GREAT interview clip with PM Trudeau - Reporter smackdown on FLQ crisis

[Michael Dorosh]

Well, the prime minister has to deal with other issues besides the military. Couldn't we redirect blame onto a senior military leadership that failed to adapt to the political realities and tailor their requests accordingly?

> 

They were busy men with other issues besides equipment procurement.  They served their country in other ways.

 

[TCBF]

"Well, the prime minister has to deal with other issues besides the military. Couldn't we redirect blame onto a senior military leadership that failed to adapt to the political realities and tailor their requests accordingly"

- If you have men dying when their aircraft fall out of the sky and you need $45,000,000 in parts to keep them flying, how does "Tailoring your "requests accordingly" diminish the fact that you need $45,000,000 dollars?

"The ship is sinking - we need a plug!"

"No.  Try wording it differently..."

Golly...

Tom

 

[x westie]

He performed a very difficult yet essential job during one of the most turbulent periods in modern Canadian history, and did so with grace and panache. While the same could very generally be said about the military personnel of this era, the main difference between the two parties is that even after his death he is still being slandered and denigrated by the latter.

Your not having respect for a dead Canadian prime minister says infinitely more about you then it ever could about him.

            Looks to me Null, that you spend too much time reading Liberal Party propaganda,or Liberal party B.S. meetings, your hero Trudeau treated ordinary Canadians with contempt and arrogance, you probably weren't even in this world when he was Prime Minister,

 

[nULL]

"If you have men dying when their aircraft fall out of the sky and you need $45,000,000 in parts to keep them flying, how does "Tailoring your "requests accordingly" diminish the fact that you need $45,000,000 dollars?"

I highly doubt any government department - let alone defence - was so efficient as to make the above scenario a reality. Order less of one thing to free up funds for the other - or were there not enough officers at NDHQ to do that? Isn't adapt and overcome and improvisation the way the forces traditionally deals with challenges?

We made it through the days of the FLQ and slashed defence budgets; it would certainly appear that everyone concerned did their jobs well, or at least adequetely, and given their respective difficulties we should at least give them credit for that.

Looks to me Null, that you spend too much time reading Liberal Party propaganda,or Liberal party B.S. meetings, your hero Trudeau treated ordinary Canadians with contempt and arrogance, you probably weren't even in this world when he was Prime Minister,

I think it's fair to say he treated idiots as such.
I'm sorry you were offended.

 

[TCBF]

"I highly doubt any government department - let alone defence - was so efficient as to make the above scenario a reality. Order less of one thing to free up funds for the other - or were there not enough officers at NDHQ to do that? Isn't adapt and overcome and improvisation the way the forces traditionally deals with challenges?

We made it through the days of the FLQ and slashed defence budgets; it would certainly appear that everyone concerned did their jobs well, or at least adequetely, and given their respective difficulties we should at least give them credit for that."

- Wow, another answer without answering the question - no wonder you admire Trudeau.

Now, again, explain your concept of "Tailor their requests accordingly."

 

[nULL]

I'm out of my lane here (not being privy to the intricacies of equipment aquisition) but sure, I'll bite.

By "tailor their requests", I meant that NDHQ would study the political climate of the country at the time and recognize that if they approached their masters on the Hill with a long, expensive list of items, all would be subject to intense scrutiny.

Rather, a far more modest list of requirements would be drawn up with the intent of preserving existing skill-sets and capabilities so that in the future, when fortunes and budgets change, adoption of "new" equipment is more straight-forward.

By doing their own pruning, as opposed to letting the politicians do it, the forces could keep give up less and get away with more (in theory).



 
     

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I'm out of my lane here (not being privy to the intricacies of equipment aquisition) but sure, I'll bite.

By "tailor their requests", I meant that NDHQ would study the political climate of the country at the time and recognize that if they approached their masters on the Hill with a long, expensive list of items, all would be subject to intense scrutiny.
     

HUH????  The Army is supposed to tailor their needs not to combat capability but to what the prissy desk jockeys in Ottawa imagine they would need?  It works the other way around, I think. The government sets a clear mandate to what it wants its Forces to do, then the Forces tell them what it will cost.  I think the argument here is that Trudeau had no mandate as far as that went, and only grudgingly acquiesced to keeping a brigade in NATO as one of our commitments.  Other commitments, like national security and sovereignty, went out the window. And this is somehow the fault of the generals, because they actually asked for what they needed????

 

[nULL]

[quote
I think the argument here is that Trudeau had no mandate as far as that went, and only grudgingly acquiesced to keeping a brigade in NATO as one of our commitments.  Other commitments, like national security and sovereignty, went out the window. And this is somehow the fault of the generals, because they actually asked for what they needed????
[/quote]


From the Foreign Affairs website:

The radical measure of moving Canada into the camp of non-aligned nations was rejected, but Canada's defence priorities were ranked as follows: the defence of sovereignty, the defence of North America, NATO and peacekeeping.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cacheOI6YDj9_jkJ:www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/hist/canada9-en.asp+national+defence+budget+trudeau+years&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1

 

[JBP]

From the Foreign Affairs website:

The radical measure of moving Canada into the camp of non-aligned nations was rejected, but Canada's defence priorities were ranked as follows: the defence of sovereignty, the defence of North America, NATO and peacekeeping.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cacheOI6YDj9_jkJ:www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/hist/canada9-en.asp+national+defence+budget+trudeau+years&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1

Yeah.... What they say, and what they do.... And back then just as now we barely have enough equipment and manpower in the Forces to maintain sovereignty and can't do much to contribute to the defence of North America as a whole. That statement holds about as much water as a desert.

nULL.... You, as am I, are way out of your lane. You may have done some reading, but these men lived through the ages of the PM we've been speaking, and, he bled the Forces and a good chunk of the country really. End of debate.

 

[Hot Lips]

Like yah say...like him or not...he had a style of his own...

HL

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Like yah say...like him or not...he had a style of his own...

HL

So did Jack the Ripper, what's your point?

 

[2 Cdo]

Like yah say...like him or not...he had a style of his own...

That was just one of his many problems!  :threat: All style with no substance, possibly one of the WORST PM's we ever had.

 

[time expired]

I would like to add a couple of facts to this discussion of the Trudeau years,he was voted in a land slide
because he represented the canadian mood in the late 60s,anti american,anti British and anti establishment,
he was also anti military which certainly fitted in well with the zeit geist of those times.
Trudeaus left wing interlectual dreams saw a neautral Canada allied with other non commited countries
India etc..This plan involved pulling out of both NORAD and NATO and this is when these dreams ran
head on into real politik,pulling out of NORAD would have caused a serious reaction from the USA and
this reaction would had dangerous consequencies for Canadas northern souvreinty.NATO was another
matter his idea was to ease Canada out by reducing our nearly 7000 man brigade intergrated into 2nd
Brit. inf. Div. to a 2800 man so called battle group moved south intergrated and supported by no one.
This also ran into problems, as Britain had just indicated it would soon be joining the EU and as Canada
would be losing an important trading partner,Trudeau can cap in hand to the EU ministers meeting
to be told ,by Helmut Schmidt I believe,that the EU and NATOwere the same countries and would  not
be too keen on trading with a NATO member who was not pulling its weight.This resulted in the rent
a tank program and a gradual increase in the force strenth of the Canadian NATO contingent.
            What is my point,I hear you all asking,well I believe Trudeau did a great deal of harm to Canadas
standing in the eyes of its former allies and friends,he did immesurable damage to Canadas armed
forces his immigration policies damaged  Canadas social fabrik and on top of all that the man was a
complete hypocrite,his condemnation of the US Veitnam policies while making sure Canadian factories
where going fullblast producing for the US military,also his use of the military in the Quebec crisis
more akin to a military junta than a democratic government.My conclusion the man was a charlatan.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

his condemnation of the US Veitnam policies while making sure Canadian factories (were) going fullblast producing for the US military

Explain, please.

 

[George Wallace]

Michael

Although I found a lot of his rant a little off, the part that you have closed in on is quite true.  Canada was making money hand over fist producing munitions, weapons parts, instruments and precision parts for the US "War Machine".  Canadian Universities were conducting research in many fields of medicine, aerospace, weapons, etc.  We had the CIA conducting psychological experiments at McGill.  We also had Gerald Bull conducting experiments with ballistics and artillery.  Canada was, and still is, one of the world's leaders in Defence Research.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Michael

Although I found a lot of his rant a little off, the part that you have closed in on is quite true.  Canada was making money hand over fist producing munitions, weapons parts, instruments and precision parts for the US "War Machine".  Canadian Universities were conducting research in many fields of medicine, aerospace, weapons, etc.  We had the CIA conducting psychological experiments at McGill.  We also had Gerald Bull conducting experiments with ballistics and artillery.  Canada was, and still is, one of the world's leaders in Defence Research.

Thanks, just wondering specifically what though - I just look at a lot of our "kit" from 1970 to the 1990s and see that much Canadian equipment was in fact US designed if not manufactured - ie cast-off M-1 helmets, PRC-25 radios (77 Set), MLVW (license built in Canada and different from the 10 wheel M-35 the US used), M-113, etc.  On the face of it, it seemed at first blush the other way around.

 

[George Wallace]

Remember Linton Instruments (SP)?  They made parts for the radios, guidance systems, etc.  We actually made a lot of the 'insides' of much of their equipment.  I think we even produced many of the M72s in the day.

 

[time expired]

Micheal
Thanks for your comments on my rant, which parts did you find "off"not my awful spelling I hope, if so I
will try better in future.
As far as feeding the US war machine was concerned I read in  an article in either Macleans or Newsweek, this was many moon ago,that Canada suplied large amounts of 7.62 ammo,equally large amounts of 155
arty shells and jet engines for Boeing Vertol helicopters.

 

[dapaterson]

Forty one years ago today, James Cross, trade commissioner from Great Britain, was kidnapped by FLQ terrorists.

Je me souviens.