How good is our training?

[pbi]

After reflecting for a bit on this topic of how well trained we are, and after watching some of the footage of the Marines fighting in Iraq, I want to qualify something I said earlier. While I still believe beyond question that we have excellent troops who are well trained, and that these troops can stand shoulder to shoulder with anybody, I don't want to miss an important point. What the US Army and Marines ARE getting, that we are not, is actual combat experience. There is no substitute for this experience, and as Canadians we must be very careful not to dismiss or devalue this experience just because we are not getting it ourselves. I hope I didn't create the impression in my earlier post that we can turn up our noses at the suffering and experience of our US comrades, whether they be "jarheads" or "doggies". As soldiers ourselves, regardless of our own political beliefs about US foreign policy, we need to take a moment to think about those troops.God bless them, I say. Cheers.

 

[Scott]

To expand on pbi's statement. I am a firefighter and I received schooling from one of the best institutions in the country, that didn't amount to a hill of beans the first time I took on a fire for real, outside the relative safety of the training grounds. Training lays the framework for a person, police officer, soldier, firefighter, etc. but in no way is it a replacement for hands on experience. You can't truly simulate war, fire or a bad guy pointing a gun at you, sorry.

We still need the best training we can get, again, there is a frame work laid, but how you effectively use that training to aid you in your experiences sets you and the amateurs apart. I know plenty of guys in the fire service who have had the same training I had but have not been lucky (lack of better term) enough to fight a good fire, I know they're trained, but that's it, I still don't know if they are going to turn tail and run when things get hot and nasty and this guy doesn't have an instructor there telling him it's OK, can he handle the pressure? I have also worked with plenty of guy who have had the training and a bit of experience but as soon as you throw something at them they they were not expecting they are useless.

Maybe I went off thread a bit, but you can see my points.

Just thoughts

Cheers

 

[pbi]

scott1nsh: A good parallel. I was (briefly) a volunteer firefighter myself, while I was living in the US (Hydrant man on an engine company). Despite the fact that we were protecting a suburban county with hundreds of thousands of residents, hospitals, schools and one of the biggest malls in the US, I found that the "training" I got as a "trainee" was pathetic and certainly inspired absolutely no confidence in me. (to be fair it was all "OJT"- I never got loaded onto the County Academy course)   I remember that the one organized drill night I attended was a farce: I could have taught the damn class better by myself. Pretty scary when you consider that we were responding, along with about twelve other volunteer departments in the County with the same apparatus to the same calls and hazards as paid men would in a city. A fire is a fire, and an extrication is an extrication, volunteer or paid.

Training is not the be-all, although it is vital. Nothing replaces experience, which in my opinion is why we need to keep in close touch with armies that are engaging in combat ops. The best mistakes to learn from are somebody else's. Cheers.

 

[Scott]

pbi, you're right and thanks.

Training is not the one answer although I call it a necessary evil. Necessary: it's obvious why. Evil: guys get out of training and think that they know it all. Also you have the scattered sort who goes on to take every course known to man and beast yet still can't put it all together outside of a discussion. We have one such type with us right now, the guy does training and proctoring of fire courses. You have to be pretty damn good at the books in order to be selected to do this, I can verify that. But herein lies a problem. This guy is great, second to none, practically a god when it comes to the books, yet he has not seen a real big worker (fire) So, around the coffee table he likes to dissect what the latest run sheets have said, this annoys me to no end because he is going by the book....the book has never been 100% right on any call I have been to. My point is, training only carries you so far, you can only use it as a crutch for so long. Eventually you are going to have to get in and get dirty, if you don't, or fail to perform while doing so then guess what, all that training is pretty much useless.

In the fire service I look at it like this: Those who can't do, teach. Those who can neither do nor teach, proctor.

I am sorry if I hijacked the thread for firefighting talk.

Just thoughts.