Has anyone tried the NORINCO M14

[BITTER PPLCI CPL]

I'm thinking of purchasing one of these along with thier version of the SIG P226 from marstar.ca. > > >

 

[Expat]

Well if their m14 is about as good as their SKS. You will be firing 3 round bursts after about 700 rounds. (They are crap)

 

[NavyShooter]

Hello Bitter PPCLI Cpl,

I'll jump in on this one.

There are two types of M-14 clones floating around.  There's the ones that Century brought in around 1990ish, which are truly crap, then there's the new ones being brought in now by Marstar.

I have one of the Marstar rifles, and it's a damn fine shooter.

With Good quality match grade ammo, it prints groups at around 1.25" at 100meters.  With surplus ammo, it puts in around 2-2.5" groups at the same range.

Reliability is very good, durabilty is good.  Mine has fired more than 700 rounds, and does not ripple off bursts.

The newly made Norincos available from Marstar have a Forged receiver, like the original M-14's did.  It's been tested/compared against the receiver geometry of the original M-14, and is closer than the geometry of some Springfield Armoury receivers.  The hardness tests that I've viewed results of show Rockwell hardnesses as follows:

Rifle 1
Average: 47.7 HRC
Min: 47 HRC
Max: 48 HRC


Rifle 2
Average: 46.2 HRC
Min: 45 HRC
Max: 47 HRC


Rifle 3
Average: 47.2 HRC
Min: 46 HRC
Max: 48.5 HRC

These are within specs for the M-14.

An acquaintance of mine (Barney) has been testing headspace on these rifles, and as an average of over 50 rifles tested, the Norinco rifles have a headspace of between .010 and .013 over size, which is perfectly safe/fine.  When a USGI bolt is dropped into the Norinco Receiver, it brings the headspace down to .002 on average, and TRW Bolts come down to .000, dead on for headspacing.

Out of the box, you really can't beat the M-305 for price, and such.  A great deal.

If you want to read more on it, visit www.canadiangunnutz.com and have a look in the "Main Battle Rifle" Section.

NavyShooter

 

[1feral1]

I used to have a minty Winchester M14, a CA (for the M14 friendly - it had an original selector lock - no welds) which came out of OGT in about 1984. Before leaving for Austraila in 1994, I had consigned it to Wolverine out of Virden MB. The rifle was a great shooter, and I sure had fun for the 10 yrs that I owned it.

I have encountered the Springfield Armory M1A on a few occasions, and handled the Chi-Com counterfit, but never shot it. I would find anything copied on inferior eqpt substandard to the original. If I bought another (can't own such here anyways), I would go the M1A, and steer clear of the Chi-Com stuff.


Regards,

Wes

 

[Gunnerlove]

My friend bought a Norinco knock off and for $650 including the glass stock the value can't be beat.
Shoots fine and thats what really matters.

 

[NavyShooter]

Wesley,

The older Norinco M-14's definitely had metal hardness issues, not to mention headspace issues.

The new crop of stuff on the Canadian market (within the past 4-5 years) has seen a significant improvement from what was available a decade ago.

Visit the gunnutz site for more info and stuff on the pistols and rifles.

NS

 

[1feral1]

I will have a squizz. Thanks mate.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[pappy]

I'd like to think they are better now. I read an interesting comparison of the Norinco vs Springfield Armory then the Norincos first started to het the shops here in the US.
The Norinco didn't score too hot.  Well it did get hot, when it caught on fire.....  They torture tested both these rifles hard....
Fire was mainly due to the HUGE ammounts of Cosmoline Norinco uses, barrel got so hot it touched off the cosmoline soaked wood stock.
The major complaint was the quality of the steel in the bolts (bad head spacing new outta the box, got worse as firing progressed.... not a good thing)
Reciever steel quality was questionable too, with some reports of the barrel threads giving up the ghost, not a good thing either. 
Flash hider not aligned right, bullets hiting the bottom of the flash hider, they had pics showng copper streaks on the FH, not a good thing....

The reviewers comment was to swap out all the parts you could with USGI made, take the rifle in have a GOOD Gunsmith clean up the threads, re-head space and harden the steel, all of which is speady and time consuming.

Nirinco started jaming and failures to fire as the tests went along.

Springfield Armory, not a single problem....
The Springfield shot better as the firing went on, Norinco groups got worse as shooting went on...

At the end of the test the reviewer tossed the Norinco into a trash barrel and took a photo and said this is the proper place for the Norinco....

Beside the fact the Norinco uses slave labor

I own a SA M1A and have another on order the new SOCOM II

With any standard M1A a good bedding job will tighten up groups, they just shoot better once bedded.

I've held Norinco's in my hand, I'd never shoot one, they just didn't feel solid, craftmanship and tool marks looked sloppy.  Like I said maybe thier better these days, maybe not...

Anyone else know that Norinco imported more SKS's in the first 5 years they started importing them then the ENTIRE production run (100 years) of Winchester 94's in all calibers... Thats a lot of SKS's at that time retial on them was 75USD each....

 

[pappy]

if I remmber right they fired 5000 rds between the two rifles in one day!  That's a lot of shooting between a couple of guys.  I good quality rifle will last a lifetime, save the extra cash and get the best, you'll never be unhappy that way.

 

[1feral1]

Point of interest, currently the M14 Scout is being used by Australia, along with the SR-25, all within the SF community.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Expat]

I remember there were big problems with Norinco ar15's.

They were good base which could be cheaply upgraded with North American parts. There was only one exception and that was the barrel nut had a different thread size it used a metric system were as American uses imperial.  I shot the said rifle and it was quite nice but then the owner was a gun smith.

 

[Mineguy]

If youre gonna be ok with spending the cash I think its alot better to have a dealer find you a Springfield m1a(Thats NOT the same springfield armoury guys and company that made the m14s for the us govt, that was the original SA which was around a long long time until the late 60s I belive?).The best M14 are the H/R and TRW so i also hear from collectors. I believe the M1a is probably even made better and may shoot better then the original m14 from what ive heard but that might be from biased owners but depends on pers experiences i guess. The original M14s that norinco was selling in the early 90s, i believe if my memory serves me correct a certain quantity of them actually even has Us m14 marked original recivers (that had made their way from vietnam left behind, may have been even sandblasted) and all the rest of the parts were norinco and mixed US parts. I think I can remember seeing that in a century type magasine from Montreal, quebec around 1991, the company folded around 93'94 ("international firearms"??-same place the mohawks bought their 100 norinco aks and RPks with the visa gold card and no questions were asked) . If you could get one of those, i think you could build a legal SA (not CA) M14 from all US parts and thats the next best thing to a real m14 which you cant own without CA grandfather clause and if you wont settle for an M1a or dont like the norinco and or a dewat either(which defeats the purpose if yopu wanna shoot it). Only thing is price, dewat m14 (500 bucks), working m14 Full or CA (650-1500 depending who is selling it), norinco (375?)...M1a(1500-2000+) and depending which model you want and what you want on it! Problem in canada is most guys dont have CA so they cant own a real m14 , only an m1a or a dewat.

A word of warning though, be careful when dealing with marstar(maybe hes gotten better?). Hold them exactly to what you agreed on and paid for and dont let them take their time with the deal or any other suspicious activity.Make a log of all calls and keep receipts. I sold them a pile of pistols (around 20 some pretty rare) and the guy said they were worth this and that price, then i saw them advertised for alot more on his site!!   He took near on 1 year or more to change over registration on 2 of them till i had to cause crap myself with the firearms center to get it done so i wouldnt be caught past that date when you had to have everything registered on, i belive i had it done hours before on the last day!!

Just my 2 cents.

 

[NavyShooter]

I have a copy of that "Torture test" of the Norinco vs M1A.

The Norinco died after about 480 or so rounds, the SA fired about 5000.

I have electronic copies around (and the hard-copy too if I can find it) if you'd like copies of that article.

Notwithstanding that, the new production M-14's from Norinco are of considerably better pedigree than the ones that are in the US.  Recall, the US still has an import ban from China, so they haven't even seen the new production rifles that we have up here.

What can I say, I am quite pleased with mine, and while there are a few rough edges, it's worth a lot more than the $480 or so you'll pay for it (delivered, inc taxes) and with the recent quality control problems with Springield Armoury rifles, they are worth a lot less than the ~$2000 or so that they seem to be going for.

(Remember, SA is now producing the rifles completely...no more surplus parts from old M-14's to use, so they're contracting out the production of all the parts they use, most of which are cast.  The receivers are now made in Canada, and a lot of the other parts are rumored to be made in Brazil.)

NS

 

[pappy]

as far as I know no M1A where made on surplus recievers in the US, ATF no-no, all the other parts are ok except fo the Full auto parts.  Imigine when the M14's where goverment issue they cost the US Gov't less then 100USD, but then of course they bought in bulk ha ha.  The US sold, well gave CONEX boxes full of M14's to the IDF as well as other allies.

I think the US Marked Norinco's where not made from left over parts from the VN war, although they copied the rifle directly, The Chi-com goverment purposely marked them that way and used to supply them to the Rebels in the Philippines.  That way any that where captured wheren't traced back the China. Since the US supplied M14's the the PI Goverment forces.  Made it simpler for the rebels to resupply from goverment stocks, same ammo, same mags, etc

The M1A scout is a tad longer then the SOCOM version isn't it? 18" barrel on the Scout, 16.5" on the SOCOM, maybe OZ got the smaller barrels too.  US SF units are issuing the SOCOM versions, not quite the same as the civilian one, since Uncle Sam lets them use the Full auto versions.... Civilian ones still semi-auto only.  Heard though the grape line the full-auto SOCOM don't have any muzzle climb on FA, but a little downward push from the new design muzzle brake.

SOCOM 16 = same "Scout" type barrel mounted scope mount.
SOCOM II = uses a 1913 style rail system, full lenght top rail, smaller rails on the sides and bottom.

 

[Fdtrucker]

Bought the M305 (Norinco M-14 from Marstar in 2003) while I at the fires in BC that year. Was unable to take it to the range due courses and pre-deployment trg in 04. Though I sold it to friend because i bought the Springfield Armoury M-1 Garand in 308 (7.62 x 51) he has had no difficulties firing it at the range.

 

[NavyShooter]

Ok,

I found a bunch of info from this site:

http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/

Specifically this link on the page: 

M-14 Rifle History and Development

http://www.imageseek.com/m1a/M14RHD1228public.rtf

Worth a read if you have a few minutes and are interested in the M-14...a whack of info on current production stuff.

NavyShooter

Origin of Chinese M14 Rifles

A persistent rumor states that M14 rifles produced by the People's Republic of China were reverse engineered from enemy captured M14 rifles in Viet Nam. 4 China North Industries Corporation, known as Norinco, is reported to have produced M14 rifles by the early 1970s. 5 The story continues that 100,000 Chinese M14 rifles were produced for an armed revolution in the Philippines. 6 In preparing for this work, the author interviewed a very reliable source with extensive firsthand knowledge of Chinese and Taiwanese production and export of small arms was interviewed for this work.  This gentleman wishes not to be identified.  He is referred to as Other Source # 12.

It was policy of the Chinese government until 1978 to export Marxist revolution to the world's masses, much like the former Soviet Union tried to do during its reign in eastern Europe into western Asia.  This policy changed dramatically in 1978 when Deng Xiaoping assumed leadership in China.  After 1978, the Chinese government pursued economic development and trade for the country, whereas before they promoted and supported communist dissident movements around the globe.  In the late 1960s, the Chinese government reverse engineered the design for the U. S. Rifle M14 from weapons captured in Viet Nam.  100,000 M14 rifles and the necessary magazines and ammunition were produced by the Chinese for export to arm rebels in other countries.  These Chinese select fire M14 rifles were made to look just like captured American M14 rifles including even the serial numbers.  The Chinese government went so far as to produce 7.62x51 mm NATO ammunition identical to British issue ammunition, though with corrosive primers.  This 7.62x51 mm NATO faux British-headstamped Chinese made ammunition was exported to the United States and sold on the commercial market in the 1980s.  The rifles and ammunition were manufactured with U. S. and British markings so as to avoid any connection to the People's Republic of China, and possibly to serve a role in disinformation (propaganda) campaigns for the planned uprising.

The Communist Chinese government made two attempts to ship its select fire M14 rifles to the Philippines.  The first attempt was largely unsuccessful and the second was a total failure.  In 1971, Jose Maria Sison, founding chairman of the Communist Party of the Philippines, chose Ricardo S. Malay, then a columnist for the Manila Chronicle, to arrange the delivery of weapons from China to the New People's Army in anticipation of an armed uprising against Ferdinand Marcos.  Malay and his family therefore made their way to China in July, 1971.  Malay and his family were later joined in China by Sison's closest colleague, Ibara Tubianosa, and four other individuals.  Certain arrangements were made to package 1,200 of the rifles with magazines, a quantity of ammunition, and other military items.  The cargo was soon thereafter loaded onto the ship MV Karagatan.  The ship and its cargo sailed from the Chinese naval base at Swatoy headed for Digoyo Bay, Isabela Province, Philippines.  However, the Philippine armed forces intercepted the shipment.  The New People's Army fighters, led by Victor Corpus, were waiting for the delivery.  A firefight ensued between the New People's Army fighters, led by Victor Corpus, who were waiting for the delivery and the Philippine troops.  The NPA was only able to salvage only 200 of the 1,200 M14 rifles and little of the other military equipment Mao Zedong had approved as aid to the Philippine revolution.

In 1973, Sison tasked Malay to attempt another delivery of M14 rifles from China to the Philippines.  He proposed that the Chinese prepare a shipment of M14 rifles in watertight packages to be dropped off the Pangasinan coast for recovery by scuba divers.  Months later in December, 1973, Malay and Tubianosa flew to Sanya, Hainan.  Hainan is the southernmost island of China.  Sanya is the capital of Hainan as well as the location of a Chinese naval base.  When Malay and Tubianosa arrived at Sanya, they were briefed by a Chinese military officer regarding the packaging of the M14 rifles.  The rifles were vacuum packed inside reinforced plastic bags with three rifles to a sack.  Each sack also contained ammunition.  The Chinese military officer had a team that had previously tested the packaging to make sure it would hold in the ocean environment.  Malay and Tubianosa flew to Beijing the next day.  The ship MV Andrea, with four crewmembers, was assigned to transport the M14 rifles and eight New People's Army fighters to the Philippine Pangasinan coast.  Enroute to Sanya, the ship struck a reef somewhere in the Pratas Islands of the South China Sea.  The twelve men aboard (four crewmembers and the eight New Peoples Army fighters) the stranded vessel were picked up and taken to Hong Kong by a passing Hong Kong salvage ship, the Oriental Falcon.  In exchange for passage to Hong Kong, the Oriental Falcon was allowed to keep the MV Andrea for scrap.  After a stay in a Hong Kong jail, the Filipino New Peoples Army fighters were released due to intervention of the Chinese Red Cross and the ship's Chinese crew was quickly moved to the Chinese mainland.

In the early 1980s, Other Source # 12 traveled to China.  He was shown the remainder of the approximately 100,000 Chinese manufacture select fire M14 rifles.  The Chinese M14 rifles were packed in crates in one warehouse while the British-marked, Chinese produced 7.62x51 mm NATO ammunition was stored in a separate warehouse.  Some time after this, the select fire M14 rifles were disassembled and only the receivers were destroyed.  Since there were no furnaces or ovens in the local vicinity for melting steel, the receivers were mixed with concrete to make concrete blocks for building projects.  The parts from the select fire M14 rifles were later exported to the United States as M14 parts kits for use by Federal Ordnance and other companies to build rifles with American made receivers.  The ammunition was exported as well to the United States for commercial sale. 

Norinco and Polytech Industries

M14 type rifles exported to the United States from China have been stamped as two brands, Polytech Industries and Norinco.  Polytech Industries is a subsidiary of the People's Liberation Army.  Reportedly, Norinco is a Ministry of Ordnance Industries entity consisting of 150 individual factories associated together for marketing purposes. 7 Norinco is a government owned conglomerate of factories producing many kinds of military ordnance. 8 However, Other Source # 12 explained what Norinco is in another way.  Norinco was set up as a committee decades ago to supply war materials to prosecute the war in Viet Nam against the United States.  Viet Nam was heavily dependent upon China during the war.  After the change in government policy in 1978, there was no military need for Norinco.  So, Norinco was turned into an export corporation since Chinese arms factories cannot sell directly to anyone but the Chinese government.  Thus, Norinco has exported small arms and ammunition for sale in the commercial market of various countries since the 1980s.

Production of Chinese M14 Type Rifles

All Chinese semi-automatic M14 rifle receivers and new (post-1978) production parts for them have been manufactured at State Arsenal 356 in Yunnan Province, People's Republic of China.  Yunnan Province is in southwest China and borders the nations of Laos and the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam.  All Chinese M14 type receivers are drop forged.  Norinco has made select fire and semi-automatic only M14 type rifles.  Norinco also produced a semi-automatic M14 known as the M305.  There were two versions of the M305.  Type I was assembled with a standard stock and flash suppressor and Type II featured a pistol grip stock and a stabilizer similar to the M14E2.  Chinese semi-automatic M14 rifles have been exported to Canada, New Zealand, Norway and the United States for sale to private owners.  The Chinese rifles exported to New Zealand are stamped M14 on the receiver heel and have had the selector lug cut off.  Rifles marked M305 have been exported to Canada and Norway.  A small number of Norinco select fire M14 rifles are available for sale in the United States as post-'86 ban dealer samples.

Chinese M14 Type Rifle Export to the United States

There have been three importers of Chinese M14 type rifles into the United States: 1) Keng's Firearms (Stone Mountain, GA) 2) Century Arms International (St. Albans, VT) and 3) CJA (Southfield, MI).  The Chinese M14 type rifles were imported from 1988 until September, 1994.  As shown on an ATF Form 6 related to one of these export shipments, the cost of a Polytech Industries M14S was $225.00 in 1989.

Keng's Firearms

Keng's Firearms (Stone Mountain, GA) imported Polytech Industries M14 type rifles.  Keng's Firearms was the only company that imported Chinese M14 type rifles (Polytech Industries M14/S models) into the United States before the March 14, 1989 ban on importing military-lookalike semi-automatic rifles.  This event is commonly referred to as the "1989 import ban."  The Chinese M14 (Polytech Industries M14/S) rifles first appeared in the United States as part of the Keng's Firearms exhibit at the January, 1988 SHOT Show.

Tim LaFrance noted that he had a concern with the Chinese bolts after examining the Polytech Industries rifles at the 1988 SHOT Show.  He suggested to Keng's Firearms that these rifles be evaluated because of his concern with the bolts.  Consequently, Polytech Industries representatives from the People's Republic of China contacted Smith Enterprise, Inc. shortly thereafter to discuss the manufacturing of M14 rifles.  Representatives from Polytech Industries met for five days with Smith Enterprise personnel, with David Keng of Keng's Firearms acting as translator.  The Polytech Industries representatives were supplied with a set of USGI drawings for the M14.

After this first meeting, Polytech Industries sent raw forgings and assembled M14 rifles (Polytech serial numbers 00001 through 00005) to Smith Enterprise for evaluation and testing.  Ron Smith personally test fired these first five Polytech Industries M14 type rifles.  Smith Enterprise thoroughly examined and tested the Polytech Industries receivers and rifles.  The receivers were found through spectrum analysis to be made of the Chinese equivalent of AISI 8620 alloy steel, the proper material for M14 receivers.  The bolts, however, were not made of the correct steel alloy.

The testing included hardness testing of the Polytech Industries receiver core by cutting it apart.  One Polytech Industries receiver was tested to destruction by loading ammunition to create excessively high chamber pressure.  The reader MUST NOT exceed powder charges as listed in reputable reloading manuals if hand loaded ammunition is used.  Personal injury or death may occur if done so.  The very first Polytech Industries receivers were very hard, harder than a file, which left them without the toughness provided by the relatively soft core of receivers made according to USGI specifications.  The Chinese quickly corrected this by strictly adhering to the receiver heat treatment procedure. 

After Smith Enterprise completed the evaluation, a second meeting of the parties involved was held.  Even after this second meeting, Polytech Industries did not correct all the concerns of Smith Enterprise and Keng's Firearms had regarding the Chinese bolt.  Specifically, 1) the bolt locking lugs were too narrow 2) the carburizing and hardness remained unsatisfactory because State Arsenal 356 did not change the material to equivalent AISI 8620 steel but continued to use steel equivalent to AISI 4135.  This was in spite of the fact that Keng's Firearms offered to supply USGI M14 bolts until Polytech Industries could manufacture its own bolts according to USGI specifications.  Polytech Industries refused this offer from Keng's Firearms.  The Chinese never changed the bolt material for M14 type rifles exported to the United States. 

Century Arms International

Century Arms International (St. Albans, VT) imported both completed Polytech Industries rifles and Norinco M14 type rifles and receivers.  Norinco rifles imported by Century Arms International had the least aesthetic appeal of all the Chinese M14 type rifles imported into the United States.  Typically, the chu wood stocks are serviceable but not pleasing to the eye.  The flash suppressors were cut just forward of the front sight to comply with the March 14, 1989 ban.  The Polytech Industries rifles had better looking chu wood stocks and finish.  Some, if not all, Polytech Industries M14S and Norinco M14 Sporter rifles imported by Century Arms International have serial numbers with a letter C followed by a hyphen and four digits, e.g., C-0640.  Some of the Chinese receivers sold by Century Arms International were stamped at State Arsenal 356 in Yunnan Province and the rest were stamped by Century Arms International.  Century Arms International imported the Chinese rifles some time after 1990.

CJA

The third importer, CJA (Southfield, MI) imported Chinese rifles for a short time just prior to September 13, 1994.  The stamping CJA SLFD MICH appears on some Norinco rifles and the marking IDE USA SLFD MICH appears on some Polytech Industries receivers.  CJA imported the best looking Chinese M14 rifles into the United States.  Representatives from CJA traveled to State Arsenal 356 in China to discuss the assembly process of the M14 type rifles it wished to import.  These rifles were assembled with walnut stocks and new production parts with a very good finish.

Chinese M14 Type Rifle Export to Canada

Marstar (Vankleek Hill, Ontario) at present imports Norinco M305 rifles into Canada.  The Norinco M305 rifles imported by Marstar have the slotted flash suppressor and scope mount recoil lug.  The fit and finish of Norinco M305 rifles entering Canada today are judged to be better than that found on the 1980s and 1990s rifles exported to the United States.  Reportedly, USGI bolts fit properly in these post-'00 production Norinco M305 rifles.  The bolt hardness is also higher than bolts exported to the United States before 1994.

Chinese Receivers

There is no substantial difference between Norinco and Polytech Industries receivers although Smith Enterprise found the surface hardness to vary from 41 to 60 HRC without regard to marking.  Smith Enterprise, Inc. has done extensive inspection, and non-destructive testing, and destructive examination of Chinese receivers.  These inspections and tests have verified that Chinese M14 receivers are made of AISI 8620 equivalent alloy steel.  Chinese receivers are drop forged into forms of larger bulk and less definition than the USGI receivers were.  Then, like the American manufacturers, machine tools cut away at the metal from the raw forging to create the final desired shape before carburizing and heat treatment.
Chinese receivers are not made of high carbon alloy steel such as AISI 52100 or other such high chromium alloy steel.  Equivalent AISI 5100 series steel is high carbon (1.0 to 1.1 %) alloy steel that is much too hard for a rifle receiver.  Because it is a high carbon steel that is thorough hardened it lacks toughness and ductility needed for the M14 type rifle.  AISI 52100 alloy steel is the most commonly used steel for bearings.  The machinability rating is 40 % when in the spheroidized annealed and cold drawn condition as compared to 100 % for AISI 1112 steel.  It is difficult to machine and must be quenched below room temperature to form martensite.  Smith Enterprise did some surface hardness testing of Chinese receivers in 1999.  The results varied from 41 to 60 HRC.  Soft receivers can be brought up to USGI specification by nitrocarburizing treatment.
Chinese receivers have a threaded hole for a setscrew in the barrel ring.  The Chinese rifles are built with a setscrew threaded far enough through the barrel ring to contact the barrel.  The barrel setscrew is unnecessary for securing the barrel in the receiver.  However, the Chinese manufactured their receivers this way because it is their psychological mindset. 9

Markings of Exported Chinese M14 Type Rifles

Early U. S. import Polytech Industries and Norinco manufacturer and model markings are marked on the receiver heel.  Heel markings have been observed on Polytech Industries M14/S rifles with serial numbers as high as 028XX.  Serial numbers of Chinese M14 rifles are usually stamped above the stock line on the scope mount side, below and slightly behind the rear sight elevation knob.  A typical Chinese export M14 is Norinco serial number 9914.  The serial number is stamped on the left hand side of the receiver and electro penciled on the left receiver leg.  There are no other markings on the receiver.  The importer markings, Century Arms in this case, are stamped on the barrel.  A very few Norinco rifles imported into the United States have no manufacturer stamping whatsoever.  Norinco M14 type rifle model numbers are M-14, M14 Sporter and M305.  Some Norinco M14 type rifles have the marking CJA SFLD MICH on the side of the receiver.  This marking has been found on Norinco M14 type rifles imported into both the United States and Canada.  The Polytech Industries model number is denoted M14S or M14/S.  Polytech Industries rifles have a better reputation for receiver surface machining and finish as compared to the Norinco stamped rifles.

The following serial numbers have been observed on Norinco and Polytech Industries M14 type rifles in the United States:

Norinco M-14, M14 Sporter - 00006 to 960XX for Century Arms International imports with some receivers having a letter C prefix, e.g., C08610.

Polytech Industries M14/S, M14S - 00001 to 25XXX for KFS and CJA/IDE imports and C-1245 for Century Arms International imports

 

[BITTER PPLCI CPL]

What about the Springfield M1A Scout, has anyone tried this. There 2 firearms I'm going for, SIG 226 (9mm or .40 S&W) and an M14 style rifle, just can't decide!

 

[1feral1]

We are using the M14 Scout right now, but in the SF role in Iraq. I was told there was consideration of the L1A1 SLR (our 'C1' rifle) to come back into service, but the lack of parts was an issue, and the remainder of the rifles were destroyed late last year.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Jay4th]

B PPCLI CPL,  If the price is right (and it is) Buy both the 226 copy and the 305.
I am probably the most staunch advocate of Norinco firearms having owned and sold more than 100 of them. Admitedly most were SKS 'd" models.  Yes they use slave labor, yes the firearms are cheap.  Inexpensive Norinco firearms probably bring more people to the shooting community than any other manufacturer. Anyone got any data?
I have owned both the old norinco clone M14 and the newer 305 and the newer are clearly superior in all ways.  Navyshooter is a wealth of knowledge on several boards. Always take his advice seriously.
The 226 copy is cheap, looks cheap, feels cheap. You can fix its bearing surfaces with some emery cloth in a couple of mins.  It is the cheapest way into a double action and 9mm is the only economical way to go.
    KevB is going to crap all over me any second cause he wont even let Norinco guns into the house. He is right to do so. Soon you will outstrip the ability of your norincos. Sell them and upgrade.
      Others will look down their noses at you, to hell with them. You can still afford ammo.  :threat:

 

[Britney Spears]

Yes they use slave labor,

A minor hijack if you will, is there any actual documented evidence of this, or is it just another gun magazine rumor? I've seen it thrown around since I was born but it doesn't really make any sense.  The manufacture of rifles does require some degree of skill with medium-heavy machinery,  and China isn't exactly lacking in cheap, skilled labour. I can't see any economic reason why this would be the case.

Also WES CHECK PM!!!!! *waves frantically*