience in either?

Also, I don't know how old your sister is, but you are 34 according to your profile, so I'm willing to bet that her experience in cadets is dramatically different from what cadets is now.

Hm, I didn't think that 2010newbie was telling me anything that was not already common knowledge. Even before I started my research on Cadets, I knew that it was somewhat affiliated with the CF and the activities it performed developed skills helpful for potential members of the CF, i.e. Leadership. Therefore, it can be said that being in the cadets provides some good insight into the military. By "good" I mean relatively better than what one can learn from websites and videos online. One can't learn field work from a book, for example. I would also expect in the cadets that obedience to superiors plays a significant role in training, duties, etc. Cadets would probably be expected to perform physical tasks, and though these tasks may not be executed with the same intensity as they would be in the CF, I would still think that these activities would provide "excellent insight into the military" for any teenager.

I'm sure he didn't mean "military life", rather something like the pride that comes from working for one's country and putting in his or her all both physically and mentally. I would also expect to see varied age groups in cadets. If I am also making these assumptions, do I need to have proper military experience? It's called extrapolation, and not even of the exaggerated type.

Plus, my own sister is actually thirty three years old this year. Sometimes age gaps happen between siblings. You really can't assume certain things; sometimes you have to take what you get with a grain of salt.

Thanks for looking out for me, but I don't believe that I was negatively affected in any way by 2010newbie's advice. He wasn't making any radical claims or even citing anything that would take someone with military experience to know. With all due respect, I think you were a little out of line for picking him out like that. Again, thanks for your input. I will be more careful in examining the sources of what I read here from now on.

@Onemissionatatime:

Sounds great! I definitely need experience in all of that. Discipline... Attention to detail... Is it possible for brains to salivate? I hope my joining very late in the process won't raise eyebrows. But whatever, I'm sure I'll still have a great experience in Cadets if I managed to organize my time effectively. I can't wait for Tuesday when I can go give them a visit. Thanks very much for your input! I can definitely imagine Officer Cadets being high on their perceived 'status' and mouthing off superiors!  :facepalm:

 

[ballz]

Thanks for looking out for me, but I don't believe that I was negatively affected in any way by 2010newbie's advice. He wasn't making any radical claims or even citing anything that would take someone with military experience to know. With all due respect, I think you were a little out of line for picking him out like that. Again, thanks for your input. I will be more careful in examining the sources of what I read here from now on.

This site has established a precedent on staying within your lanes. 2010newbie, pending further explanation, appears to be wandering quite far outside his lanes. It's not about whether or not he is correct (I'm not going to get into that debate), and it's not about looking out for you, it's about maintaining the site's precedent which looks out for everybody that comes here to find good info from good sources.

You may think that he is correct or that he is just stating the obvious (ironically, there are many conflicting viewpoints on cadets), but what if you were asking a different question about something else and someone who didn't know anything about what you were asking was giving you advice and making comparisons between two things they didn't actually know anything about? And it might not be obvious and you might listen to it. And then more people read the advice and listen to it... Or they hear something completely conflicting and don't know who's advice they should follow, because they don't know that one person has strayed well outside their own knowledge/experience. It's not always "obvious," and anything that seems obvious probably isn't what it seems (like right now).

That's why the site tries to maintain a policy of staying within your lanes, and that requires us all to keep each other in check. My comment was very mild. If you think I was out of line, I suggest you spend some more time around here to learn how the site works and what is accepted and not accepted before you start making that judgement, or hit the "report the mods" button.

 

[Gimpy]

This site has established a precedent on staying within your lanes. 2010newbie, pending further explanation, appears to be wandering quite far outside his lanes. It's not about whether or not he is correct (I'm not going to get into that debate), and it's not about looking out for you, it's about maintaining the site's precedent which looks out for everybody that comes here to find good info from good sources.

You may think that he is correct or that he is just stating the obvious (ironically, there are many conflicting viewpoints on cadets), but what if you were asking a different question about something else and someone who didn't know anything about what you were asking was giving you advice and making comparisons between two things they didn't actually know anything about? And it might not be obvious and you might listen to it. And then more people read the advice and listen to it... Or they hear something completely conflicting and don't know who's advice they should follow, because they don't know that one person has strayed well outside their own knowledge/experience. It's not always "obvious," and anything that seems obvious probably isn't what it seems (like right now).

That's why the site tries to maintain a policy of staying within your lanes, and that requires us all to keep each other in check. My comment was very mild. If you think I was out of line, I suggest you spend some more time around here to learn how the site works and what is accepted and not accepted before you start making that judgement, or hit the "report the mods" button.

This may all be well and good but don't you find it a bit hypocritical that you talk about staying in one's lanes and then you proceed to go into 2010newbie's most personal lane by making a direct judgment about his sister's age and experiences?

 

[Vyscaria]

This site has established a precedent on staying within your lanes. 2010newbie, pending further explanation, appears to be wandering quite far outside his lanes. It's not about whether or not he is correct (I'm not going to get into that debate), and it's not about looking out for you, it's about maintaining the site's precedent which looks out for everybody that comes here to find good info from good sources.

You may think that he is correct or that he is just stating the obvious (ironically, there are many conflicting viewpoints on cadets), but what if you were asking a different question about something else and someone who didn't know anything about what you were asking was giving you advice and making comparisons between two things they didn't actually know anything about? And it might not be obvious and you might listen to it. And then more people read the advice and listen to it... Or they hear something completely conflicting and don't know who's advice they should follow, because they don't know that one person has strayed well outside their own knowledge/experience. It's not always "obvious," and anything that seems obvious probably isn't what it seems (like right now).

That's why the site tries to maintain a policy of staying within your lanes, and that requires us all to keep each other in check. My comment was very mild. If you think I was out of line, I suggest you spend some more time around here to learn how the site works and what is accepted and not accepted before you start making that judgement, or hit the "report the mods" button.

Again, thanks for your input. So far I've found the site extremely helpful, and I do understand your perspective on conflicting points. If 2010newbie was commenting on something more specific, I suppose you would be right in trying to validate his sources. In fact, I have seen cases around this site where posters have cited extremely inaccurate information without proper sources to back them up. It's just that this certain case was not that bad- but I suppose all things start on some degree.

If this site only allowed people to make judgments based on their own military experience, then how are people without it to post anything without being hounded for inaccuracy? Nonetheless, as in the aforementioned cases of inaccurate information distribution, it was people like you who stood up and asked for sources to be cited. Though I still think in my own opinion that 2010newbie's post was mostly objective, I definitely see your standpoint. Please do keep on looking out for the integrity of the site. Thanks to all site mods and members so far who have worked so hard to keep this forum (and each other) in check. Hopefully I can become experienced enough to do the same some day. 

 

[jwtg]

Back to the original question-

Extracurricular activities are important because of the qualities they demonstrate: leadership, teamwork, initiative, fitness, intellectual ability, etc.

As to how important they are?  Well, only someone in recruiting could answer that.  I don't have the rubric they use to measure the weight of someone's experience, volunteer work, sports involvement, extracurricular activities, etc.  I do know that they evaluate everything you give them and weigh it (in combination with your CFAT/Academic scores, interview, etc.) and assign you a place on the list.  As it was explained during my interview by my interviewing officer, you basically get a number score and the better that score, the higher you are in the pecking order when selection comes around in the spring of your grade 12 year.

Do everything you can to make yourself more competitive.  I asked my file manager what the numbers ended up being this year, and off the top of his head he said that usually they take approximately 600 people for ROTP, and this year they were closer to 400.  Bearing in mind that those values were off the top of his head/from memory and are not necessarily entirely accurate, they nonetheless illustrate the point I'm making: ROTP is competitive- a lot of people want free school and a lot of people want to be officers.  ROTP has gotten more competitive between last year and this.  I don't know if the trend will continue or not, but I do know that you want to be as competitive as possible when you apply.

 

[pudd13]

I think whatever 2010newbie may or may not have been trying to say, the fact remains; being a member of cadets will help to beef up any application. It is by no means necessary, and it is by no means the sure-fire way of getting accepted to ROTP. I have been accepted for ROTP, and I did not have cadets, and I never felt like my application was lacking anything because of it (and apparently the ROTP selection board agrees).

At the end of the day, if this is what you really want to do, every thing you can do, big or small, will help you. Cadets is usually very helpful on your application, but in my opinion, no more helpful than a team sport or two, some volunteering, and some leadership experience. However, there is no harm in doing both! The more the better! You will never be told by a recruiter that you have done too much, but you may be told that you haven't done enough to be competitive, and that is not something you want to get in the way of your dream.